Absorbing other people's trauma

[soos_mite_ah]

Is it possible to absorb other people's trauma by watching them suffer in difficult circumstances even though you yourself havent gone through the same thing? Like I have seen people go through some things and I guess as a survival mechanism my mind is like "well shit I need to learn from that so that I dont end like that person." And next thing I know I'm extra cautious and sometimes anxious about something that didnt effect me personally.....yet. 

Is this something that just happens with people who tend to be more empathetic? 

[Leo Gura]

I'd say that practically-speaking that is not going to happen.

Trauma is not just some minor anxiety or mental concern. Trauma is a deep visceral scar in the psyche. To get it your psyche must get scarred somehow, and is not likely to happen from 2nd hand experience.

It is not enough to watch a rape in the movies to be scarred.

[Zigzag Idiot]

If it’s based on empathy but is doing nothing for alleviating others suffering, I might put it in the category of unnecessary suffering.

I’ve used this categorization of types of suffering for the last 5 years or so. It’s Fourth Way sourced material.

In Talks on Beelzebub's Tales, Bennett distinguishes four types of suffering - Unnecessary Suffering, Unavoidable Suffering, Voluntary Suffering and Intentional Suffering. Lets have a look at each of these to see if they can help our understanding:

The first is Unnecessary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we incur because of our unreasonable attitudes and expectations towards others, from our ill-will, hatred and rejection of others, from doubt, possessiveness, arrogance and self pity. In other words, suffering arising from our self-importance.

The second is Unavoidable Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that comes to us by accident or from events beyond our control, such as interpersonal conflicts, war, disaster, disease or death.

Third, we have Voluntary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish a personal aim, such as an athlete who disciplines himself to win a race, or a student who labours to get good grades.

And finally we have Intentional Suffering. According to Bennett, this would be the kind of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish an impersonal or altruistic goal, one that is directed more towards service to others or to the Work, and not for any personal gain. Bennett assumes that this is what Gurdjieff meant by Intentional Suffering.

[hyruga]

You won't get the full trauma but you will get some of the vibes if you are a very empathetic person.

Like take for example, if you watch some dogs' videos where the dogs are suffering with no food or has injuries, then naturally you will think more and more sympathetic towards dogs in general. Then when you walk past an injured dog one day, a non-watcher will just walk past it without noticing while you will begin to notice the dog is injured.

[Forestluv]

@soos_mite_ah It depends on the orientation of the person. Someone who is oriented toward logic, conceptualization, intuition, creativity etc. may be negatively impacted by watching another be traumatized, yet will unlikely be traumatized themselves. 

However, it's very different for a person that is primarily empathic. I've witnessed other's trauma and was traumatized by it. Not the same type of trauma tho. I've witnessed and indirectly experienced stuff that f--- me up. Like I couldn't sleep well for weeks / months, had chronic anxiety and psychosomatic pains such as chest pain. Even thinking about it right now is creating anxiety and pain in my body. 

Most people have some distance between their own experience and that of another. Yet for the 10-20% of people that are highly empathic, there can be little to no distance. 

[soos_mite_ah]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'd say that practically-speaking that is not going to happen.

Trauma is not just some minor anxiety or mental concern. Trauma is a deep visceral scar in the psyche. To get it your psyche must get scarred somehow, and is not likely to happen from 2nd hand experience.

It is not enough to watch a rape in the movies to be scarred.

Like @Forestluv said it wouldnt be the same type of trauma. Degree of extremity of trauma is important to take into consideration.

And with the movie example, when you are watching a movie, you know it's fake. But I dont think you can say the same thing if you witnessed a rape in real life. It's not going to be the same type of trauma as if you were the person being raped but even witnessing that is going to mess you up. There are a variety of factors that would have to be considered to determine how much one could distance themselves from that experience ranging from the age you witnessed the traumatic event as well as your relationship to the person directly suffering the trauma. 

[Leo Gura]

If you witnessed a rape in real life I guess it could. Depends on how your mind interprets it and how horrific it is, and how graphic it is.

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

And with the movie example, when you are watching a movie, you know it's fake. But I dont think you can say the same thing if you witnessed a rape in real life.

You are bringing up the idea of distance. Yet distance is also influenced by someone's natural empathic abilities.

For example, there is a lot of distance between thinking about animal suffering in factory farming. Most people know it occurs, yet aren't bothered by it. A step closer would be watching videos of animals suffering in factory farms. Most people would find this more bothersome than simply the thought that it occurs. Even closer would be visiting a factory farm and watching the animals suffer right in front of you. Even closer would be to watching your beloved pet get tortured. Even closer would be getting forced to torture the animals yourself. 

Yet those distances are  also influenced by the person's empathic orientation. For a normal person, watching a video of animal suffering might register as a 4/10 on the discomfort scale and watching in person may be a 6/10. Yet for an empath, watching the video may be a 6/10 and seeing it in person might be an 8/10. 

[Origins]

@soos_mite_ah yeah that's what empathy does, but the meanings we give things affect that a lot. once its in there (our bodies), we have to let go just as much as we learn to let go of anything else meant and not meant for us (meant here ---- implies meaning, everything around us is neutral and is only as meaningful as the meanings we give it)

[DrewNows]

it's possible to absorb other people's energy. attitude, vibration, mind state, boundaries play a big part in holding space and empowerment. You can get lost in someone else's pain or suffering if there's a deep bond. Energy protection and cutting energy cords will help. Losing control of the mind and emotions can be devastating. The better we get at feeling through our own shit, the more expansive our awareness/conscousness becomes, this enhances psychic abilities or connection with the external world 

[Farnaby]

Yes, it's possible because we have mirror neurons, empathy and so on. 

You would probably not be as traumatized as the direct victim, but the psyche is complex so I wouldn't say it's impossible. 

I also think this is more likely to happen if you yourself have something inside you that resonates with the experience. For instance if you are on high alert because of stuff that's going on in your life, you could easily be more affected if you see someone who had an accident. If you're in a better place mentally and emotionally you're probably going to be less traumatized (or not at all). 

All this stuff is really complex and I would say no one knows for sure how this works, but that has been my experience and observation. 

I often find myself strongly resonating with other people's vibe. For example if my girlfriend is feeling bad or even panicking a bit and I'm not feeling very grounded, I can easily start to feel some anxiety/panic as well. 

[Danioover9000]

@soos_mite_ah

17 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Is it possible to absorb other people's trauma by watching them suffer in difficult circumstances even though you yourself havent gone through the same thing? Like I have seen people go through some things and I guess as a survival mechanism my mind is like "well shit I need to learn from that so that I dont end like that person." And next thing I know I'm extra cautious and sometimes anxious about something that didnt effect me personally.....yet. 

Is this something that just happens with people who tend to be more empathetic? 

   It depends on their development, but likely possible to absorb traumas from other people. Also, more likely if the person is empathetic. This is one explanation as to why the hermit path is appealing, because that solitude acts as both a purification and barrier to absorbing other people's bullshit.

[Farnaby]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarious_traumatization

[Nahm]

@soos_mite_ah

Can you think perception?

[soos_mite_ah]

@Nahm I believe we think, feel, and live in our perception since it is our world view. It's very difficult to step outside of it given things like bias, indoctrination, survival etc. Some perceptions and thoughts are clearer and more aligned with truth than others. 

[Nahm]

@soos_mite_ah

I’m not trying to ‘knock’ your beliefs, I respect that as your prerogative, really. I’m sharing that I have found, in inspecting beliefs, that one can not think perception. When you say ‘perception is our world view’, to me, you’re talking about perspective. By perception, I mean seeing, hearing, etc. If you’re interested you can check what I’m pointing to in your direct experience right now. Notice seeing for example, and think anything you like about it, and you’ll notice it has no bearing, it creates no change, to seeing. Though we believe thoughts as labels for “things”, there are no “things”, nor is there any separation in perception whatsoever. 

In regard to your original post, what is it then, in this light, to “absorb other people’s trauma”?  What is trauma? WHat is it’s source? How is it or would it be transmitted?  Is it what happens or is happening, or is it what happens or is happening to someone?  Given a certain spectrum of clarity on thought attachment and that perception can’t be thought, nor can thought be perceived, what sense can it make to focus on being cautious or anxious about what you experience, when it is your thoughts and perception? What sense does it make to think in terms of “yet” as you mentioned in your op? Is empathy the same as being empathic? These are sort of contemplative suggestive questions, I’m not really asking for any answers, just adding to the inquiry of your thread.