Is All Survival Selfish?

[zeroISinfinity]

Just now, soos_mite_ah said:

I'm willing to bet that you have some survival desires and needs. And that's perfectly ok. Unless we're perfectly ok with throwing ourselves off a cliff tomorrow because it truly doesn't matter if we life or die, I think it's safe to say that we all have some type of survival instinct or agenda. Even then, some people see survival in death or in not playing this game because it preserves the idea of them. 

If we didn't have any survival instincts, we wouldn't even physically be here. There wouldn't be a point to do anything. We wouldn't want to do anything. 

Read btw the lines. Listen to this wise guy sometimes. 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

just because you do something that serves you doesn't mean you are taking advantage of others or demeaning them.

This is the error right here.

Selfishness is not limited to that.

Selfishness is anything you do to survival the self.

For example, eating food is selfish.

[soos_mite_ah]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Selfishness is anything you do to survival the self.

For example, eating food is selfish.

I might be missing the meta point but I mean that seems like a rather extreme example.

And by that example, wouldn't literally anything, including breathing, be selfish?

Then what would love/ selflessness be? I understand selfishness/survival can be a more crude form of love and in that way all of it is one, but where do we draw the line when it comes to living our lives in the relative? 

Or I guess the line is completely arbitrary depending our level in consciousness and our desire to live in the relative is also survival 

I don't know, at that point, the meaning of selfishness would just turn into a blob without much meaning lol

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

And by that example, wouldn't literally anything, including breathing, be selfish?

Yes it is selfish. You're consuming oxygen. 

(you is used as third person reference. Hope you're not offended) 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Preety_India

[soos_mite_ah]

Also another thing that I think is important to be mindful of is the effect that telling people that their needs, boundaries, and any amount of self care is selfish because those things are survival. A lot of people don't have strong enough healthy egos to advocate for themselves therefore causing them to be taken advantage of and get into nasty situations. 

I think someone would have to be in the right place mentally to be able to take the notion that everything they do is for survival/selfish reasons and not turn it into something dangerous and self deprecating. That type of assumption can be very shame inducing.

It's not necessarily if the teaching is right or wrong rather it is about how you apply and take in that teaching. There are some insights that you have to be ready for. That's why it's so important to not rush self development. You need to have a solid foundation for meta teachings or else you're going misinterpret it and get disastrous consequences and zen devilry.  It's the whole thing with having a strong ego vs. transcending an ego. You have to have the strong ego in the first place before you go try transcending.

@Preety_India you're good lol I figured you were joking. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I might be missing the meta point but I mean that seems like a rather extreme example.

Yes, that's the key: selfishness is so radical.

It's important that you realize that.

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And by that example, wouldn't literally anything, including breathing, be selfish?

Not everything, but 99% of what you do is.

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Then what would love/ selflessness be?

It would Being.

A rock is perfectly selfless.

A living organism cannot be selfless without dying.

But there is an even higher truth: selfishess IS selflessless and Love!

But realize what that means: rape and torture is Love. Hard for a self to accept that, especially when it is happening to you.

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I understand selfishness/survival can be a more crude form of love and in that way all of it is one, but where do we draw the line when it comes to living our lives in the relative?

That's the rub, all lines you draw are arbitrary and selfish.

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Or I guess the line is completely arbitrary depending our level in consciousness and our desire to live in the relative is also survival 

YES!

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I don't know, at that point, the meaning of selfishness would just turn into a blob without much meaning lol

YES!

Now you got it.

All language and thought collapses into silent nonduality.

When everything is ONE, everything is understood and nothing more can be said or asked about it.

The mind is creating all these divisions and perplexities, getting in its own way. The mind cannot ever grasp ONEness. By grasping it, it makes one into two.

[Preety_India]

I don't believe in non duality. 

So to me, all survival is selfish. 

 

 

[Aquarius]

2 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Survival can only be selfless when an abundant  system is handing you out everything without you having to compete for it. 

Wowwww mind blown  Thanks Preety <3 I needed to hear this.

I think I have some own shadow work to do around the notion of competition/competitiveness etc etc.

Somehow that word doesn't fit in the quote. I'd say 'work' instead.

Things are possible..... maybe survival is just a concept someone made up. I think life is more abundant than that. 

Maybe I'm just privileged. Maybe I'm gifted. Idk, let's find out..

I'm open to share my wealth my way.

[Aquarius]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

I don't believe in non duality. 

So to me, all survival is selfish. 

 

 

Survival is selfish but you have a self to take care of. Love yourself. Nonduality means Oneness. Shareness. Connectedness.

The world is so complex. 

[Preety_India]

@Aquarius you're welcome 

You're already doing a ton of shadow work. Good. 

 

[Aquarius]

I don't like the concept of survivalism. It's just a word, treat it like that. 

The real real world lives itself. 

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

Survival is selfish but you have a self to take care of. Love yourself. Nonduality means Oneness. Shareness. Connectedness.

The world is so complex. 

Of course I'm selfish. My selfishness will definitely help me take care of myself. 

My selfishness is my drive. 

In other words it's my survival instinct. 

Mind blown? 

 

[soos_mite_ah]

52 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Also another thing that I think is important to be mindful of is the effect that telling people that their needs, boundaries, and any amount of self care is selfish because those things are survival. A lot of people don't have strong enough healthy egos to advocate for themselves therefore causing them to be taken advantage of and get into nasty situations. 

I think someone would have to be in the right place mentally to be able to take the notion that everything they do is for survival/selfish reasons and not turn it into something dangerous and self deprecating. That type of assumption can be very shame inducing.

It's not necessarily if the teaching is right or wrong rather it is about how you apply and take in that teaching. There are some insights that you have to be ready for. That's why it's so important to not rush self development. You need to have a solid foundation for meta teachings or else you're going misinterpret it and get disastrous consequences and zen devilry.  It's the whole thing with having a strong ego vs. transcending an ego. You have to have the strong ego in the first place before you go try transcending.

@Leo Gura What do you think about being careful of saying things like all survival is selfish and whether or not someone is ready for that type of insight or whether it would send them into a self destructive spiral? How careful do people need to be when taking in this type of knowledge considering the type repercussion they may face?

[Aquarius]

6 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Aquarius you're welcome 

You're already doing a ton of shadow work. Good. 

 

I'm doing more shadow work than I show on the forum.  I'm very happy. Thanks.

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Of course I'm selfish. My selfishness will definitely help me take care of myself. 

My selfishness is my drive. 

In other words it's my survival instinct. 

Mind blown? 

 

You blew my mind with that quote/writing. I was happy to see something that made me happy. I'm always sad and crying.

I was sincere and meant it as a compliment, but kinda hard to function properly at 3am

I apologise for any bad vibes

Edited March 11, 2021 by Aquarius

[Leo Gura]

52 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

@Leo Gura What do you think about being careful of saying things like all survival is selfish and whether or not someone is ready for that type of insight or whether it would send them into a self destructive spiral? How careful do people need to be when taking in this type of knowledge considering the type repercussion they may face?

I teach advanced and radical things. If one can't stand the fire, get out the kitchen. Do more simple and friendly forms of self-help.

Yes, there are many ways to misinterpret this work. It's pretty much guaranteed you will to some extent. That's why direct experience and personal contemplation is so crucial.

[Willie]

Just gotta be selfish more consciously, that’s the point.

[Lyubov]

sometimes I feel selfish/survival is subtly used by this forum as a substitute for good or bad. 

[Preety_India]

 

Even though survival is selfish, it is a form of necessary evil. Without this necessary evil, we would die. 

There is no demonization. It's only a radical acceptance of the truth that survival by its inherent nature is selfish. 

Just like lying in its inherent nature is hurtful. However we sometimes have to lie to protect someone, the way we lie to children. 

Thus there are many things in the context of living that are by nature harmful but are needed for things to go on. They serve a purpose and only become really harmful to the extreme when practiced unconsciously. 

So as long as you're not cutting someone's throat for survival, it's not classified as a criminal act to simply survive. So you can be at peace. 

Survival is necessary but this form of necessary evil can be practiced in more conscious ways. There are ways to be selfish where we can use our selfish ways, be conscious of it and minimize its impact on others. For example I can work instead of stealing money. I can start a business without cheating customers by giving them a reasonable service or product. 

In stage red societies, survival is geared towards causing more harm to the other person for one's survival, the societies get super competitive, almost wanting to kill each other. Examples are tyrant regimes. 

 stage Blue onwards, survival is more structured and creates space for other people to survive as well. The damage to others is minimized. 

As we go higher, cruel aspects of survival agenda are severely curtailed and more and more conscious options are chosen for the survival of all. 

For example stage Green fights for the survival of LGBTQ groups who would be eaten alive in a stage red society. 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Preety_India

[Byun Sean]

selfishness is not inherently bad. And selflessness is not inherently good.

 

Labeling them as such would be your self-bias.

A key feature of your survival 

 

 

[Aquarius]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

For example, eating food is selfish.

I always knew this but didn't dare to say it out loud. But this can also set the wrong tone... imagine telling that to someone with anorexia nervosa and with low self-esteem. Maybe you didn't direct it to them, but if they read it, yes there's a reason they had to hear it you might say. But it can also aggravate the situation.

Why not send out vibes that will make the Universe/Planet feed its people?