Does dating multiple women hurt your chances?

[Karmadhi]

Okay so i have noticed that basically almost all of dating advice (including Leo's advice) says that you should date multiple women on the same time, that you should not limit yourself to 1 girl until you become exclusie together (start a relationship/become bf:gf). However in reality i have noticed that basically all of my female friends have said during conversations that they would be very pissed, hurt, turned off if they found out the guy they are dating is also dating other girls. If you hide the fact from them (the girls you are dating) then you are partial lying (withholding information to suit your agenda), if you tell them the truth there is high chance they will stop talking to you, if you straight up lie to them well that is highly unethical imo, and if you manage to still keep them it means they are so needy and desperate for you that they are willing to step on their principles for you. This in turn will create a co dependent toxic relationship most likely.

What do you people think about this? I have a strong feeling the women will agree with this (it suits their agenda of course) but their comments are always appreciated. And what about you guys +Leo, what do you think?

Disclaimer: i am not talking about instagram super hot models with 500k followers and pornstar bodies. I am talking about cute/pretty smart kind girls (which get male attention but not 100 dick picks a day).

[Preety_India]

Of course lol

[Karmadhi]

@Preety_India I believe so too. Why would you say all dating coaches and advice including Leo support the idea?

[Gili Trawangan]

What do YOU want to do? Date multiple women or just one? 

[Karmadhi]

@Gili Trawangan Multiple women for first and maybe second dates, even sex. But to grow close and develop feelings only 1girl.

[Gili Trawangan]

@Karmadhi Then own that fully. There's no need to lie, but you don't have to rub their noses in it either. If asked, be 100% honest. Just own it.

[Bando]

Dating multiple women means you have options if you ofc some women won't like if you tell them your seeing other chicks but thats what options means, now if your in a committed relationship and your seeing other women thats different, not a good move

[Hardkill]

OP, you definitely should start out dating multiple women at once until you have decided yourself several months down the line which of the girls you're dating or having sex with you want to be in a serious relationship with you. That way, you are able to keep your options open instead of putting all of your eggs into one basket. If a girl you're dating or having sex with asks you if you are seeing anyone else tell her honestly that you are. You don't have mention exactly how many girls you are seeing or sleeping with. Tell her that you like her a lot and respect her a lot, but as a single guy you like to date other women and also like to wait and see how things go between you and her before you totally decide to commit to only wanting to be with her. If she's not down with that then that's her lost and just let her go. She's either gotta take it or leave it on your terms as the man. 

Also, don't listen to those women who told you not to date more than one at a time. Leo and good dating coaches out there have talked about who most women you talk to will only telling you what they want to hear from a guy not what women generally truly respond to. In fact, women actually get subconsciously turned on by a guy who is dating multiple women, especially if she knows that the women he dates and sleeps with are attractive. This is because women, at least on a subconscious level, perceive guys who they know are dating and sleeping with multiple women as a man who is high on demand in the dating market, cool, and good if not great with the ladies. This particularly true if she knows or recognizes that the women he dates and/or fucks are hot.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Hardkill

[Arcangelo]

3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

basically all of my female friends have said during conversations that they would be very pissed, hurt, turned off if they found out the guy they are dating is also dating other girls

They say it, but they don't mean it. It's like a kid playing with a toy, if a kid plays with a toy all the other kids want to play with that same toy. So if a woman learns that a man doesn't have any options she immediately thinks that something is wrong with the dude. And immediately loses attraction towards him. Letting women know you are dating is a good thing, but try not to make it like you are bragging about it, that will be a turn off, just like any kind of bragging.

 

[Flowerfaeiry]

It depends on the type of women you're dating. A mature woman who has done an amount of development on herself won't have a problem with it. 

[Emerald]

For me, it would honestly turn me off because it would mean that he's not all that into me. So, I would probably just take his courtship as a casual fling or just move on... unless I were already head over heals for the guy, which typically takes me a long time.

Now, if I were in that situation and already head over heals for the guy, I would feel very insecure and it would really screw with me. Basically, once a guy strikes at that insecurity, I know that I would be best to force myself to move on regardless of how I feel, though it may take me a while to sever it once strong feelings arise.

But it really depends on the woman and if she's more oriented towards polyamory or monogamy.

So, just tell her up front.

I am very oriented towards monogamy as I like to put all my investment in one person. So I know that it would be a dealbreaker for me if a guy was with multiple women at once, as it would disrupt my ability to invest in him and be courted. And I'd probably automatically sort him out if I knew that up front.

And if a guy didn't tell me and I already got to the point where I was invested in him, I'd be hurt because I'm not oriented that way. And I'd start putting up walls and beginning the severance process.

[Leo Gura]

Dude, you gotta stop asking women what they want. What men and women want is not the same thing.

The reality is that when you are pursuing women, 95% of them will flake on you and leave you dry. So from the man's POV, rather than putting up with all that bullshit, you pursue multiple women until one of them hooks hard.

The general rule is this: don't sit around waiting for women. Do your thing until one of them falls for you and wants to go exclusive.

In practice, unless you're doing hardcore weekly pickup, you will rarely be going on actual dates with multiple women. You wish you had that problem. That requires working the clubs harder than a rented mule.

The general rule for guys should be this: Until there is sex, there is no exclusivity or loyalty. After sex, we can talk about it.

If you make the mistake of being loyal to a women before she even has sex with you, you'll be in for a world of hurt. This is way too needy and attachy on your part. You are WAY too invested. The crucial mistake is thinking of her as your girlfriend before she even slept with you. Don't make that mistake.

Don't expect any woman to okay this in some logical conversation. She won't because she has her own biased agenda at work, as do you. It is meant to be an implicit thing.

Should you be scheduling dates behind her back once she's slept with you? I would suggest not. Once she hooks hard, you can cancel any dates you had on your schedule (should you be so lucky). She does not need to know about your schedule. If she wants to go exclusive with you, she better make that clear through her behaviors by investing a lot in your. The general principle is that you don't want to over-invest in her. Your investment in her needs to slightly less than her investment in you. If your investment in her is higher than her investment in you, you're doing it wrong. You're being too needy.

[Hardkill]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Dude, you gotta stop asking women what they want. What men and women want is not the same thing.

The reality is that when you are pursuing women, 95% of them will flake on you and leave you dry. So from the man's POV, rather than putting up with all that bullshit, you pursue multiple women until one of them hooks hard.

The general rule is this: don't sit around waiting for women. Do your thing until one of them falls for you and wants to go exclusive.

In practice, unless you're doing hardcore weekly pickup, you will rarely be going on actual dates with multiple women. You wish you had that problem. That requires working the clubs harder than a rented mule.

The general rule for guys should be this: Until there is sex, there is no exclusivity or loyalty. After sex, we can talk about it.

If you make the mistake of being loyal to a women before she even has sex with you, you'll be in for a world of hurt. This is way too needy and attachy on your part. You are WAY too invested. The crucial mistake is thinking of her as your girlfriend before she even slept with you. Don't make that mistake.

Don't expect any woman to okay this in some logical conversation. She won't because she has her own biased agenda at work, as do you. It is meant to be an implicit thing.

Should you be scheduling dates behind her back once she's slept with you? I would suggest not. Once she hooks hard, you can cancel any dates you had on your schedule (should you be so lucky). She does not need to know about your schedule. If she wants to go exclusive with you, she better make that clear through her behaviors by investing a lot in your. The general principle is that you don't want to over-invest in her. Your investment in her needs to slightly less than her investment in you. If your investment in her is higher than her investment in you, you're doing it wrong. You're being too needy.

Yeah even if you sleep with her, you still don't owe her any kind of commitment to her, just as she doesn't owe you any sex. That's why there's no need to lie to women about wanting a relationship with her when you currently don't want to or not yet. 

Also, you want women to prove themselves worthy enough to be a loyal princess or queen of yours. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Hardkill

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura I appreciate the long advice but there are a few things i should clarify.

1. I am 22 year old and therefore i will date girls 19-21 for the most part (with exceptions ofc). A 20 year old girl does not have the sexual experience and mindset of "only caring for a guy until i sleep with him". I know A LOT of girls that started to have legit feelings for a guy and got devastated when things didn't turn out well BEFORE she slept with him. A lot of girls will not even have sex before being in a relationship, to them kissing is the equivalent of "we are not friends maybe we should get exclusive". Keep in mind we are talking about european girls here, they are not as sexual and wild as american girls.

I heavily agree with the idea of not getting too invested before she gets invested in you also. I did it in the past and it hurt like HELL after.

2. Of course you will not be a needy bitch but imagine you go on a few dates with a girl (before sex but maybe kissing) and she asks you whether you are dating anyone else. What are you supposed to say? If you choose not to reveal anything then she will just assume you are dating others and will get hurt and stuff like that. 

So my question is simply: How would you recommend me to handle such situations, where this stuff gets brought up.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Hardkill]

51 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura I appreciate the long advice but there are a few things i should clarify.

1. I am 22 year old and therefore i will date girls 19-21 for the most part (with exceptions ofc). A 20 year old girl does not have the sexual experience and mindset of "only caring for a guy until i sleep with him". I know A LOT of girls that started to have legit feelings for a guy and got devastated when things didn't turn out well BEFORE she slept with him. A lot of girls will not even have sex before being in a relationship, to them kissing is the equivalent of "we are not friends maybe we should get exclusive". Keep in mind we are talking about european girls here, they are not as sexual and wild as american girls.

I heavily agree with the idea of not getting too invested before she gets invested in you also. I did it in the past and it hurt like HELL after.

2. Of course you will not be a needy bitch but imagine you go on a few dates with a girl (before sex but maybe kissing) and she asks you whether you are dating anyone else. What are you supposed to say? If you choose not to reveal anything then she will just assume you are dating others and will get hurt and stuff like that. 

So my question is simply: How would you recommend me to handle such situations, where this stuff gets brought up.

 

Actually, tons and tons of girls between the ages of 18-25, certainly within westernized nations, are absolutely down for casual sex, and so many of them leave men after having sex with them. Dude, ever since like the 90s or the new millennium, countless women have had one-night stands, friends with benefits, orgies, and all kinds freaky sexual relations while having very little to no emotional attachment to any of guys they fucked. Watch Mr. Locario vids on all of this on his Youtube channel. Even watch Youtube vids from London dating coaches such Johnny Cassell, Kezia Noble, Hayley Quinn, and James Tusk, who've talked at great length about how so many girls including so many hot girls around the world, especially very young girls of legal age, are willing to have casual sex ( with a guy under the right circumstances.

Also, as I said in one of my above posts, If a girl you're dating or having sex with asks you if you are seeing anyone else tell her honestly that you are. You don't have mention exactly how many girls you are seeing or sleeping with. Tell her that you like her a lot and respect her a lot, but as a single guy you like to date other women and also like to wait and see how things go between you and her before you totally decide to commit to only wanting to be with her. If she's not down with that then that's her lost and just let her go. She's either gotta take it or leave it on your terms as the man. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura

A 20 year old girl does not have the sexual experience and mindset of "only caring for a guy until i sleep with him".

Don't underestimate how selfish and careless more girls are. She isn't some saint. She's blindly following her own survival agenda. She will not give two fucks about flaking on you.

Quote

I know A LOT of girls that started to have legit feelings for a guy and got devastated when things didn't turn out well BEFORE she slept with him.

Yeah, well, it goes both ways. Hurt feelings come with the territory of dating. Most girls don't give a fuck if they step all over your survival agenda.

Quote

A lot of girls will not even have sex before being in a relationship, to them kissing is the equivalent of "we are not friends maybe we should get exclusive".

My personal rule is that there is no relationship until sex.

But you may feel otherwise. I set my rules based on my deep experience of what works and what does not.

Of course you can try doing it the other way and get some results, but it's not a good overall dating strategy.

Remember, that is HER frame. You can choose to play by her frame or set your own frame. Will setting your own frame lose you some girls? Sure, but it will get you many more others. As a general rule, the guy should be setting the frame, not the girl. At least from the guy's POV that makes the most sense. If you like being a pussy you can buy into her frame.

Quote

Keep in mind we are talking about european girls here, they are not as sexual and wild as american girls.

Ahahahahaha!

Quote

imagine you go on a few dates with a girl (before sex but maybe kissing) and she asks you whether you are dating anyone else. What are you supposed to say?

That's none of her business.

If she is asking this kind of question you already did something wrong.

From the moment she meets you she should realize that you are a high value guy who is highly social and desirable to many girls. She should feel that if she does not snap you up soon you will move on to other girls. She should feel like you could bang a new girl every night if you wanted to.

First cum, first served

Quote

If you choose not to reveal anything then she will just assume you are dating others

Good!

Quote

and will get hurt and stuff like that.

No, she won't get hurt. She will desire you even more because she recognizes how attractive and high-value you are.

Quote

So my question is simply: How would you recommend me to handle such situations, where this stuff gets brought up.

Attraction is highly counter-intuitive. You think that by being meek and humble and loyal and nice that this will make girls attracted to you, but it's the opposite. With that strategy you will lose many girls and mostly attract the weakest and lowest-value ones.

A girl's fantasy is to lock down a player/knight in shining armor who is a pussy magnet. Not some meek nice guy who will beg her for sex like a panhandler begs for nickles. Regardless of whatever bullshit story she tells you, she wants a high-value guy. Period. No amount of talking or excuses will change that. And the #1 clue of a high-value guy is that he can get laid any day he wants to.

One of the most attractive things you can do is to show up to a party with a bunch of hot girls at your side, orbiting around you like groupies. This will make you appear WAY more attractive to all the other girls, creating a feeding frenzy for your dick.

Deep down she wants to know that you could fuck any girl in the world, but you choose to only fuck her because she is so special to you. That is her ultimate fantasy.

If the particular girl you want is insecure, you can dial all this down a bit. But there is no shame at all for her to perceive you as sexually active. As a man, you don't need to hide the fact that you're a bit of a player. Don't explicitly say so. It should just be a vibe you give off. Girls will smell it.

Consider Brad Pitt. Every girl knows he can fuck whoever he wants whenever he wants -- and probably does so. And this is why every girl dreams of landing him.

If you want the most brutal truth, dating multiple women not only doesn't hurt your chances, it increases it, and the more women you date the higher your chances get. This is so true that it can get easily abused to sociopathic levels. PUAs abuse this principle all the time. I don't recommend you do that. I recommend you find a nice balance that does not crush girls hearts nor inflate your ego. You can be strong and assertive without being a total scumbag.

[Hello from Russia]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura I appreciate the long advice but there are a few things i should clarify.

1. I am 22 year old and therefore i will date girls 19-21 for the most part (with exceptions ofc). A 20 year old girl does not have the sexual experience and mindset of "only caring for a guy until i sleep with him". I know A LOT of girls that started to have legit feelings for a guy and got devastated when things didn't turn out well BEFORE she slept with him. A lot of girls will not even have sex before being in a relationship, to them kissing is the equivalent of "we are not friends maybe we should get exclusive". Keep in mind we are talking about european girls here, they are not as sexual and wild as american girls.

I heavily agree with the idea of not getting too invested before she gets invested in you also. I did it in the past and it hurt like HELL after.

2. Of course you will not be a needy bitch but imagine you go on a few dates with a girl (before sex but maybe kissing) and she asks you whether you are dating anyone else. What are you supposed to say? If you choose not to reveal anything then she will just assume you are dating others and will get hurt and stuff like that. 

So my question is simply: How would you recommend me to handle such situations, where this stuff gets brought up.

 

Dude, european girls are as sexual and wild as American girls, probably even more. It sounds like you severely lack on volume or/and you're chasing girls who are ~18 years old who are afraid of everything and are likely sexually repressed.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Hello from Russia

[Derek White]

@Leo Gura Read your recent posts on dating. 

It seems, according to you, men have to be strong and independent providers to attract women. But why would you need a relationship if you are that independent, especially one in which you are like a parent? It seems you would only be in the relationship for her body. I guess that's the whole point, to not be needy and get in a relationship on your own terms.

Does this advice apply to all cultures and all generations? 

How do you explain popularity of Kpop singers and other feminine men like Michael Jackson?

Why does your advice sound like traditional conservative advice, it seems like Dennis Prager, Ben Shapiro, and Steven Crowder would agree with your advice to men? 

What are you basing this theory off of? Your limited personal experience, research papers, what? 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Derek White

[Asma]

11 minutes ago, Derek White said:

@Leo Gura Read your recent posts on dating. 

It seems, according to you, men have to be strong and independent providers to attract women. But why would you need a relationship if you are that independent, especially one in which you are like a parent? It seems you would only be in the relationship for her body. 

Does this advice apply to all cultures?

How do you explain popularity of Kpop singers and other feminine men like Michael Jackson?

Why does your advice sound like traditional conservative advice, it seems like Dennis Prager, Ben Shapiro, and Steven Crowder would agree with your advice to men? 

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't underestimate how selfish and careless more girls are. She isn't some saint. She's blindly following her own survival agenda. She will not give two fucks about flaking on you.

Yeah, well, it goes both ways. Hurt feelings come with the territory of dating. Most girls don't give a fuck if they step all over your survival agenda.

My personal rule is that there is no relationship until sex.

But you may feel otherwise. I set my rules based on my deep experience of what works and what does not.

Of course you can try doing it the other way and get some results, but it's not a good overall dating strategy.

Remember, that is HER frame. You can choose to play by her frame or set your own frame. Will setting your own frame lose you some girls? Sure, but it will get you many more others. As a general rule, the guy should be setting the frame, not the girl. At least from the guy's POV that makes the most sense. If you like being a pussy you can buy into her frame.

Ahahahahaha!

That's none of her business.

If she is asking this kind of question you already did something wrong.

From the moment she meets you she should realize that you are a high value guy who is highly social and desirable to many girls. She should feel that if she does not snap you up soon you will move on to other girls. She should feel like you could bang a new girl every night if you wanted to.

First cum, first served

Good!

No, she won't get hurt. She will desire you even more because she recognizes how attractive and high-value you are.

Attraction is highly counter-intuitive. You think that by being meek and humble and loyal and nice that this will make girls attracted to you, but it's the opposite. With that strategy you will lose many girls and mostly attract the weakest and lowest-value ones.

A girl's fantasy is to lock down a player/knight in shining armor who is a pussy magnet. Not some meek nice guy who will beg her for sex like a panhandler begs for nickles. Regardless of whatever bullshit story she tells you, she wants a high-value guy. Period. No amount of talking or excuses will change that. And the #1 clue of a high-value guy is that he can get laid any day he wants to.

One of the most attractive things you can do is to show up to a party with a bunch of hot girls at your side, orbiting around you like groupies. This will make you appear WAY more attractive to all the other girls, creating a feeding frenzy for your dick.

Deep down she wants to know that you could fuck any girl in the world, but you choose to only fuck her because she is so special to you. That is her ultimate fantasy.

If the particular girl you want is insecure, you can dial all this down a bit. But there is no shame at all for her to perceive you as sexually active. As a man, you don't need to hide the fact that you're a bit of a player. Don't explicitly say so. It should just be a vibe you give off. Girls will smell it.

Consider Brad Pitt. Every girl knows he can fuck whoever he wants whenever he wants -- and probably does so. And this is why every girl dreams of landing him.

If you want the most brutal truth, dating multiple women not only doesn't hurt your chances, it increases it, and the more women you date the higher your chances get. This is so true that it can get easily abused to sociopathic levels. PUAs abuse this principle all the time. I don't recommend you do that. I recommend you find a nice balance that does not crush girls hearts nor inflate your ego. You can be strong and assertive without being a total scumbag.

 Again, it's true when you only talk about attraction, and it certainly works with the majority of women. Not that the rest isn't biologically attracted to what you just describe, but if we give my example, when I smell the vibe of playfulness, even If I'm really attracted to the guy, I choose to backup (by playfulness I don't precisely mean a guy who is dating multiple women in the beginning, because for me it totally makes sense, but, the vibe). 

I think that either men nor women should be exclusive unless there is a sufficient engagement from the other part, but why does it have to be the woman that is slightly more engaged ? Why shouldn't men or women follow their intuition and the product of their thinking instead of rigid rules that are impossible to break ? It makes me uncomfortable when I see rules in dating for both sexes, what we need to have in my opinion, is general principles that we follow, rules can never match every situation and every person (man or woman).

[Keyhole]

For me, if a guy did not have options I would be concerned.  I would wonder why this might be, if he was safe, sane, reliable, ect.  If he was investing all his time in just me, this would cause me to want to leave - that is too much pressure.  It is better to ease into a relationship slowly.  I did not always used to have this sentiment, but as I have gotten older, I do now.
I want to see how he is with other women, how he treats them before I make a choice.  I may not want to get attached right away.  Nor he.  It feels inauthentic to rush in anyways, each time that I have - it ends up devolving into something I don't want.  Slow and steady.
Each time it does not work out, I have an easier time letting go, and I feel gratitude, like a slave set free from the confines of the illusion of endearment; it's such a fantastic feeling to get away. 
At this point, I am almost completely disinterested in relationships and sex (due somewhat to autoimmune issues, can't really commit to anything; used to love sex, now the drive is gone) so I would prefer the guy to have options.  I don't want to hurt people if they get attached either and I wanna bounce, I want them to have more than one connection.  That is only fair.

Basically the romance without doing the deed.  I don't need the perks, either.  And I don't care if the other girl gets the guy.  Whatever.
For some women, this won't work though.  Every person is unique and so you will have to ask them individually how they feel about this as you get to know them, and be honest with what you are doing and be open.  Then it is on them to choose.  If you want to date a lot of women, go for it, if you do not then don't.  Don't limit yourself for another person's expectations, find someone who is in line with your own.

For me, it will always be whatever until it isn't.
And if it becomes whatever for him, then it's automatically whatever for me too, but forever and irretrievably so.

I'm not a catch btw, just giving you another girl's alternative viewpoint as a dismissive avoidant attachment style.
Maybe another chick will be so into you that it will drive her mad, been there.  Usually this happens without communication, so be as upfront as you can with people.  No secrets.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Keyhole