Discipline Versus Creativity

[Aldo Marchand]

What do you think is most important ?

Creativity to find new paths or discipline to improve what already exists in terms of skills and knowledge.

[Extreme Z7]

You cannot have creativity if you have no discipline. Creativity requires as little distraction as possible.

[Aldo Marchand]

2 minutes ago, MaxWare1997 said:

You cannot have creativity if you have no discipline. Creativity requires as little distraction as possible.

But we can agree that' s also possible to only work with existing content and have a lack of creative power ?

Edited February 10, 2016 by Aldo Marchand

[Extreme Z7]

@Aldo Marchand I actually see discipline and creativity in sort of an opposite perspective as you. I see discipline as a means to prevent yourself from getting stuck and giving the ability to find new paths whereas being creative means creating something new with what you presently know. It is impossible to create something with content that you have not yet discovered. Working with existing content is creative power.

But that's just what I personally think. I would say discipline and creativity support each other very much.

[Aldo Marchand]

15 minutes ago, MaxWare1997 said:

@Aldo Marchand I actually see discipline and creativity in sort of an opposite perspective as you. I see discipline as a means to prevent yourself from getting stuck and giving the ability to find new paths whereas being creative means creating something new with what you presently know. It is impossible to create something with content that you have not yet discovered. Working with existing content is creative power.

But that's just what I personally think. I would say discipline and creativity support each other very much.

@MaxWare1997  I see this as a musical composer, when it is really possible to create things from nothing.

It can flow from inside out on an artistic level.

[jjer94]

Discipline: To brute-force something with the knowledge that it's supposed to benefit you. After a while on the self-actualization journey, this becomes less and less effective, because it requires lots of effort.

(True) Creativity: While in a state of not-knowing, to let the body and mind just do its thing, completely free from any ideas of future and past. Creativity in this way leads to the state of flow, which is akin to effortless functioning. 

That's my take on it, at least.

[Extreme Z7]

3 minutes ago, Aldo Marchand said:

@MaxWare1997  I see this as a musical composer, when it is really possible to create things from nothing.

It can flow from inside out on an artistic level.

I'm a music composer as well (but just a beginner). What you said about creating things from nothing really relates to me and I'm sure to other musicians as well. It always feels like musical ideas (and all other creative ideas) arise out of nowhere.

I guess the question for us is, does the creative generator thrive better with or without discipline?

[Aldo Marchand]

@MaxWare1997

I believe that for creating in music you have to allow de infinite to manifest through you skills, senses and knowledge.

As i see the discipline here can help this process by augmenting the lenght of the creative session.

Improvisation in music is the great proof of not having total control.

Some content rises from the inside, other ones are taken by influence.

[Aldo Marchand]

@MaxWare1997 @jjer94

Talking about creativity:

That's one of my compositions:

 

 

 

[Myke]

I love this topic.  I am going to lean in the direction of discipline though. The creativity that arises from emptiness is so fundamental that it seems to be even in the nature of ego to yearn for creativity.  All reality understood as the manifestation of a that which creates.  Discipline on the other hand seems to be more foreign a concept, requiring rules and even discomfort at times.  Without rigorous intention to build discipline one may never awaken to the creativity that is emerges, arises, and is let go with each breath, every single moment, regardless of your attention to it.  

[Aldo Marchand]

52 minutes ago, Myke said:

I love this topic.  I am going to lean in the direction of discipline though. The creativity that arises from emptiness is so fundamental that it seems to be even in the nature of ego to yearn for creativity.  All reality understood as the manifestation of a that which creates.  Discipline on the other hand seems to be more foreign a concept, requiring rules and even discomfort at times.  Without rigorous intention to build discipline one may never awaken to the creativity that is emerges, arises, and is let go with each breath, every single moment, regardless of your attention to it.  

@Myke

Your line of thinking is really close to my process.

I think discipline is useful to polish the content that is coming from nowhere.

In music we have improvisation skills that Allies both concepts in real time, when you get rid of use of knowledge and technical skills at the same time that the creative process is going on.

Othere great thing around that is the use os the senses like hearing and touching.

Everything is conected and flowing from inside out and outside in. 

[Guest Kingkong123]

When the imagination and the will are in conflict, the imagination always wins. Paraquote from "The power of conversational hypnosis"

[Anicko]

Who's rules are you following to discipline yourself? If you're having to force yourself to do something, obviously either the way you're doing it or the thing you're making yourself do isn't right for you on a core level. You are the only one who can figure that out. 

Just because some expert says that's how you do it does not make it true for everyone. I hate the word discipline. I hate rules that assume we are all too be sheep, doing things the same way. You can't find your true creativity if you don't get out of that stupid box and solve your problems using your own personal guidance system. 

[GodelEscherBach]

Hola Aldo

When I study piano, sometimes I get bored of doing scales and arpeggios or I may also get frustrated when trying to learn a difficult passage form a difficult piece like a Beethoven Sonata or a 4 part Fugue by Bach. Then my ego says 'fuck this' and I start improvising for hours, have lots of fun, play super fast (with poor technique) etc. Then two hours after that I get tired or bored from playing and my energy is depleted then I go to do something else or to sleep because I have to work at the next day. Then I go to the piano class and I am not as prepared as I should be because instead of studying music I was playing music. 

I know how much fun is to improvise, but you need discipline to progress. Otherwise is like going to the gym and only doing the fun machines instead of Squats, Deadlift and Bench press. Do you want to get strong? or do you want to have fun?

Is like the Ego needs to be entertained, the more you practice to focus on the homework the better you will get. 

However there is one exception, and that is inspiration. If you are truly inspired then composed the idea, write it down, work on it, when you get stuck, leave it for another day. You might finish your piece in your dreams  (lots of that in Psycho Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz)

 

[Ben Landrail]

What a ridicuoulus idea that music flows from nowhere. It doesn't. It flows from your training and all the music you've listened to. To compose means literally to combine a number musical ideas in a certain way, according to the rules of the genre/tradition. For instance, the composition posted here sounds very old school, like 17th-18th century music and is, to my ear, influenced by the Baroque and the Spanish classical guitar traditions. Doesn't sound like nowhere to me.  

As for the topic question, absolute creativity equals chaos, absolute discipline - rigidity. It's a tricky situation, but also very easy to understand using common sense. If you made your every day different from the others, that is, not repeating anything you did the day before, you would not be able to master any craft, and thus reach a good level in anything, let alone art. You need discipline to learn the tools and the rules of the game, to ensure that you progress, to actually sit down and finish your work and polish it. You also need discipline to make time for your creative endeavors. 

I think this is a false contraposition. We can theorize all we want, but to get practical results you must be both creative and disciplined.