Awakening Vs Enlightenment

[Orange]

So what are they exactly and how are they different?

 

[Rakesh]

start from watching from around 10:40 

[WelcometoReality]

@Orange The video explains it well.

I would also like to add that when ego is no longer there to hold on to the awakened state enlightenment has occured. A.k.a ego death. 

[Ludwig]

@Rakesh @Orange The way the guy in the video is talking clearly indicates he is "awake". He had probably one ore two satori experiences. This means he woke up from the relative to the non relative. Here one recognizes that one is not the body/mind. The perception of such a person is not relative anymore. He wakes up from a sleeping being to an awake being. But here is STILL someone who is awake.

At this stage there are teachers and students. A "teacher" who "knows" and an unenlightened student. Probably 90% of "spiritual teachers", and clearly this guy, are "stuck" here. Once you get beyond that it is easy to spot. Just in the way the speech is charged up with energy for example. 

But this is not enlightenment. Enlightenment is beyond waking up from the realtive, beyond oneness, beyond life and death, beyond everything you can imagine. It is nothing you can attain in this life. It's an absolute death "experience" that happens by grace. Here you truly recognize that what you are was never born and cannot die. It's not coming and going, beyond every space and time.

edit: watched his video "what is enlightenment?" not the one you've posted.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Ludwig

[Rakesh]

Someone has been watching too many sadhguru videos

9 minutes ago, Ludwig said:

@Rakesh @Orange The way the guy in the video is talking clearly indicates he is "awake". He had probably one ore two satori experiences. This means he woke up from the relative to the non relative. Here one recognizes that one is not the body/mind. The perception of such a person is not relative anymore. He wakes up from a sleeping being to an awake being. But here is STILL someone who is awake.

At this stage there are teachers and students. A "teacher" who "knows" and an unenlightened student. Probably 90% of "spiritual teachers", and clearly this guy, are "stuck" here. Once you get beyond that it is easy to spot. Just in the way the speech is charged up with energy for example. 

But this is not enlightenment. Enlightenment is beyond waking up from the realtive, beyond oneness, beyond life and death, beyond everything you can imagine. It is nothing you can attain in this life. It's an absolute death "experience" that happens by grace. Here you truly recognize that what you are was never born and cannot die. It's not coming and going, beyond every space and time.

edit: watched his video "what is enlightenment?" not the one you've posted.

 

[Ludwig]

@Rakesh Have to admit, i like the way he speeks english. Gives my bad english some structure. Good catch. 

[Capethaz]

@Orange Usually when masters talk about Enlightenment or Awakening, they are refering to Stream-Entry, that is the first experience that changes you deeply, the first path. There are 4 stages of enlightenment: Stream-Entry (Sotapanna), Sakadagami, Anagami and the last one: Arahant.

[abrakamowse]

8 hours ago, Orange said:

So what are they exactly and how are they different?

 

I have no idea @Orange , but I am getting more and more comfortable with not knowing.

[abrakamowse]

But... for the sake of trying to guess what is it, I think awaken is when you intellectually see there's no self, when you begin to understand and look for enlightenment, etc...  when you know in your head but not in your experience all the things we talk here in the forum.
 In my opinion, everyone here in the forum (not 100% but all those who are seeking) are awakened, but that's the first step to enlightenment.

 

Enlightenment is when you drop completely all believes systems.

[Prabhaker]

8 hours ago, Orange said:

So what are they exactly and how are they different?

We hear the term ‘awakening’ thrown about today like rag dolls. And as is the case with almost all spiritual terminology, there seems to be levels and levels of meaning for the word ‘awakening.’ It is important to first recognize that we are not necessarily using a common language. 

The word ‘awakening’ is being used to point at, from the plethora of spiritual teachers that exists today, it is evident that it is being used to denote many different things. And it is not just the spiritual teachers who use ‘awakening’ with different meanings; you can find references from the Enlightened Masters as well. There are times it is referring to ‘awakening’ as the final enlightenment.

Some of us have lived a life centered in meditation from a young age and some of us have stumbled upon it much later in life perhaps after some major crisis that turned our world upside down. Many may describe this realization as an awakening and indeed it is. This awakening would demark the beginning of the journey. It would denote a tremendously important change of direction and priorities in one’s life. Having changed direction in life, we embark on searching out information, knowledge, understanding.

Next we come to what seems to me to be more worthy of such a moniker as ‘awakening.’ This is when one realizes oneself to be out of the mind’s conditioning. Here one is being out of the mind and is able to see the mind clearly as an object of perception. It is not that the mind has disappeared, no, but one is not living within the mind. And it is here that witnessing really emerges. The mind is still present but one is not captive to its many grips. One is also able to see the horizon. One knows what needs to happen. 

[Xpansion]

The word enlightenment seems to be thrown around a lot round here. I suppose when you are starting out on a spiritual journey it can be interesting and exciting but you soon learn that enlightenment is not just another thing to accomplish, attain or achieve. You also realise that it's not just some kind of fun easy goal that anyone can get to if they follow steps A B and C.  From what I have learnt Its not something you get to  by following a linear path set out in a book. There's not even anywhere to get to. Needing to get somewhere is just more attachment. Its a mistake to get attached to or expect enlightenment. It will hinder your practice.

Meditation is a continual letting go. It's a very difficult road, and many give up when they realise that they aren't attaining blissful heightened states or the so called "enlightenment".   In my own experience meditation has helped me to see very clearly the ways in which I have been deluding myself, the suffering I have caused my self and just how attached I am to so many things ie it has helped me to really see things as they are and that's not always pretty. It has been a painful journey but also rewarding.

I have reached Samahdi only a few times over the space of about 5-6 years and only when on retreat. Each time was very joyous and blissful experience but I really had to let go of these experiences as they became a hindrance for me ie they are very moreish and can become a source of distraction when sitting because you can start to want and expect them like a drug and this is not the purpose of meditation.  I don't even care or think about enlightenment or awakening. Its really doesn't even matter. They are just more words and concepts. It's like a carrot on a stick really.   Keep chasing it and it will always be beyond your grasp. 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Xpansion

[pluto]

Awakening is the first stepping stone to Enlightenment

[abrakamowse]

Awakening

This first enlightenment experience, known as stream-entry (sotapatti), is the first of four progressive stages of Awakening, each of which entails the irreversible shedding or weakening of several fetters (samyojana), the manifestations of ignorance that bind a person to the cycle of birth and death. Stream-entry marks an unprecedented and radical turning point both in the practitioner's current life and in the entirety of his or her long journey in samsara. For it is at this point that any lingering doubts about the truth of the Buddha's teachings disappear; it is at this point that any belief in the purifying efficacy of rites and rituals evaporates; and it is at this point that the long-cherished notion of an abiding personal "self" falls away. The stream-enterer is said to be assured of no more than seven future rebirths (all of them favorable) before eventually attaining full Awakening.

 

 

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/theravada.html