Harry, Megan & Piers Morgan Saga

[snowyowl]

From what I heard, Meghan never suggested the whole family was racist, there was just one un-named person who asked about skin colour, and we don't know much about the context of the conversation either. It's all very vague and there is nobody yet we can hear the other side of the argument from, so the fact that even mainstream journalists are jumping to conclusions already speaks volumes about how easy it is to push these buttons. If she wants to raise this issue in public then why not have a full inquiry and get it all out in the open?  

Edit. There is too much over-generalisation going on here, if someone's being accused then we need specifics. Otherwise, the only generalisation we should be doing is 'innocent until proven guilty'. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by snowyowl

[soos_mite_ah]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

https://www.tiktok.com/@gaznight/video/6937735516527922437?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

I couldn't care less about the dynamics of royal family but this made my day 

I saw a tweet saying that everyone is so concerned about Archie being brown that they don't notice Prince Phillip turning purple 

I don't care about the dynamics either but I just saw so many tweets and memes to where I was like "that's it, I'm watching the interview so I can enjoy the memes more."

10 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

I've heard Meghan say they've switched up the rules regarding the title. And this would be definitely something to investigate further if it was grounded.

Yet, I have some reserves on the question because that point surprised me. I knew what were the rules on that specific matter, because when Prince George was born, the situation was that he was supposed not get recognize as a prince. And I remember clearly that the reason why was because since there was for the first time 4 generations of heir to the crown, the monarchy didn't cover this eventuality. So they had to change specifically the law so George, Charlotte and Louis would get titled. Which was important from the monarchy's agenda as they are the directly in line as William's children. George is meant to be king theoretically one day, so not giving him a title at birth was unprecedented.

That was because bearing the Prince title is usually only granted to the grand-children of a living monarch. And Archie isn't (yet) in this situation. If Charles would have been king, yes, this would have been another story. But it is not the case.

So I just don't understand the claim.

Archie will inherit his father's Dukedom, Earldom and well as his Barony upon his death. Which is the standard. It's not like they would have prevented him from ever being titled, as some sort of ugly black duck. 

Also, I've just checked if Princess Eugenie's baby (who is in the same configuration) got a title. And the answer is no.

And when it comes to these elements, after quickly googling what the press had to say on the matter, I am afraid that even liberal outlets as such as the Guardian or the Washington Post shared my analysis.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/08/why-meghan-harry-son-archie-denied-title-prince-mixed-race

I don't know. Kate married an heir to the crown and their "courtship" lasted almost 10 years, so the circumstances were different. Harry and Meghan speeded up the process because they wanted children and she was already in her mid-30s.

And Harry doesn't hold the same position. Maybe the palace didn't foreshadow the pressure and were hoping for a different outcome. It's hard to believe they would have imagined how bad the situation spiral. My take is that they were hoping she would not be under such spotlight and would need little training, as a non-senior royal.

I'd say that when it comes to dealing with the job of being a royal under such scrutiny, these factors which are usually pure bigotry and non-sense take different dimensions. For instance, being American doesn't only translate into holding a foreign nationality: it becomes being estranged to the customs and having a different habitus (which ended up as a catastrophy). And being a divorcee for instance, doesn't mean being previously married: it becomes a risk of having an ex-husband spilling the tea on their wedding... etc. 

And all of these points, when you think about it, have been leveraged by the media and the british society to make their life miserable and create a lot of chaos. 

So what the royal really try to do is to give as little as possible pressure point to be attacked and to chose partner with little room for controversy and know the job. And it makes sense because the survival of the monarchy as a social construct depends on their popularity level. It is part of the game.

To be fair, the institution does very rarely communicate and keeps itself silent most of the time. Silence holds a lot of power. They use it as a political strategy. 

And it's not by issuing statement that the racism was going to go away. If anything, it would have created more controversy. Racism is still very much ingrained within the population and my bet is that they just wouldn't want to poke the bear by issuing statement which would have resulted in very little results anyway. 

Yeah I think those are fair points. I will admit, I'm not really well versed on this and I don't know much about the system there. Because I don't have that same context, it wouldn't be a surprise if I and a lot of Americans interpreted things differently. Like something that still resonates with me on the interview was when Meghan said something along the lines of her thinking it was going to be like dealing with celebrities with a little more formalities. I get that the monarchy was a major political entity back in the day but for a lot of people, there is this perception that they're now just a bunch of rich figureheads that people fangirl over. I once saw a comment  amidst all of this saying something along the lines of "the royal family is just the Kardashians for British people" and ngl that made me laugh. 

[Preety_India]

@Michael569 I can't see it because tiktok is banned in my country. 

 

[Danioover9000]

@snowyowl

1 hour ago, snowyowl said:

From what I heard, Meghan never suggested the whole family was racist, there was just one un-named person who asked about skin colour, and we don't know much about the context of the conversation either. It's all very vague and there is nobody yet we can hear the other side of the argument from, so the fact that even mainstream journalists are jumping to conclusions already speaks volumes about how easy it is to push these buttons. If she wants to raise this issue in public then why not have a full inquiry and get it all out in the open?  

Edit. There is too much over-generalisation going on here, if someone's being accused then we need specifics. Otherwise, the only generalisation we should be doing is 'innocent until proven guilty'. 

   That's exactly the case. There's more going on than what Meghan and Harry would let on, underlying the current situation. Also, this thread is over generalizing racism, so I'll explicitly tell you which degree of racism is dangerous, mild, or below awareness. Here it is:

1. All, including You have racist thoughts, deep in your subconscious mind, that place where your conscious mind cannot compute the sheer amount of thoughts related to racism. Having racist related thoughts does not mean you are an evil racist. Thoughts range from covert to mild, and some to few groups may have stronger forms of racist thought patterns. By themselves, they have relatively low harm.

2. Having negative feelings in your mind/body, from experiencing a human being of different colour and shape for the first time, does not make you an evil racist. Emotions related to threats, actual to perceived forms to one's race or ethnic group, mostly range from mild to subconscious. It is possible to feel so strongly that your body will adjust to threats accordingly. By themselves, unless the intensity is strong enough, pose little harm.

3. Having racist related thought stories and emotional responses to a person/group of difference to you/your in-group, stemming from culture/up-bringing, does not mean your are an evil racist. This is more chronic than acute case of racism, that too can be mild to subconscious, and can build up over time if no release is done.

4. Having beliefs, thoughts stories, and negative emotions that are racist related, and patterns of behavior towards an object, non-living(a table), and living, un-related to racism, does not mean you are an evil racist, i.e. me drinking tea, saying hi, does not make me an evil racist. 

5. Having thoughts, beliefs, negative emotions, that are race related, and communicating in a hard-R way, in context, does not make you an evil racist. This is where most people have more potential and possibility to confuse an act, verbal or non-verbal, as racist, without carefully minding the context. This is where abstraction can further confuse. Some negative aspects of cancel culture, cancelling an online creator, later proven innocent, come to mind, where mob mentality follows closely. 

6. Having thoughts, beliefs, negative emotions, communicate in race related ways, and acting/behaving in a racist way, in context of acting in a movie scene, does not make you an evil racist, unless the role you play in the movie has you be an evil racist. 

   All the above is natural to being a person in duality with other people, until you do the following below:

7. Follow through with destructive acts/behaviors that a related to race, from covert to intensely violent action. This makes you an actual evil racist, to choose to act on those underlying urges, even unconsciously. Even these patterns of behavior have degrees of mild to strong forms of racism, to subconscious adjustments your mind/body goes through when meeting different people you don't know well enough.

   This should not be used to justify staying at your current development, defend your cognitive biases, your morality/ethics, attack other people, but instead use what I've listed as a way to self check patterns of thinking, feeling, and behaving. Anything else beyond this self reflection, is already you weaponizing what I've said, or what other people have said here, regardless of where you stand on this issue, as the aggressor or victim. I suggest you look before you leap to your high horse, and catch how your ego weaponizes these patterns, other wise we just get word salad and little understanding of the deeper problem, and get lost on surface level problems.

   

[JTL]

Good take from Russel Brand here , about privlige and the royal family.

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by JTL

[Preety_India]

@JTL Yea I just saw and I don't relate to it. He was too convoluted. It seemed as if he justified everything on the name of respecting an old traditionalist hierarchical system. 

 

[Arcangelo]

15 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I can say black people are more muscular, athletic, and good at dance and music.

 

15 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Similarly I can say white people are good at running a business or Japanese are good at technology.

WOW! These 2 sentences are 100% racist IMO

The thing is that you just can't see it. You have work to do...

[Leo Gura]

The hilarious thing about this whole situation is that Megan doesn't even look black! If I saw her walking down the street I would assume she's white. I didn't know she was black until this story broke.

Their kid is gonna look so white that it's moot.

Which does not speak well about the royal family. If they could not stomach someone who looks this white, just imagine their reaction if Harry brought home a 100% black girl. The queen would have a heart attack

Russell Brand has darker skin than Megan, Lol.

[Carl-Richard]

@Leo Gura That was what I asked myself lol. 

[Preety_India]

2 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

 

WOW! These 2 sentences are 100% racist IMO

The thing is that you just can't see it. You have work to do...

Didn't you just say everyone is a racist and now you're telling me that I got work to do? Weren't you advocating that it is not a big deal and victims should practice self love rather than complain about it. Then why are you telling me that I got work to do?? Hypocrisy? So by your logic, you're not a racist? 

There is absolutely nothing racist about appreciating different things about a culture. Stop twisting the narrative to fit your argument. ach

You know what is racist? Supporting racism by justifying that everyone is a racist which is what you are doing.

You want racism to be so normal that nobody should point it out and victims never get justice. 

If you really weren't racist, you would have at least said once that racism does damage and harm and a person should not be racist instead of saying that everyone is a racist. 

Work on your poor attitude towards racism. Stop calling everyone a racist to fit your agenda to normalize racism and downplay it. 

I don't downplay racism like you do. 

I have participated in many threads to defend black people against racist hate 

Racism is a form of hate. Appreciating something about your culture is not racism. 

I'm not showing you hate when I say something good about your culture. So stop with your blatant gaslighting. 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Preety_India

[Yali]

Quote

I never had such a feeling. Racism is a deep issue. I never remember being racist to anyone in my life. 

You must be a rare individual.

Or you're just bullshitting yourself.

@Preety_India

Edited March 12, 2021 by Yali

[Preety_India]

Just now, Yali said:

You must be a rare individual.

Or you're just bullshitting yourself.

@Preety_India

Nope. Im against racism. And many many people are. But some people here can't handle the woke culture so they have to twist narratives. 

 

[Yali]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Im against racism.

this isn't the issue.

You can be against racism & still be racist.

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Yali

[Preety_India]

Just now, Yali said:

this isn't the issue.

You can be against racism & still be racist.

Well I understand that point. But I've never been racist. I respect all races and cultures. 

I've never degraded someone for their skin color. 

But I have myself suffered racist hate from people. 

 

[Yali]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

But I've never been racist

this is what your conscious mind tells you but what is inside your subconscious mind

[diamondpenguin]

5 minutes ago, Yali said:

this is what your conscious mind tells you but what is inside your subconscious mind

 

1 minute ago, Yali said:

this is what your conscious mind tells you but what is inside your subconscious mind

Lol didnt you just say that 5 minutes ago?@Yali

[Preety_India]

Just now, Yali said:

this is what your conscious mind tells you but what is inside your subconscious mind

Look, if you are so hell bent on calling me a racist, you can literally come up with a fantasy idea to justify your idea and bias. 

Do you know my subconscious mind better than me? 

Are you allowed to project on me? 

Are you allowed to decide what my mind is thinking? 

In the same breath, you can argue that I'm not a murderer but my subconscious mind must be telling me to murder? 

Can you see how illogical that is? 

Am I murderer now? 

 

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Yali said:

I never called you racist??? I don't even know you??

 

Then what's your point? What are you trying to accomplish? 

Sarcasm? 

Lets not derail this topic by making simplistic arguments. 

This topic is about Megan Markle. 

 

[Preety_India]

Just now, Yali said:

I'm questioning your confidence. But I don't know you.

 

Look no need to have this argument. It derails the thread. 

Lets stay on topic. 

 

[DnoReally]

Bring an American into the Royal Family. Don't be surprised it turns into the Kardashians.

 

7 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

WOW! These 2 sentences are 100% racist IMO

The thing is that you just can't see it. You have work to do...

lol, living detatched from reality must be painful

Edited March 12, 2021 by DnoReally