Space Being an Illusion

[Vibroverse]

Rupert Spira says that space also is an illusion, and I don't really get it. I understand that space is like a dream space and reality is consciousness. But even on 5meoDMT I haven't understood what space being an illusion means. Everything is consciousness and all is one, yes, but how on earth is space itself an illusion, where is it taking place? Because creation must be happening in a space, but what does it mean that space itself is an illusion, that it has been created. Please don't tell me about big bang etc, because we're still imagining a space within which the big bang occured. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Vibroverse

[allislove]

Have you ever felt that there is literally no distance between 'you' and 'another person'? 

Space&time happens in/is You. You are Infinite, meaning not finite, meaning 'not bound by anything'. 

[Vibroverse]

I experienced that, but even then there still is a, like, experience of space and objects.

[allislove]

@Vibroverse

Space makes sense only in terms of the distance. There is no distance, so there is no space, there is only consciousness. 

Objects makes sense only in terms of the borders/separation. There are no borders, so there are no objects as something separated. There is only appearance of objects, that is consciousness.

The popular exercise is to close the eyes and investigate the bodily sensations, to see the illusion of borders. Another exercise is to put attention on 'I am', then move attention in any direction, then continue moving in that direction. Soon you will notice that there is no 'end' of this 'space'/'I am'. It means it's infinite, has no limits. How many infinite 'things' there may be simultaneously? Right, only one, it's you. 

 

[Tim R]

3 hours ago, Vibroverse said:

how on earth is space itself an illusion, where is it taking place? 

Lol nowhere. Space can't be anywhere.  Just like time can't be any-when. 

@Vibroverse You're not in space, "space" is in you, or more precisely; what you call "space" is actually you.

When you look at a tree, you think "i am here and over there is the tree, and we both are in space."

But that's simply not true. You are not looking at a tree within space, what you call "tree" and "space" are both you and you are "the looking" itself. And so there's nobody who's looking at anything anywhere, only awareness, happening nowhere and to nobody.

 

How much space is there between yourself and yourself?

[Leo Gura]

Space is actually nothing.

[mandyjw]

If you take one thing and draw a line through it, you have two things. Duality, light and dark, self and other, past and future, etc, is present as object(s) and the space which allows the object(s) to be defined and have existence. Exist, means literally to stick out. You cannot exist if there's nothing for you to stand out from. And there isn't. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by mandyjw

[Heart of Space]

Space literally doesn't exist.  Everything exists relative to everything else.  

If there exists one object in a universe is it possible for it to move in any direction?  No, because there is nothing else to be relative to in terms of location.  The single object literally exists perpetually in the center of that universe.  Infinite nothing expanding outward forever on all sides.  

Create a universe with two objects and you can now move each object relative to eachother.  So, the appearance of distance or space is created by the objects themselves, therefore it is a property of the objects.  The mere existence of the second object creates the possibility of the appearance of space. The space in between has no properties. Nothing changed with the space itself, the only thing that changed from the first example universe is the existence of a second object.  

Space, distance, or dimensions implies the properties existing within nothingness.  Nothingness has no properties, there are zero dimensions.  There is only the appearance of dimensions because of relativity of things or objects that exist within nothingness.  There is only ever present eternal nothing.  

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, Vibroverse said:

I understand that space is like a dream space 

There ya go.

Imagine you are dreaming that you are in a forest. Is not space in this dream an illusion. Is the distance between the tree and dog in the tree really 10 meters?

6 hours ago, Vibroverse said:

Because creation must be happening in a space, but what does it mean that space itself is an illusion, that it has been created. 

As you create a dream, in what space is this dreamworld being created? Are two things within the dream in separate space? Or is that dream space an illusion? 
 

Ultimately, imagination = real. And illusions are both illusory and non-illusory. Most people can easily see the non-illusory nature of reality. They can easily see that the cup in my hand is in a different space than the computer on the other side of the room. So there is no need to articulate the non-illusory nature of space. For them, their realization is the illusory nature of space. Yet realizing the illusory nature of space, does not nullify the non-illusory nature. The hurdle to get over is the belief that one must reject the non-illusory nature of space to accept the illusory nature of space.

If a mind was locked into the illusory nature of space, it would be locked in the opposite orientation. Here, we would need to point to the actuality of space. Then, we can explore domains intersecting space and no-space.

 

[Jodistrict]

Kant placed space as one of the categories of mind that we only experience as phenomena and not the noumena which we never can know.

“Space is not an empirical concept which has been derived from outer experiences. For in order that certain sensations be referred to something outside me (that is, to something in another region of space from that in which I find myself), and similarly in order that I may be able to represent them as outside and alongside one another, and accordingly as not only different but as in different places, the representation of space must already underlie them [dazu muß die Vorstellung des Raumes schon zum Grunde liegen]. Therefore, the representation of space cannot be obtained through experience from the relations of outer appearance; this outer experience is itself possible at all only through that representation.”

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-spacetime/#OrigOurReprSpac

 

[vladorion]

Space is inferred, it doesn't exist in direct experience.

[Vibroverse]

There might be no real distance between my body and Mars, yes, but as Kant says the frames of time and space come intrinsically in the being, in consciousness. So no matter how weirdly and mind bogglingly we experience space and time, we still are experiencing space and time. And I understand that it all can actually be nothing and all that is including every form can be nothing, but we cannot even imagine outside of the frames of time and space. Even when we are dreaming there is a time and space continuum there. We can jump from time to time, space to space, like teleportation or time travel, but it all still happens in consciousness in a time and space frame. Then I understand how everything actually is nothing and that there is only one awareness which is all there is, but there still is this me that is experiencing itself as a being in space and time, but yeah I also understand that I am space and time themselves, that it is all my motion as awareness, as consciousness, but then does that mean there literally are infinite parallel dreams going on all stacked onto one another in a sense that through imagination awareness is experiencing one of them? And I think this is the case because everything implies that to me really, that reality is imagination. 

[Phyllis Wagner]

Imagine you make a picture of a room and print it out. if you look at the picture there appears to be 3 dimensional space, however there is no real distance going into the picture, all the colors are sticking directly at distance 0.

I hope this explains, at least this is my understanding of it.

[Vibroverse]

26 minutes ago, Phyllis Wagner said:

Imagine you make a picture of a room and print it out. if you look at the picture there appears to be 3 dimensional space, however there is no real distance going into the picture, all the colors are sticking directly at distance 0.

I hope this explains, at least this is my understanding of it.

Your profile picture explains that ? Yeah i agree, but in that sense we are still imagining two dimensions where the illusion of three dimensions is playing out. But i think if it can be like we can imagine one dimension on which that two dimensional screen illusion is playing like we can imagine two dimensions being able to create the illusion of three dimensions. And then the zero dimension on which it is playing. That would be the zero point awareness. 

[Nemra]

The meaning of space will change when you change the meaning of yourself.

Look around and find yourself. Can you find it?

Do it until you realize that there wasn't a "you" in the first place.

And the distance of a thing will become zero and there will be no space left because things are defined by you and relative to you.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Understander

[inFlow]

@Vibroverse Become conscious that what you see in front of you has no space between you and the object.

The space which you see must become sort of a 2D view.

When you look at a tv screen and lets say a movie is on, it looks like there is depth in that movie (space between a character and some background stuff lets say a house) but you are literally looking at a 2D view as your TV screen, start to contemplate and look for that 2D flat view in your own consciousness, thus you can realise that there is no space.

Good luck. Hope I helped.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Space and time are truly relativistic concepts. From the perspective of a photon, time and space do not exist, and the principle of equivalence in general relativity proves that the observation of any observer is not something fundamental, but just relativistic. Ergo, to put it simply, space and time do not exist objectively outside of you. I know it's a scientific approach, but realizing its consequences and significance, similar to Bell's or Godel's Theorem, disarms your faith in the objectivity of this illusion at a very basic level and helps a lot in your work on the development of consciousness. Real unification, real holism

[allislove]

You never moved even on inch. You are not just seeing by eyes, the whole seeing is perceived by actual you. The whole visual field happens in actual you. The visual field always changes, appears/disappears, but not you.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@allislove Well said:)

[Vibroverse]

6 hours ago, Understander said:

The meaning of space will change when you change the meaning of yourself.

Look around and find yourself. Can you find it?

Do it until you realize that there wasn't a "you" in the first place.

And the distance of a thing will become zero and there will be no space left because things are defined by you and relative to you.

You mean there is no me other than the One, as the separate ego me? Because what the heck does you don't exist mean really?