Why have I created a reality in which animals kill and eat other animals?

[Flim]

@fridjonk Thank you!

[Flim]

@Forestluv Great point. That's something to think about for sure. So, what I'm getting from people's replies is that I'm putting a negative label on the nature of survival, because it threatens my ego. Is this accurate anyone who is reading?

[Carl-Richard]

20 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

“Why have I created a reality in which animals kill and eat other animals?”

Why did you create a reality in which your human cells kill and eat other cells? Cells in your immune system kill and eat bacterial cells everyday. Your immune cells also kill and eat your own cells.

That's actually a great way of cutting through the implicit anthropocentrism behind such concerns: what are predatory animals but a bunch of cells killing another bunch of cells?  

[Flim]

@Carl-Richard My ego is stubborn and stuggles to see such an existence of "a bunch of cells killing another bunch of cells" as anything other than pure nihilism. Have you heard of the term "optimistic nihilism"? What do you think of it?

[seeking_brilliance]

why did you create a reality where @Flim  realized they could rise above eating meat for survival?

[Carl-Richard]

45 minutes ago, Flim said:

@Carl-Richard My ego is stubborn and stuggles to see such an existence of "a bunch of cells killing another bunch of cells" as anything other than pure nihilism.

You call it nihilism because it seems meaningless for you, but I want you to notice how it can only be meaningless from a human survival perspective; a perspective which only sees meaning in the perpetuation of its own agenda. What is really meaningless about an infinitely complex dance of trillions of molecular machines, interacting with eachother and rearranging themselves and their environment in an ineffable display of creativity?

When I say "just a bunch of cells", I don't mean to be reductionistic or to subtract meaning from the equation. What I'm really saying is "but what about the cells?". The mistake would be to look at the phenomena of "animal" from a gross surface level view and forget the immense density of stuff happening at the micro and meta-macro levels. The mistake would be to not see the vast web of relationships in reality and how each part is dependent on the other. There is an absolute necessity in everything being just as it is, right now and forever. It's a perfect design.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[neovox]

Nothing actually  dies, but I think that's common knowledge round these parts. What isn't so  common is the peaceful bliss that is experienced upon release of form.  The pain the physical body endures leading up to the moment of death is not pleasant obviously,. but the release of consciousness is a divine transfer.   Consciousness time physical bodies is the more difficult.  unlimited consciousness taking up residence in the experience of a limited physical form. 

[Flim]

21 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You call it nihilism because it seems meaningless for you, but I want you to notice how it can only be meaningless from a human survival perspective; a perspective which only sees meaning in the perpetuation of its own agenda. What is really meaningless about an infinitely complex dance of trillions of molecular machines, interacting with eachother and rearranging themselves and their environment in an ineffable display of creativity?

When I say "just a bunch of cells", I don't mean to be reductionistic or to subtract meaning from the equation. What I'm really saying is "but what about the cells?". You're looking at the phenomena of "animal" from a gross surface level and forgetting the immense density of stuff happening at the micro and meta-macro levels. You're not looking at the vast web of relationships in reality and how each part is dependent on the other. There is a necessity of everything being as it is, right now, yesterday and forever.

I'm so glad I started this topic. I cannot negate anything you're saying here.

"I want you to notice how it can only be meaningless from a human survival perspective; a perspective which only sees meaning in the perpetuation of its own agenda" Right.

"You're looking at the phenomena of "animal" from a gross surface level and forgetting the immense density of stuff happening at the micro and meta-macro levels. You're not looking at the vast web of relationships in reality and how each part is dependent on the other. There is a necessity of everything being as it is, right now, yesterday and forever." Something I've got to work on.

[Flim]

@neovox "What isn't so  common is the peaceful bliss that is experienced upon release of form.  The pain the physical body endures leading up to the moment of death is not pleasant obviously,. but the release of consciousness is a divine transfer.   Consciousness time physical bodies is the more difficult.  unlimited consciousness taking up residence in the experience of a limited physical form." 

But how do you know this?

[Flim]

@seeking_brilliance I'm not sure

[neovox]

kinda hard to explain.  Really profound trips that I've experienced so much beyond the human experience. I'm not asking anyone to believe me. The fact is all of you also know this, but don't know you know., but it will all come back when consciousness exists its limitation. 

[Carl-Richard]

10 minutes ago, Flim said:

I'm so glad I started this topic. I cannot negate anything you're saying here.

"I want you to notice how it can only be meaningless from a human survival perspective; a perspective which only sees meaning in the perpetuation of its own agenda" Right.

"You're looking at the phenomena of "animal" from a gross surface level and forgetting the immense density of stuff happening at the micro and meta-macro levels. You're not looking at the vast web of relationships in reality and how each part is dependent on the other. There is a necessity of everything being as it is, right now, yesterday and forever." Something I've got to work on.

But of course, you shouldn't neglect your humanity either. Your humanness is just as a valuable part of reality as the tiniest speck of lint .

Edited March 14, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Forestluv]

Domains without meaning are beautiful to explore. . . When I was a child, I loved to climb trees. I was super good at it and would spend hours climbing to the tops of tall trees. I would be in the zone climbing the tree and the views at the top were amazing. . . If an adult approached me and asked “Why do you climb trees? What meaning does it give you? What is your purpose in climbing the tree?”. . . I would think them insane. I literally wouldn’t have understood until I was older and got all this conditioned into me.

Likewise, as an adult I often go into nature and observe. I may become fascinated with how all the different parts of nature interacts with itself to create a whole. I may imagine lots of abstractions. I may be inspired to write a poetry about it. If someone approached me and asked “What is the meaning of you observing nature? What is your purpose in sitting in nature?”, it would seem absurd to me. I understand that these are human constructs, yet it totally misses the point of Beingness. 

[neovox]

@Flim  I actually don't want anyone to believe me on faith. But you can  entertain the thought just for fun.

Death is actually incredible for consciousness. Not last experience while in the body and whatever physical pain that entailed. The liberation from form and reunion with Source. Our language is woefully ill equiped to provide a description. Its peace, bliss,  beauty, extreme lightness, complete absence of any concept of the slightest concern,. there is no such thing as concern because nothing can go wrong. divine perfection

[Carl-Richard]

31 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Domains without meaning are beautiful to explore. . . When I was a child, I loved to climb trees. I was super good at it and would spend hours climbing to the tops of tall trees. I would be in the zone climbing the tree and the views at the top were amazing. . . If an adult approached me and asked “Why do you climb trees? What meaning does it give you? What is your purpose in climbing the tree?”. . . I would think them insane. I literally wouldn’t have understood until I was older and got all this conditioned into me.

I kinda am this way with lifting weights, or atleast I noticed that when talking with my friend back in the summer when the gyms were re-opening. He had just started working out at home after reading JP's self-help book and he couldn't understand why I wasted money on a gym membership. It's just something about lifting really heavy and pushing yourself to the limit that triggers a combination flow, a surge of brain chemicals and hormones, and that taps into a deep primal need. I'm also kind of good at it. It's the same reason you would do any hobby: you do it for the joy of doing it.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Flim]

2 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Domains without meaning are beautiful to explore. . . When I was a child, I loved to climb trees. I was super good at it and would spend hours climbing to the tops of tall trees. I would be in the zone climbing the tree and the views at the top were amazing. . . If an adult approached me and asked “Why do you climb trees? What meaning does it give you? What is your purpose in climbing the tree?”. . . I would think them insane. I literally wouldn’t have understood until I was older and got all this conditioned into me.

Likewise, as an adult I often go into nature and observe. I may become fascinated with how all the different parts of nature interacts with itself to create a whole. I may imagine lots of abstractions. I may be inspired to write a poetry about it. If someone approached me and asked “What is the meaning of you observing nature? What is your purpose in sitting in nature?”, it would seem absurd to me. I understand that these are human constructs, yet it totally misses the point of Beingness. 

Ahh cool! When I was a child I really enjoyed watching insects go about their lives. To this day I still watch insects go about their lives and even photograph and make videos about them. If someone were to ask me "why I enjoy watching them" I wouldn't know how to reply. It's just beautiful.

[Forestluv]

23 minutes ago, Flim said:

Ahh cool! When I was a child I really enjoyed watching insects go about their lives. To this day I still watch insects go about their lives and even photograph and make videos about them. If someone were to ask me "why I enjoy watching them" I wouldn't know how to reply. It's just beautiful.

I love watching insects as well. Especially when there is a whole bunch of insects interacting with each other, because there is a higher collective mind.

I encountered leaf cutter ants in Costa Rica. I was mesmerized by them. Yet after 5min, my girlfriend was like "OK, what's next? We aren't going to spend all day watching ants, are we?". I could have spent hours watching and investigating them. 

 

[Flim]

@neovox Without the human mind to give you context of the illusory human experience against the infinite, does God in any way "remember" that it tricked itself into being a person with an identity after the persons "death" and appreciate the contrast? 

[Flim]

@Forestluv Awesome! Thanks for sharing that. I could watch ants all day and it was informative too. It makes you appreciate nature's creativity. 

[Loba]

16 hours ago, Flim said:

As someone who is trying to become a full-time vegan but still eats meat now and then, this is a question that I think about often

I would like to know what you guys have to say.

Energy needs to consume energy in order to grow and evolve.  
But it hits a tipping point where eventually you start to see and feel the pain of the animals that you eat, and that culture has conditioned people not to see animals as unique Beings.  There is a shift, and it feels visual as well, when this happens.  
I think this happens when consciousness is unaware of itself and then autocorrects when it is.  It's a level, I guess?