It's All Write

[mandyjw]

“Question: You seem to advise me to be self-centered to the point of
egoism. Must I not yield even to my interest in other people?

Maharaj: Your interest in others is egoistic, self-concerned, self-
oriented. You are not interested in others as persons, but only
as far as they enrich, or enoble your own image of yourself.
And the ultimate in selfishness is to care only for the protection,
preservation and multiplication of one's own body. By body I
mean all that is related to your name and shape--- your family,
tribe, country, race, etc. To be attached to one's name and
shape is selfishness. A man who knows that he is neither body
nor mind cannot be selfish, for he has nothing to be selfish for.
Or, you may say, he is equally 'selfish' on behalf of everybody
he meets; everybody's welfare is his own. The feeling 'I am the
world, the world is myself' becomes quite natural; once it is es-
tablished, there is just no way of being selfish. To be selfish
means to covet, to acquire, accumulate on behalf of the part
against the whole. -Nisargadatta Maharaj”
 

There is no self, so you can make the self literally anything you want it to be. You can make yourself any sort of ideology or group, any sort of fighting against, any sort of relationship with another. "I'm a mother. I'm a lover. I love others. I care for others." 

The shadowy sad lion art (scratchboard drawing I made in highschool) avatar is making even more sense. Woah! Kinda creeping myself out here. 

Who who? 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by mandyjw

[mandyjw]

There's the notion here,

that emotional suffering and mental health problems is dirty, dangerous, a liability, ugly and must be hidden. However this mostly stems from the fact that the shadow IS only the shadow because we hide it. We think our shadow is like, (oh shit massive insight about the book title that came to me months ago) our butt, it must always be clothed but if I'm suffering or worried about myself I will show it to someone who has gone to school for years and years, a butt expert. Sadly though, because the shadow is not actual it isn't like your butt, you end up showing it all the time. You can cover it with great efforts, and the greater the effort the more it comes out big time and makes a big show, like a flasher at a football game. And even that, when it happens, is nothing to be shamed of. Thank God! 

Unfortunately, psychologists are living and working from the materialistic paradigm, so while they may have wonderful therapies and insights and are generally a very helpful modality for healing, they are extremely limiting. 

What we need is radical. (I misspelled "radial", beam of light.) What we need is for our entire structure of relating as society to break down. 

This is where people go running screaming. ORGIES, drugs, people crapping on everything! 

In reality, it's sitting with someone who is terrified of having a conversation with you, someone who is so shy you want to cringe yourself but offering so little resistance and so much understanding and so much okayness that it is brought to light and talk about it, that it goes away. Instead we live by this societal structure that expects us to pretend it's not there, and yet we know fully, and feel fully, that the entire conversation is driven by it. We actually think it is KIND to pretend that it's not there. 

It's the monster under the bed. You cannot heal with someone who tells you that it's ridiculous that you believe there's a monster there. Only shame will arise. Sometimes you have to get out the flashlight and go with them to look, and SEE that there's no monster there. 

 

 

[mandyjw]

My OCD as a child was complete resistance and repulsiveness to the barriers of societal structure. My deepest suffering came from an intuitive KNOWING that I beginning to accept impositions on me that were intolerable to my spirit, to the KNOWING AWARENESS of who I really was. But I tried to work my way around and dodge these barriers. Confession was the only way through I knew of, the only way of healing and feeling okay about myself I could find that would allow me to feel better but still carry the belief of "wrong" which was so new and SO strongly felt as "wrong" itself. 

This kind of looking back feels like your life flashing before your eyes, like a conclusion to a mystery, this clarity, such powerful knowing fully shining the light back at your past and only seeing the clarity that is Now. 

That's what the OCD, the indecision is. It's fucking CLARITY, in the illusory form of deep, deep confusion. 

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT IMPOSITIONS. No one can impose them upon you. There are already no barriers. Don't take my word for it. Shine the light and see. 

 

[mandyjw]

Realizing this stuff and realizing the Now/Awareness is like always having within you. wherever you are, wherever you go, the power to look up at the stars on a really clear night in wonder and remove the weight of a perspective from it all. 

17 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Unfortunately very true.

Ps: I'm loving the flasher's big butt analogy. 

 I just went outside and my neighbors were playing with their grandkids, (which I think they are mostly raising.) One got yelled at by the Grandfather, "stop doing that if you don't want a purple butt!" (implying that he would be spanked), then a minute later the Grandmother yelled at one of the kids "stop hitting!"  This is essentially the IMPOSSIBLE, hypocritical structure we've been trying to exist within society. 

[mandyjw]

If you go straight from thinking a lot about something in a certain way, to some other task that barely uses the mind, your head will keep spinning for a while. This is what happens after awakening. You stopped the activity, you've seen the light, but momentum is still at play. Sometimes stuff really comes out and starts flying around. 

Meditation as a practice is having the self love to give yourself the relief of letting momentum stop. 

Differentiating momentum from a calling, from a pull from Source requires, (well nothing) Awareness. 

Momentum is not an effort, it seems effortless within the momentum, and yet it's a movement. Stopping momentum gently without letting it simply play itself out is an art, if you try to halt it too fast, you end up with damage. This shouldn't matter, if the thing moving isn't real, but if the thing moving isn't real, there is no movement to be dealt with. 

We still have to honor the thing and the movement. Otherwise we wouldn't tell people to meditate. Otherwise we'd be like the parent who swears to the child there's no monster and expects the child to take his word for it and not to explore. We welcome the dark and we welcome rest because the light has shown us that it is ok. This is why we're all wired for awakening. WE'RE ALL WIRED FOR AWAKENING. Oh Amazing Grace of amazing graces. Meditation is not the only way of letting momentum play out. Journaling is also, expression is. Nissargadatta compares it to having to take a piss. If you ignore this calling, it can be embarrassing, and yet it is often out of not wanting to me embarrassed and raise our hand and ask to be excused in class to use the restroom, that we knowingly choose to ignore this calling that we feel. Either we're so wrapped up that we don't feel it to begin with, or we feel it but deem it an inappropriate feeling. 

Spirituality, I am out of diapers, but I still have an accident every once in a while. (Mom says it's ok, but she doesn't ACT like it's ok when she's tired sometimes.) She even took down the sticker chart. THAT BITCH. 

I'm not sure what's up with the analogies today.  I guess we ALL must entertain our models of spiritual growth in our own way. Yep, it's like taking a piss. I think it's time to meditate. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by mandyjw

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

In reality, it's sitting with someone who is terrified of having a conversation with you, someone who is so shy you want to cringe yourself but offering so little resistance and so much understanding and so much okayness that it is brought to light and talk about it, that it goes away. Instead we live by this societal structure that expects us to pretend it's not there, and yet we know fully, and feel fully, that the entire conversation is driven by it. We actually think it is KIND to pretend that it's not there. 

It's the monster under the bed. You cannot heal with someone who tells you that it's ridiculous that you believe there's a monster there. Only shame will arise. Sometimes you have to get out the flashlight and go with them to look, and SEE that there's no monster there. 

Thank you for sharing your insights. In the area of shame, there can be feeling/thoughts of "There is something wrong with me and I can't tell anyone about it". This can elevate a minor condition to a severe condition. Cecilia McGough speaks about how the worse part of dealing with her schizophrenia is not the voices inside her head, it is the voices outside of her head - the voices and energy of real people around her and maltreatment. She attempted suicide not to escape the voices in her head, yet rather to escape the voices of people around her. She describes that she had a delusional fear of a woman stalking her, yet her fear of real people finding out about her and maltreating her was much worse. 

[Etherial Cat]

18 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Thank you for sharing your insights. In the area of shame, the dynamic you describe can intensify feeling/thoughts of "There is something wrong with me and I can't tell anyone about it". This can elevate a minor anxiety condition to a severe anxiety position. Cecilia McGough speaks about how the worse part of dealing with her schizophrenia is not the voices inside her head, it is the voices outside of her head - the voices and energy of real people around her and maltreatment. She attempted suicide not to escape the voices in her head, yet rather to escape the voices of people around her. She describes that she had a delusional fear of a woman stalking her, yet her fear of real people finding out about her and maltreating her was much worse. 

Shame is a plague. It's probably one of the worst feeling one can feel.

While feeling it, the ego is trying to bury a deep sense of inadequacy. For that, it withdraws these emotions and thoughts from absolutely everyone and its energy can fester for years. And of course, there is very strong identification going on there as well..

I have a few books on the matters that are really worth the read.

We could create a book list/ content list by pooling resources in order to share and offer it to those who are interested in such matters.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[mandyjw]

@Forestluv Absolutely. I remember realizing that I had OCD as a kid, and knowing something was very wrong and feeling very ashamed and wanting to keep the shame to myself, because I knew that my parents would be ashamed too. Ironically the OCD drove me to confess things, but the thing I would not confess or would not consider confessing was the fact that I was suffering INTENSELY because of my thoughts. That's because I couldn't see it myself.

When I accidently found out about the label OCD I felt a huge relief, and somehow that gave me the tools to start disregarding my thoughts on my own. The problem is, I completely and dogmatically disregarded them. judging them as bad and unwanted and actually cut myself of from an intuition that was underneath. 

For years I blamed my parents for my suffering but knowing what I know now, that doesn't make sense anymore. Unfortunately our society reflects to us both the belief that we should be responsible for ourselves, we should fix our own problems ourselves, on our own, AND that the ONLY appropriate resource to go to for finally admitting these problems is a professional where someone else we give the power to can give us a label. It's strikes me like the scene that played out an hour ago watching my neighbors trying to parent, "don't do that, we'll spank you!" then immediately, "Don't hit!"  We often end up internalizing shame in both cases. The shame itself is the source of the issue, but we think it is as an effect of, so that's why we think that bottling it up works. 

Actually as it turns out DIY, professional and everything else in between is all appropriate. Why would you cut yourself off from any resource, when you are the source of all? Essentially ALL of life is timeless healing, a coming together or what was never originally apart. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by mandyjw

[mandyjw]

In light of recent events I feel selfish keeping this to myself, too scared to share this because of how it might be taken. In light of recent events I ALSO know how awful this perspective looks at first, so I'll just say keep a VERY open mind and listen to the whole thing or not at all. She talks about losing a student and taking it personally. 

This forum is losing out so much because we're all muddled up about this. If our own struggles are to bring strength and clarity then collective struggles must too. There is no real separation between out own and the collective actually. They only stay as tragedies and stay a trauma and we stay not at peace because we still see them as such, and when we see them as such, we don't learn and so they continue. 

 

tragedy: apparently literally "goat song," from tragos "goat, buck" + ōidē "song"

scape·goat

/ˈskāpˌɡōt/

noun 1. a person who is blamed for the wrongdoings, mistakes, or faults of others, especially for reasons of expediency.

In the Bible, a scapegoat is one of two kid goats. As a pair, one goat was sacrificed (not a scapegoat) and the living “scapegoat” was released into the wilderness, taking with it all sins and impurities. 

 

[mandyjw]

Right now I'm letting my love and addiction to this forum sort of fade out. I guess the love will eat up the addiction. I really didn't think things would end up here. 

Where?

I mean the way things are. I didn't think they would get so bad, I thought they would go somewhere amazing. 

Oh, you mean here. 

 Yes, I was expecting a certain avenue (this forum, specific people) to be the way for what I envisioned and wanted to come. But I'm seeing how infinite, location-less and powerful "I" really am. I really don't feel that right now though. I feel inept, paralyzed, disappointed, sad, disillusioned, grieving even. 

I gave you the whole world and you responded with mourning. 

It doesn't feel whole, and it's hard to remember yourself when everyone else forgets so spectacularly. Why do I depend so much on others? Why am I co-dependent? 

Maybe you believe that you have to create alone. All this time creation has been nothing but a co-creation and the true feeling of being alone is that of being whole. 

 

“There are always moments when one feels empty and estranged.  Such moments are most desirable, for it means the soul has cast its moorings and is sailing for distant places. This is detachment -- when the old is over and the new has not yet come. If you are afraid, the state may be distressing, but there is really nothing to be afraid of. Remember the instruction: Whatever you come across -- go beyond.” -Nisargadatta Maharaj

 

It's bullshit. We're playing this game, this pretend "leveling up" just to stay above the emotions, to keep pushing them back down, to prevent the real unconditional love because we're afraid of the consequences, of the liability. And this fear IS the liability. There's something I want to say, so powerfully and it won't flow. I want it to flow and all I'm noticing is how stuck it is. 

What are you afraid of? 

Failure and insignificance. THIS, this right here, how I'm feeling now, I'm afraid of this. 

This is blocking this. 

 It's the ironic pattern I keep running into. 

You don't have to be anything for anybody.

Let me play with a limiting perspective, ok? If you go beyond, and go beyond, and discard, and see through it, and discard, don't you end up really fucking lonely? 

Oh no, you'd still have your imaginary sense of separation to keep you company. You got rid of everyone else but kept the boogeyman who lives in the closet. You're the only one who feeds him snacks.

The boogeyman is the only one I'm really co-dependent with. ?

And the rest are just reflections that manifest out of that. The reflections aren't the ones you're the feeding donuts to through the crack under the closet door. 

Seriously, he's a fucking DEVIL. 

What a perfect shadow, the lion symbolism, the 666 on the wall, and your 666 post, and the realization that you are in fact the... 

YES, I remember. It makes sense, FOR ME, only FOR ME.

It was all for you! You are loved. You need no one to appear to be the means through which it comes, you ARE Love(d)! 

Oh. Oh. OH. oh. I see what I did there. 

 

 

 

 

[mandyjw]

Here and here, here and there. There and here, there and here. 

I'll stay, I'll go, I'll go, I'll stay. Here and there. I'll stay here. I'll go there. 

here (adv.)

Old English her "in this place, where one puts himself; at this time, toward this place," from Proto-Germanic pronominal stem *hi- (from PIE *ki- "this;" see he) + adverbial suffix -r. Cognate with Old Saxon her, Old Norse, Gothic her, Swedish här, Middle Dutch, Dutch hier, Old High German hiar, German hier.

It's just not a decision I could make. 

[mandyjw]

 

[mandyjw]

The presence of what is or what *should be* a neutral sensation causing a lot of resistance or suffering is an interesting phenomenon. The sensation in the throat, chest or the stomach which we call anxiety or fear is actually just a neutral sensation. The same sort of thing occurs with fingers on a chalkboard, water dripping or someone chewing.

 "Neutral sensation" is a total write off and avoidance. But if we're willing to be open and see what is really there, we will find that it is not what we think it is. 

[mandyjw]

We're all a holes. 

 

[mandyjw]

Nirupana 42

Sunday, July 9, 1978

Do not compete with anyone in the world. Put such things aside. Your devotion to the Guru-word must be infallible. Such devotion is not dualistic. In such devotion, there is no fear and there is no begging. You will never attain peace in association with worldly matters. Once Self-realization is achieved, it is never lost. Let go of your body-consciousness: the feeling ‘I am a man’ or ‘I am a woman’. That which has no color, no design, has no expectations. If you fully understand your weak points, they will become your strong points.

Until the age of forty go on learning something. That way one gets some encouragement, some zeal to live by. Eventually you will be proud to say, ‘I know nothing’.

To mention the word nirguna (unmanifest) requires relativity. Nirguna can be recognized only if there is guna. What happens when there is no guna? Guna means the knowingness that has come in unasked as the feeling ‘I am’. It is consciousness that is listening. When there is no feeling of ‘I am’, it is called nirguna.

When a person becomes one with his consciousness and forgets himself, he gets Self-realization. The same consciousness is in the form of the five elements. It is in the form of our beingness.

The knower of consciousness is without any characteristics (gunas).

When consciousness becomes illumined, you feel ‘you are’. However, it is identified with the body. The only way to remove body-consciousness is to hold onto the

Guru-word.

One who has imbibed my words will not have any complaints. To imbibe my words, one has to meditate on the consciousness in solitude. When consciousness is purified, it recedes to the unmanifest state and there is everlasting peace. You have been enchanted with consciousness and you have identified with your body. It is very difficult to break this habit. After listening to this, you may live your life as you please. There is no need for rituals. There is no separation between us. I see you as formless, whereas you take yourself as a

body.

Out of the nirguna, many characteristics (manifest forms) are created. This must be understood while the consciousness (Sattva guna) in the body is still there. Otherwise, it will take birth time and again. Worship it with love-devotion. It will be purified. It will clearly understand the functioning of the three gunas. You will

come to see that you are a non-doer and there will be eternal peace. The manifestation of your consciousness

is called birth. It is also called the subtle body.

Despite intense effort, the habit of body-consciousness does not break. It is possible for the one who holds onto the Guru-word without fail. By reciting the mantra, ‘I am pure Brahman’, you will become limitless.

There must be unshakable faith in the Guru. His words will become one with your breath. It will become the joy of your feeling ‘I am’. It will correct the subtle body.

One who has no body, has neither remembrance nor forgetting. Hold within: ‘The Guru-word is my true nature’, with every breath. The fact that our nature is nirguna has never been forgotten, therefore it does not have to be remembered. The devotee of the Guru-word is the devotee of his own true nature. The Self exists and It is changeless. Do not attempt to change It with your intellect. With devotion of the Guru in your heart, you will never have any sense of duality. The supreme state as described by the Guru is naturally there. No remedy is required.

For bringing worthiness into your consciousness, your faith in the Guru must be absolute. It is the treasure house of the life force. Brahman is the Lord of words and It contains the universe. A great miracle is hidden in the seed. What a big tree comes out of it! The guna was latent in the nirguna. Whatever was hidden in the golden womb came out and with that the world became visible.

You will never get Self-knowledge if you impose your body-consciousness on the Guru. When you live with the faith that your consciousness and the Guru are the same, you will get Self-realization.

Such a vast world is contained in the microscopic consciousness! Such conviction comes with the Guru-word. Reading countless books is of no use. It will bring pride and with that the desire to undermine others.

All troubles will be over if you yourself become the Guru-word. Do not ever forget the Guru-word: ‘Brahman is eternal’.

Consciousness will expand and in the end it will become extinguished. ‘I am beyond the body’ will become manifest without words. It would not have to be looked after. It is easy, straight and natural. The habit of

body-consciousness is the only hindrance.

In order to be convinced that you were never born, it should be known what is born and from what it is born.

Just as there is a tree in a seed, the (universal) consciousness is latent within you. The Guru brings it out and it becomes all-pervading. Has anyone seen the end of space? Why is it so? It is because space is formed with the expanse of your own light. Make spiritual effort out of real and sincere necessity. His Majesty, the Guru, kills your individuality. The tree along with its fruits, flowers and branches enters the seed again.

The Guru has said that you are present everywhere. You must believe this in its totality. Self-realization is liberation. Then there is no need to go to heaven. You are what the Guru has described. Do not bother with anything else. Spiritual truth has no concern with the body. It does not matter whether you are a man or a woman. Remember this.-  MEDITATIONS with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

[LastThursday]

Bump. Hi. My observations on your latest vid:

"Now, go in to your direct experience, what you're directly sensing and perceiving right now. Is there any you there?"

Yes, indeed, it's all me. Everything I paint and recognise is me. And yet, nothing is me. It's all foreign and unrecognisable. I'm just a voyeur in a dream of my own creation.

"Unless we bring in thought, and that's what brings in the illusion of memory and the illusion of continuity. And, creation itself." Sure, and as you say, we should have fun with it, it's just a cosmic joke.

[mandyjw]

@LastThursday

[mandyjw]

Lately I had an insight that it's a pretty awesome skill to be able to intuitively stop at the height of something. Like Bill Waterson stopping Calvin and Hobbes before it lost it's magic or got repetitive. Like ending a conversation when it's still at a high point. Like knowing when to stop working out when you feel energized. Like eating until you feel perfectly satisfied, not full. 

It's neither an abstaining nor an indulgence. It's a secondary effect of knowing where one's happiness really comes from. 

[RendHeaven]

3 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Lately I had an insight that it's a pretty awesome skill to be able to intuitively stop at the height of something. Like Bill Waterson stopping Calvin and Hobbes before it lost it's magic or got repetitive. Like ending a conversation when it's still at a high point. Like knowing when to stop working out when you feel energized. Like eating until you feel perfectly satisfied, not full. 

It's neither an abstaining nor an indulgence. It's a secondary effect of knowing where one's happiness really comes from. 

???

[Nahm]

On 5/24/2021 at 11:41 AM, Etherial Cat said:

Unfortunately very true.

+1?