Leo, what should i do until i fix my SIBO/gut issues?

[Bogdan]

I am feeling debilitating tiredness, i can barely get out of bed. Any sort of work has become a struggle. Huge mental fog.

I am gathering money to fix my problems but it will take a while until i manage to save enough, since my only income so far has only been from music and there are no gigs at the moment.

So what should i do until then? What should i eat, or what other advice do you have?

[Michael569]

Hey @Bogdan can you share a bit more about your lifestyle, diet, activity, sleep etc? 

have you formally been diagnosed with SIBO? Have you had a methane/hydrogen breath test or lactulose test or stool test to confirm medically that this is happening? 

[Bogdan]

@Michael569 No,i haven't. But i'm gathering money to take those tests.

I will try to, in as few words as possible, share my journey with you.

I always had been sedentary as a child, and just about 5 years ago, when i was 20, i started working out, had a shoulder injury on my first day at the gym and so i started researching my ass off and so i discovered self-help, Leo, spirituality etc.

 

Long story short i tried veganism for about 2 years. I am pretty good at researching so i did all the good things from the start, and i went all in. I knew that it would take a few weeks for the gut flora to change, so i was patient with the gas and bloating, which indeed kinda diminished after 2/4 weeks.

But the months went by, and although i was feeling better than ever from certain standpoints, other symptoms were worsening.

I started developing dandruff, acne, constant gas, painful bloating, and loose stool. When i eat 100% plant-based, i have to poop 7 times a day on average, and it feels like i have to go really really bad, and i only poop a little at a time. It's very annoying and disruptive.

So here i am now, having gone back and forth with eating and not eating animal products, and now the symptoms are worse than ever, my allergies have gone THROUGH THE ROOF let me tell you  and i feel so tired all the time no matter what i eat that i don't know what to do until i fix my problems. I mean, i think i will try a low FODMAP diet, it's just that the mental fog and the tiredness has had me post-poning shit.

[mandyjw]

@Bogdan I'd definitely try a low fodmap diet until you get more figured out, and strange though it seems, the Medical Medium's celery juice in the morning seems to really help me, especially with the energy level thing. 

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Bogdan said:

I mean, i think i will try a low FODMAP diet,

Start here and see if this helps. If SIBO is present, LF diet will reduce the bloating. Consider cutting out gluten as well,. It is important that LF diet is 100%, complete eradication for these 2 weeks. Even small amount of high F carbohydrates or polyols can trigger methane production and give you symptoms. 

I would test out 2 weeks and see if that makes any difference. If it does, you may consider adding a 1-2 weeks of berberine combined with oregano oil along with some extra psyllium husk (up to 6g/day) to mop up the LPS bodies. 

Alternatively you can try it all together -> low fodmap + berberine + oregano + psyllium for 2-4 weeks. 

If you see that being effective, let us know and we can help you with going forward

[Bogdan]

@Michael569 Thanks! Could you give me some guidelines of LF? I'm doing my own research ofc, but if you have any preferred sources i'm all for it

[Michael569]

1 minute ago, Bogdan said:

Thanks! Could you give me some guidelines of LF? I'm doing my own research ofc, but if you have any preferred sources i'm all for it

try this ibsdiets.org/fodmap-diet/fodmap-food-list/

There are also apps for phone that help you get a quick check if you're up and about. Regarding berberine, I would try something that also has some goldenseal combined with berberine in it, for more complex antimicrobial effect. Oregano oil, usually 2-3 drops with a lot of water before meals 3 times a day. If it burns your mouth too much, stay at 1 drop. 

[Bogdan]

@Michael569 Thanks!

[Leo Gura]

Personally I'm doing a 14 day water fast. I'll talk about it on my blog soon.

You should do stool, blood, and breath tests to accurately diagnose your condition. Once you know what exactly is the problem, then you can begin treatments.

If you know for sure you have SIBO you must definitely go Low FODMAP or even No FODMAP. And you can try herbal antibiotics. If those don't help, you can try rifaximine prescription antibiotic. If that doesn't work, 14 day water fast.

[Bogdan]

@Leo Gura Thanks. I figured out as much, but I asked you thinking that maybe in your research you would have found something that i didn't

I do know that prolonged fasting is a bad idea when you have gut issues though. Your good gut flora will weaken too, and the bad stuff doesn't go away, that's certain from my research. Anecdotally, the most i did was 5 days, and i did multiple 3 day fasts back-to-back, for like a month and a half. Only temporary relief. But i'm curious how your experience will be.

[Michael569]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

you can try rifaximine prescription antibiotic

I'm curious how did this work for you? The evidence for it is really good and it seems to be very gentle to microbiome as well 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Bogdan said:

@Leo Gura

I do know that prolonged fasting is a bad idea when you have gut issues though.

Not true. People have cured SIBO with water fasting. It is not guaranteed, but it should have a pretty high success rate. It's just rarely done because a 14 day water fast is not easy to do.

Quote

Your good gut flora will weaken too,

That's the whole point, to reset your gut. You can build it back up with probiotics after the fast is done.

Quote

and the bad stuff doesn't go away, that's certain from my research.

Well, that's just wrong. Bacteria dies after about 10 days. That's why elemental diets are used.

You could try an elemental diet. It is costly though. About $800 for 14 days of elemental food powder.

The whole point of an elemental diet is to starve out all bacteria, good and bad. Then rebuild with probiotics.

Elemental diet seems to work for about 80% of people if done for 2 weeks. Goes up to 85% if done for 3 weeks. This is much easier than a fast, but you'll be spending $800 and you won't get the full healing benefits of a long fast.

Quote

Anecdotally, the most i did was 5 days, and i did multiple 3 day fasts back-to-back, for like a month and a half.

That's too short. It takes about 10 days for bacteria to die off, and to be safe you'd want to go 14.

The key is to kill everything in the gut and start with a clean slate. If you leave it half-dead, that's no good.

Fasting also has many other healing benefits that go beyond starving out bacteria. 14 days should give your gut time to repair and heal itself like never before in your life.

26 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

I'm curious how did this work for you? The evidence for it is really good and it seems to be very gentle to microbiome as well 

It did not work for me at all. But it works for many people. Seems like 60%ish.

Rifaximine is also ridiculously expensive. About $3000 in the US. You can order from Canada/India for $200-300, but it takes a month to arrive. You could also try to get free samples from your doctor. If he's nice he'll give you a 2 week supply. But samples are not always available.

[Michael569]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

About $3000 in the US.

 daaaaaamn !!!! What the actual fuck! You get it for free on prescription in UK if you are employed or for small fee. Lol all hail private medical!

That money would buy A LOT of goldenseal

[StarStruck]

20 hours ago, Bogdan said:

@Michael569 No,i haven't. But i'm gathering money to take those tests.

I will try to, in as few words as possible, share my journey with you.

I always had been sedentary as a child, and just about 5 years ago, when i was 20, i started working out, had a shoulder injury on my first day at the gym and so i started researching my ass off and so i discovered self-help, Leo, spirituality etc.

 

Long story short i tried veganism for about 2 years. I am pretty good at researching so i did all the good things from the start, and i went all in. I knew that it would take a few weeks for the gut flora to change, so i was patient with the gas and bloating, which indeed kinda diminished after 2/4 weeks.

But the months went by, and although i was feeling better than ever from certain standpoints, other symptoms were worsening.

I started developing dandruff, acne, constant gas, painful bloating, and loose stool. When i eat 100% plant-based, i have to poop 7 times a day on average, and it feels like i have to go really really bad, and i only poop a little at a time. It's very annoying and disruptive.

So here i am now, having gone back and forth with eating and not eating animal products, and now the symptoms are worse than ever, my allergies have gone THROUGH THE ROOF let me tell you  and i feel so tired all the time no matter what i eat that i don't know what to do until i fix my problems. I mean, i think i will try a low FODMAP diet, it's just that the mental fog and the tiredness has had me post-poning shit.

So are you now vegan or not?

[Bogdan]

@StarStruck nope, i eat animal products sometimes, but i see them a bit like i see dessert or junk food. It's tasty, it's very stimulating to the senses, but i do not consider it "food".

[Bogdan]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, that's just wrong. Bacteria dies after about 10 days.

"When bacteria are threatened they amalgamate and form biofilms which protect them from anti-microbials and provides them with sustenance  for an extended period of time. So quite simply, a 30 or even a 60 day water fast is not going to kill the SIBO, or other bacterial problems in the gut".

 

[StarStruck]

58 minutes ago, Bogdan said:

@StarStruck nope, i eat animal products sometimes, but i see them a bit like i see dessert or junk food. It's tasty, it's very stimulating to the senses, but i do not consider it "food".

Add organ meat to your diet: chicken heart or liver. Or even better: grass fed beef liver. Eat it at least once a week for two months and see the results. 

And secondly make good food combo's. For example eat meat with green veggies and so on. 

Your gut issues are a result of too much greens. Find sources that cause it and reduce it. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by StarStruck

[Bogdan]

@StarStruck why? 

[StarStruck]

7 minutes ago, Bogdan said:

@StarStruck 

Edited March 10, 2021 by StarStruck

[Bogdan]

@StarStruck Or maybe your body is telling you that you have a problem that needs to be fixed. You don't see lions that are allergic to zebras or monkeys that allergic to bananas. Every species has a specific diet, and our allergies and food intolerances stem from our modern way of living. It's a new phenomenon and we are just figuring out how to fix them.

 Organ meat contains a lot of toxins and heavy metals. I have good levels of every nutrient. I know how to fix my problem. I just need to gather the money to do so. I started this topic because i was really curious if Leo in his research found out something more than i did.