Re: Actualized.org: The Dark Side Of Meditation : Spiritual Ego & It's Delusions Vs Enlightenment

[Richard Alpert]

I have to admitto think this is pretty good response video.

[QandC]

Leo speaks to us. We're all ego-biased until we're enlightened. How is he gonna explain it in other ways? I think the guy who makes the response videos operates from a more egoic consciousness by judging

[ChimpBrain]

FYI there's already a multi-page thread on this if you wanna read it Mr Ram Dass

[AlwaysBeNice]

15 hours ago, QandC said:

Leo speaks to us. We're all ego-biased until we're enlightened. How is he gonna explain it in other ways? I think the guy who makes the response videos operates from a more egoic consciousness by judging

Ye, a bit of a superior vibe and he still believes in a reductionist model of the world as dogma

Edited October 15, 2016 by AlwaysBeNice

[Extreme Z7]

8 hours ago, Richard Alpert said:

I have to admitto think this is pretty good response video.

I would say otherwise, Rali (the guy making the response) has a bit too much of an ideological bent which is ironic considering that he talks about getting rid of all ideas and what not. Basically, I say he's ideological because his attitude seems to be FOLLOW THIS ONE PATH AND ONLY THIS ONE PATH OR ELSE YOU WONT REACH ENLIGHTENMENT! Whereas Leo's attitude is to look at enlightenment through multiple perspectives and "leave no stone un-turned". I'm not saying that it's a superior strategy that will guarantee enlightenment but it's just my own personal preference.

Obviously, I'm making a massive oversimplification here so don't take my opinion at face value.

[Richard Alpert]

On ‎15‎.‎10‎.‎2016 at 5:47 AM, Extreme Z7 said:

I would say otherwise, Rali (the guy making the response) has a bit too much of an ideological bent which is ironic considering that he talks about getting rid of all ideas and what not. Basically, I say he's ideological because his attitude seems to be FOLLOW THIS ONE PATH AND ONLY THIS ONE PATH OR ELSE YOU WONT REACH ENLIGHTENMENT! Whereas Leo's attitude is to look at enlightenment through multiple perspectives and "leave no stone un-turned". I'm not saying that it's a superior strategy that will guarantee enlightenment but it's just my own personal preference.

Obviously, I'm making a massive oversimplification here so don't take my opinion at face value.

What are you saying? Rali especially says there is no path, that why he little bit dissed Leo about the 5meo-dmt.

I don´t take anything Leo says very seriously anymore. I spoked to him about psychedelics about 6 months ago or something and he pretty much dismissed the whole subject, saying they have no value. Now he is having his honeymoon with the psychedelics.

Leo´s biggest obstacle to enlightenment is his huge ego. A lot of the shit he teaches he has no experience, he just takes stuff from Ralston and Shinzen Young etc. This is one of the biggest problem in spiritual community, if you are not enlightened you should be very careful what you talk about enlightenment. You will just mislead people. i think no-one should follow Deepak Chopra and likes, the guy has no idea what he is talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

[Richard Alpert]

5 minutes ago, John Flores said:

@Richard Alpert Wow, we see eye to eye on many things. And I agree, Leo has inadvertently screwed people over, causing them more pain than tranquility sometimes....

But...Leo has the most potential to reach atheists and systematic religious thinkers. He is one of the most important figures in the world as a result. Even when he becomes enlightned, he will most closely be connected with this physical world and understand enlightenment from the "root", from the Raw.

It's difficult to explain, but it's true.

 

In terms of the mushrooms, I'm not Leo's spokesmen, but I believe it came from a desperation to crack his intellectual barriers. As his mind is very closely connected to what it sees in this world, he has had a very hard time breaking through. Plus, he didn't know about the added benefits of the shrooms and how it actually opens the brain's capacity to realize that existence is just perception from this thing we call "ourselves".

It opens the mind to the notion of this word not being "real" per se, just from a neuro transmitter perspective.

 

 

"He is one of the most important figures in the world as a result"

He is no more or less important than you or me.

[Emerald]

Rali and I did a collaboration video last night, which we'll both post at some point this week. The way he describes his experiences, I believe - in light of my own experiences, however limited- that he is enlightened and has a lot of great things to say. I think his critiques of Leo are valid, though I know he appreciates Leo's work. My view is that Leo in necessarily riding blind, as is anyone who is seeking enlightenment. So, he's doing his best. But he gets a bit over-confident and gets lost in his own ideas about enlightenment. It's understandable, but maybe not optimal for someone who has so many subscribers. Either way, I really enjoy Leo's channel. That said, I think his idealism and his natural tendency toward hierarchical thinking gets in the way. 

[Richard Alpert]

2 minutes ago, John Flores said:

@Richard Alpert I agree. But in terms of actualized.org

Kids will be looking at this in 10 years. Our mission is to perfect man. Our mission is to become God. Our mission is to be truth

We have to travel the word, the universe, discover, change worlds, create worlds....

 

This talk sound INSANE. Who else is going to have the ability to convince the logical masses of this potential if not him??

How do you become "god" if you have always been a "god"?

Trying to become perfect as a some form of concept is quaranteed to bring a lot of suffering. And you have always been perfect, you have just some fucked up´d belief what is perfect. Why dont we try to become nobody instead?

[Richard Alpert]

4 minutes ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

Rali and I did a collaboration video last night, which we'll both post at some point this week. The way he describes his experiences, I believe - in light of my own experiences, however limited- that he is enlightened and has a lot of great things to say. I think his critiques of Leo are valid, though I know he appreciates Leo's work. My view is that Leo in necessarily riding blind, as is anyone who is seeking enlightenment. So, he's doing his best. But he gets a bit over-confident and gets lost in his own ideas about enlightenment. It's understandable, but maybe not optimal for someone who has so many subscribers. Either way, I really enjoy Leo's channel. That said, I think his idealism and his natural tendency toward hierarchical thinking gets in the way. 

Good shit, looking forward to the video. What i have watched ur videos and comments you seem very openminded and cool.

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Richard Alpert said:

Good shit, looking forward to the video. What i have watched ur videos and comments you seem very openminded and cool.

Thank you! 

[Emerald]

18 minutes ago, John Flores said:

@Richard Alpert I agree. But in terms of actualized.org

Kids will be looking at this in 10 years. Our mission is to perfect man. Our mission is to become God. Our mission is to be truth

We have to travel the word, the universe, discover, change worlds, create worlds....

 

This talk sound INSANE. Who else is going to have the ability to convince the logical masses of this potential if not him??

Careful with these mindsets. They are attachments and therefore barriers to enlightenment. It taints your intentions for enlightenment, because you want something from enlightenment that's out in the future. It is a desire for things to be otherwise and a non-acceptance of the current reality. Since enlightenment and unconditional acceptance/love go hand in hand, wanting reality to be some other way and making enlightenment into a means for that desired reality come to fruition is a stumbling block. You have to want whatever is... exactly as it is. So, talking about missions and the like, really gets you off track. Reality is perfect and needs no improvement. Any grand scheme to improve reality is based in the ego-consciousness paradigm. This is not to say you can't have preference... just don't take them too seriously. The world doesn't need saviors. 

[Richard Alpert]

4 minutes ago, John Flores said:

@Emerald Wilkins But I love knowledge. You are saying to detach from something so....Godly

 

It's like saying you are not enlightenment. It's illogcial. God is knowledge and knowledge is God and if the ego didn't pursue that knowledge, its despicable.

Are u Tai Lopez? Knaawledge

[Leo Gura]

Ya'll need to learn to fucking listen, Rali included.

A) That entire video he's rebutting was NOT about enlightenment! It was about the side-effects of meditation! Nothing I said there had anything to do with enlightenment.

B) I never claimed those side-effects have meaning or value. In fact, I said to stay calm and carry on.

C) I never took any ontological position regarding those side-effects. Keep in mind that your mind constructs all of "physical" reality. So to say that a wall is "real" while  a demon is not, is rather moot.

D) Clearly none of you have very much meditation or altered consciousness experience.

E) Watch out for all these projections you make about me. (A rookie spiritual aspirant mistake.)

F) Another rookie mistake: nitpicking spiritual explanations to create a false sense of rivalry or contradiction.

G) Just because you understand enlightenment logically, doesn't mean you have any experience with all the other aspects of spiritual realms.

As a rule of thumb, when you think you have some angle on this stuff that I haven't thought of, think again. You underestimate the depth and diversity of what we're dealing with here too easily. The understandings I communicate to you is maybe 1% of what I actually understand. Some of the things I tell you, you won't understand until you spend years digging deeper and doing the practice, Rali included. There is more to this stuff than merely no-self.

You guys are failing the open mindedness test. How am I supposed to talk about demons in the future when you pull out the pitch forks or jump ship at the first uttered syllable?

May your mind materialize a big fat demon who bites you in your mind-constructed ass for your arrogance

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, John Flores said:

@Emerald Wilkins But I love knowledge. You are saying to detach from something so....Godly

 

It's like saying you are not enlightenment. It's illogcial. God is knowledge and knowledge is God and if the ego didn't pursue that knowledge, its despicable.

I did not say that. What I said was that reality doesn't need fixing.

But on the topic of knowledge. Prior to and after my experiences of ego transcendence, I was incredibly thirsty for knowledge. I couldn't get enough of it and I wanted to stuff myself completely full with it. It was a constant searching, learning, seeking, digesting, assimilating, and utilizing knowledge. But there was never a sense of satisfaction there. My mind never rested. However, in those brief hours when I had transcended my identity, the urge for more knowledge completely dropped away and I realized that I had only ever been seeking the state that I was now in. I was satisfied in those hours. And there was this deep sense that I didn't need to constantly look around for new knowledge, as I already knew everything that I could ever want to know. And this knowing was already within me. I had access to all the wisdom, and I didn't need to figure any of it out. I could just take from it what I needed. 

So, if what you seek is enlightenment, my recommendation is to 1. Get rid of your grasping for knowledge. 2. Recognize that reality is perfect, even if you don't prefer what happens in it. 3. Recognize your judgments of reality and others that oppose your worldview as stumbling blocks to your own expansion. 

[Richard Alpert]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

D) Clearly none of you have very much meditation or altered consciousness experience to dismiss so easily.

This is youre obstacle.

[Leo Gura]

@Richard Alpert Oh, the arrogance.

[Psychonaut]

Guys wait. I'm going to the store to get some caramel popcorn.

[Emerald]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ya'll need to learn to fucking listen, Rali included.

A) That entire video he's rebutting was NOT about enlightenment! It was about the side-effects of meditation! Nothing I said there had anything to do with enlightenment.

B) I never claimed those side-effects have meaning or value. In fact, I said to stay calm and carry on.

C) I never took any ontological position regarding those side-effects. Keep in mind that your mind constructed all of physical reality. So to say that a wall is "real" while  a demon is not, is rather moot.

D) Clearly none of you have very much meditation or altered consciousness experience.

E) Watch out for all these projections you make about me. (A rookie spiritual aspirant mistake.)

F) Another rookie mistake: nitpicking spiritual explanations to create a false sense of rivalry or contradiction.

G) Just because you understand enlightenment logically, doesn't mean you have any experience with all the other aspects of spiritual realms.

As a rule of thumb, when you think you have some angle on this stuff that I haven't thought of, think again. You underestimate the depth and diversity of what we're dealing with here too easily. The understandings I communicate to you is maybe 1% of what I actually understand.

You guys are failing the open mindedness test. How am I supposed to talk about demons in the future when you pull out the pitch forks and jump ship at the first uttered syllable?

I don't know if this is in response to my comment. But I stand by every word of what I said. I think you're often a bit too sure of your perspective, as you have a strong tendency toward idealism and you have a love affair with willpower and determination - the most simultaneously nefarious and amiable of allies on such a path. But I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I still think your perspective is awesome. All that said- and I'm not trying to kiss your ass-  some aspects of Rali's videos are way off regarding your perspective. I know that your perspective is not that enlightenment makes it possible for you to walk through walls and do magic tricks. So, I think he should probably watch your videos more thoroughly as opposed to just cherry picking to use them for click bait. But he does have many valid things to say as well. 

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald Wilkins Next week's video should be: How To Walk Through Walls

Just to give ya'll something to gossip about.