What's your take on this MRA Chick?

[CultivateLove]

She's got plenty of vidoes on her YT channel, mostly centered around dating and and men's issues. Here's one that struck me pretty hard:

 

[Danioover9000]

   She's definitely spot on with men being valued for what they can offer, and on that basis only, such that some men who won't/can't provide value to society, will be valued less. Not sure about her views on women, but on men it's correct.

[Gili Trawangan]

This is what I was talking about in that other long thread about masculine containment. Most men have this problem of not feeling valued for who they are, but for what they do or what they can provide. And it does create wounds in men.

I found this video insightful, especially coming from a woman. Obviously women have their own issues to deal with, but this issue for men usually gets ignored by women and by society at large.

[soos_mite_ah]

I agree with a lot of her points in regards to men having this pressure to be  provider. I have watched other videos by this woman because she occasionally pops up in my tiktok. She does have some points, but there is a lot of internalized misogyny on her part (not referrring to this particular video but she has the whole iM nOT liKE otheR giRLs / pick me mentality) 

My thing with MRA is that a lot of people in this group advocating for men's issues have a valid point but they have a tendency to demonize feminism for those problems instead of seeing them as ways the patriarchy also screws over men.  

The whole provider archetype is a product of the patriarchy and the gender role that the patriarchy presents. Women get the short hand of the stick because of them having their rights and agency taken away but even though men have the upper hand, the system ultimately doesn't work for them either. Men are expected to suck it up, avoid expressing their feelings, and supress their emotional needs. That's why there are also higher suicide rates for men because they are less likely to open up and get help or embrace their vulnerabilities in order to connect with others and have a support system. MRAs see these issues and the disposability of men and assume that feminism is making things worse when actually most feminists do address this concern. This concern is addressed by the notion that the feminine is typically repressed and denied for both men and women. The feminine, emotions, and vulnerability is seen as weak and that hurts everyone including men. 

[Preety_India]

11 hours ago, modmyth said:

think in a number of cultures (though not necessarily NA and many European ones), as a whole, women are expected to be the responsible ones (in the way of being expected to put others first), and boys usually get spoiled more. This tends to be the case where sons are valued more traditionally like in a number of Asian cultures. Men still might be expected to provide and be of use though.

 

As a fellow Asian, I totally agree with this, boys are raised and spoiled in my family and the girls get all the pressure to survive and thrive. 

No passes for me either. 

 

[Karmadhi]

Men have to be strong and provide and women have to take care of the children. All in the game yo.

Taking care of kids and keeping them in your belly for 9 months then going through insane pain for each kid is no walk in the park either. Also women are valued a lot by society based on their looks compared to men.

I would say females have an easier dating life if they want to but in general in life i think it is pretty equal. Outside dating, men have the edge in almost any area you can imagine. Also men tend to be more competitive and ambitious by nature so the burden of performance is actually seen as a challenge/conquest  rather than a curse.

Now there are certain countries and movements which are trying to make females have the edge in general but those are not that influential and do not affect legislation much. Even in Western Countries it is quite equal i would say unless the woman chooses to be a devil and use the "rape, assault" card to get something she wants. Example: my boss does not want to promote me because i am incompetent so i will call him sexist or said he tried to assault me. These situations are quite rare to be taken into account (at least i hope so)

Edited March 11, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Preety_India]

I sense another gender war here. 

 

[Karmadhi]

@Preety_India I said things are pretty equal in the end with each gender having advantages and disadvantages in certain domains. I do not see any need for gender war here.

[Preety_India]

@Karmadhi you're not the only one. 

 

[universe]

What does it mean to "not be valued in society"?

Does it mean that the cashier won't smile at me, that my family won't love me, my friends will think I'm a looser and that I won't find a partner?

I mean this term is pretty wishy washy. Also success has different meanings for everyone.

 

Don't waste your time thinking about who is to blame for what and being a victim. Or trying to please someone.

 

I think she also falls a bit into the trap of "not being the opposite sex"

Like if I would make a video telling everyone that girls don't want to look good but have to put up makeup everyday because of society.

Well, yeah that might be true to some extent but let's not ignore that woman have the tendency to like to care for their body and just feel pretty. Make everything around them more beautiful. Correct me if I'm mistaken on that.

So yeah we guys collect and gather resources and expand into the world because of society. But I am also deeply driven to use these resources and create something of my own. Penetrate the world so to say. That is how I guess many man feel.

[Preety_India]

15 hours ago, universe said:

So yeah we guys collect and gather resources and expand into the world because of society. But I am also deeply driven to use these resources and create something of my own. Penetrate the world so to say. That is how I guess many man feel.

Agree. I think it's a natural masculine attribute. 

 

[Emerald]

These are definitely patterns that can be noticed. Men have a lot of (often arbitrary and harmful) expectations placed upon them. There is particularly an expectation to compete on some random patriarchal hierarchy and to always be strong and suppress their emotions. I don't envy men for this. It's harder for men to grow themselves emotionally and psychologically because so many circles still expect men to just "man up" and bottle their emotions. And men are also viewed as being somehow less precious of a life than women and children. On top of this, men will often police other men's masculinity. So, it is no surprise that the male suicide rate is so high. 

So, I mostly agree with her perspective on men as I have noticed these patterns. However, men do have many advantages over women in terms of the power structures in society as they have high expectations projected upon them instead of low expectations projected upon them like women do. But it is these same high expectations that put men in a situation where they must hide their vulnerability, thus leaving them with a disadvantage in relation to their inner life. 

Now, as far as critique goes... because of her making this a "man vs woman" thing, I question her motives. And I've seen references to her in other videos where there's a lot of pro-man/anti-woman sentiments. And it is clear to me that she has some issues with feminine repression and internalized misogyny. 

I suspect that she gets a feeling of power out of being a loophole woman that isn't like the other girls. And if you go on videos like this with women sharing these videos that are sympathetic to men and that are anti-sympathetic to women or anti-feminist, you'll find cadres of men praising/worshipping them in the comments.

When I was a child/teen, I used to do some version of the same thing, where I'd say that men have it worse than women and that women are worse than men and guys would gush over me. And I felt like I could have more power in the situation that way by appealing to guys.

And it was something that made it possible for me to feel like I was an honorary guy and feel like I was escaping being like a girl... like I was going to be seen in a different light from all other women and escape the fate of being a member of the weaker sex.

And it also, in my jealousy and misogyny towards other girls, made me feel more desirable than them because I'd get more positive male attention. 

It's like I could view myself in a special category of my own where I could deny my girlhood and identify more with the perspective of maleness to avoid being trashed on and disempowered for being a girl. I had internalized misogyny and saw women as inferior to men, and so I could do this to escape my own judgments of inferiority by seeing myself in a different category from other girls/women all together. Like there were three gender designations: men, women, and Emerald.

And this lead me to repress my femininity and to exaggerate my masculinity. I wanted so desperately to be a girl that wasn't a girl. And this lead to a lot of deep wounds around my feminine side. 

So, I look at this woman, and I see myself where I was half my life ago with my own internalized misogyny. And a response to disempowerment and trying to feel like queen among men, where I would be able to distance myself from the inferior gender that I didn't want to see myself as and to ally myself with what I saw as the superior gender.

And then I could impress guys with my feminine charms and masculine sympathies and have the power to make them respect me... leaving me superior to women and a true equal to men, but with the added benefit of being aesthetically female. I could be a man on the inside and thus superior personality-wise and a woman and the outside and thus superior... like a man wrapped up in a prettier package.

All of this to escape my self-hatred, feelings of inferiority, and internalized misogyny. 

But yes, she is correct with what she's saying. Men do experience that. But I suspect she wouldn't be willing to accept that the roots of male disposability are patriarchal expectations... the same thing that creates her very own internalized misogyny. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Emerald

[Preety_India]

18 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And I've seen references to her in other videos where there's a lot of pro-man/anti-woman sentiments.

^this. 

I agree that toxic masculinity is a problem but she tried to blame it all on women. She gotta be kidding. 

 

[Emerald]

Here's what I mean by why I question her motives...

 

[Roy]

I love learning from channels like this because people like Roma and the movement she represents is perfect examples of how every POV is simply perspectival and partial.

She has a lot of great things to say, and while there are obvious grains of truth in them, it is and ultimately limited and fundamentally biased.

Just by the nature of the content in it's existence is literally dividing the population in half 

Great study case here.

[Preety_India]

@Emerald  that comment picture kind of reminds me instantly of the trope "I'm not like other women", @soos_mite_ah has a nice journal entry on it. 

 

[Peter Miklis]

I wouldn't really listen to her if I was you. The girl has a lot of mental problems and traumas (which she admited herself), and they create this overly anti-women bias. Either that, or she's doing it for male attention, I mean, just look at her comment section under her videos. MRA's gravitate towards this type of stuff, because it tells them everything they want to hear, from women's POV.

[Gesundheit]

At first sight, I thought she was recording from the toilet lol.

[zeroISinfinity]

24 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

At first sight, I thought she was recording from the toilet lol.

Made you horny or putted you off? 

Curious. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Peter Miklis said:

I  MRA's gravitate towards this type of stuff, because it tells them everything they want to hear, from women's POV.

Like every YouTube channel or in  broader term every ideology. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by zeroISinfinity

[Parththakkar12]

I see more of this happening in the future because men really do value women who understand them. This is like a huge relief to me, to see that such women exist out in the world.

Looks like the gender-war is ending now!