Being in solitude or going out there to overcome my social anxiety?

[fopylo]

@Loving Radiance I don't know if I understand what you're saying. I mean, I came here to maybe get advice on how to do it. In the meantime, all I know is to practice being in solitude to sort of recollect myself, but don't know. I'm seeking for some better solution

[fopylo]

@Nahm I do have social anxiety though. I haven't laid out here my whole history but basically I've started developing it ever since I was like 12-13.

Also I don't think I quite understood this:

43 minutes ago, Nahm said:

because you were essentially jealous of others who are focusing on, and creating & experiencing, what they want. 

 

[fopylo]

@Farnaby Yeah, sometimes I am not really sure. The thing is that biking alone and stopping at a quite place to just be there, can feel a bit uncomfortable at times. I wouldn't say it's always relaxing and avoidant

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

I do have social anxiety though.

If you say “I have a soccer ball”, and someone says “where is it”, you could say “it’s right here” and point to it. It’s something you have. 

If you say “I have social anxiety” and someone says “where is it”... you can’t point to it, because it’s something you’re thinking & believing about yourself.

Quote

I haven't laid out here my whole history but basically I've started developing it ever since I was like 12-13.

The key there is as you said, you started developing it, creating the belief about yourself, at that age. It didn’t feel good then, it hasn’t felt good ever since, and it doesn’t feel good now, because it wasn’t true in the first place. 

Quote

Also I don't think I quite understood this:

because you were essentially jealous of others who are focusing on, and creating & experiencing, what they want. 

Consider a comparison example of Bill and Bob:

Both Bill and Bob realize at a young age they don’t want exactly what folks around them want. Maybe they don’t care for dogma or authority, maybe they want to cross dress, maybe they are gay or bi, etc. They are both at first, uncomfortable about this, but they go about that uncomfortableness very differently:

Bill thinks about how he is different from others and creates the belief that in some way, this means something is wrong with him. When Bill is around others, this belief flares up. BIll doesn’t inspect, assumes it’s because of others, and creates a label to cover the initial belief that something is wrong with him, and that label is social anxiety. Bill has deflected, or, rather than taking responsibility and inspecting what he is thinking which doesn’t feel good, he blames other people in a general non-specific way, believing it has something to do with more than what Bill thinks of himself....and thus Bill avoids feeling, which was telling him the belief was bogus from the get go, by avoiding social interactions. Bill then misses out on the joy & fun of social interactions & relationships, yet rather than inspecting his beliefs, and putting feeling first, Bill begins to resent others who ‘don’t have social anxiety’. “Must be nice to be them” Bill thinks.  

Bill continues feeling terrible through out his entire life, as he reinforces the belief, that he feels terrible, because something is wrong with him, because he is different, and now he also feels terrible because ‘he has social anxiety’.

 

Bob takes ownership of what’s going on with him, and inspects why he doesn’t feel great, and notices whenever he thinks ‘something’s wrong with him’, that thought doesn’t feel good. Bob realizes he is feeling his thoughts...and others are feeling their thoughts. So Bob realizes that if others judge him for this way he is unique, others will feel the discord of their judgmental thoughts - not Bob...because Bob took ownership and inspected, Bob realizes he is feeling his thoughts, and that the thought “something is wrong with me” is a thought which does not feel good.

Since what Bob wants is to feel great, Bob recognizes we’re all different, and we’re all feeling our own thoughts, and it has nothing to do with society or anyone else. Bob, unfettered, unblocked by bogus beliefs, is full of the delightful inspirational energy of our source, and enjoys an organic inherent confidence, passion and desire, and Bob rocks the shit outta Bob’s life. 

 

One day, Bill meets Bob, and Bill thinks and most importantly, honestly expresses how he feels....(jealousy)....”I wanna be like that Bob guy...happy, successful, loving life, creating purpose, driven, enjoying healthy happy relationships”.

Bills tells Bob this, and asks Bob for advice, and Bob says “Bill, you’re focused on thinking about yourself.... on what you have (social anxiety)”. “I’m focused on what I want, simply because it feels good to me.”

Bob never “lays out his whole history”...because Bob is focused on what feels good to him, on what he wants, and is receiving it and co-creating it. Bob tells the story Bob wants to experience, and in doing so, reality becomes it, and Bob relishes in this experience. 

 

[Farnaby]

@Nahm wow, that was a beautiful explanation of this "issue".

I have to add though that it's not a conscious decision to believe those thoughts or to feel anxious in social situations. 

Often, it's an automatic response of our nervous system that perceives a threat where there is none, due to past trauma. 

Of course this response is reinforced by the story you tell yourself and by avoiding social interactions which reinforces beliefs like "other people are dangerous", "they will judge me", "I'm in danger", "I have social anxiety" and so on. 

Just wanted to explain this because we can easily shame ourselves for not being able to not feel anxious if we think we're choosing to create that reality. Maybe in a sense we are, but at the same time it's an unconscious process until we work on it.

[Nahm]

@Farnaby

Yes, shame would be another thought that isn’t true and is felt as such. 

 

[Farnaby]

@Nahm you read my mind. While I was typing the part about "shame" I literally thought: "of course, this too is due to believing something like I shouldn't be feeling this way", which isn't true, like you said  

[Loving Radiance]

On 11.3.2021 at 0:51 PM, fopylo said:

I don't know if I understand what you're saying. I mean, I came here to maybe get advice on how to do it. In the meantime, all I know is to practice being in solitude to sort of recollect myself, but don't know. I'm seeking for some better solution

I am sorry, I assumed that you already knew what to do because you described it that detailed:

On 11.3.2021 at 10:04 AM, fopylo said:

Well, by dissociation I mean that

my attention, thoughts and emotions are not aligned,

which make me

feel out of my body, out of my own experience, a bit dizzy, and scattered all around - Not really here.

The fact that

I'm not capable yet of really experiencing an experience

(yes, as weird as it sounds. Like I said before, because

I don't really feel here),

makes it

easy to get lost and disconnected from simply being and feeling good on my own.

The

dissociation is even stronger when I'm in crowds or with another person,

since my social anxiety plays a bit and I tend to

hide my real self

subconsciously. So because

I'm not really capable of feeling connection,

then it does produce feelings of loneliness

It is simple, just turn the around not good feeling states and focus on the turnaround.

• Instead of "I don't really feel here" focus on "I want to feel here".
• "easy to get lost and disconnected from simply being and feeling good on my own" --> "I want to feel centered and always at home by simply being and feeling good on my own"
• and so on...

Ime, social anxiety was busted through going to almost every social setting available of people I know and things/topics I am interested in. I felt at ease by focusing on enjoying the presence of the people around me & by focusing on connecting to their being. There is no disconnection; when you are aware of them you are automatically connected to them. You can be in a mood of not wanting to chat with people while feeling connected to them - nothing wrong with that, just feel their presence and be present with them.

Make a list of 10 things you appreciated about people at the end of every day. Something you recognized that makes you grateful to feel their presence (or "absence" of that).

Edited March 13, 2021 by Loving Radiance

[kag101]

On 10/03/2021 at 5:53 PM, fopylo said:

first build the foundation of connecting to yourself through solitude, and then to connect, act and create through this center you've built

You need both. Spend time with others, and then have moments of introspection.

Being alone for too much time is extremely toxic.

[fopylo]

@Nahm Oh damn, what a story. I enjoyed reading your example, however there were a few things that made me a bit uncomfortable. I mean, I'm certainly not as extreme as Bill, as I have researched quite a lot about social anxiety, the mind, and self improvement in general. I do understand that those are beliefs and that my growth and overcoming of it will have to be internal. Also right here -

On 3/11/2021 at 3:02 PM, Nahm said:

Bob never “lays out his whole history”...because Bob is focused on what feels good to him, on what he wants, and is receiving it and co-creating it.

I think I understand that I'm having a victim identity to some level, since I'm always worried about not telling people my story (but it makes sense, since by telling them more about me I'll receive the best help, no?). The thing is that I'm at the stage where I'm starting to feel good, but that means destroying this identity which is really hard because I'm used to go back there all the time (I've learned that this way I can do self improvement better).

However, I want to mention 2 things:
One, I didn't really like this:

On 3/11/2021 at 3:02 PM, Nahm said:

“Bill, you’re focused on thinking about yourself.... on what you have (social anxiety)”

It implies that social anxiety is a choice, like I choose to focus on thinking about those anxiety-producing thoughts. In some sense I am actually creating it, but it is subconscious, out of my awareness. And choice comes when I'm free, so basically I cannot choose to relinquish those thoughts. Say that to anyone with social anxiety and you bet they haven't tried not focusing on the thoughts.
Also, I want to add that social anxiety will not disappear or will be much relieved by simply not thinking about it for a moment (I feel like this is obvious). Even the constant behavior of suppressing the thoughts/ destroying it/ running from it will certainly not help for the long run. You burnout eventually.

[Nahm]

56 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@Nahm Oh damn, what a story. I enjoyed reading your example, however there were a few things that made me a bit uncomfortable. I mean, I'm certainly not as extreme as Bill, as I have researched quite a lot about social anxiety, the mind, and self improvement in general. I do understand that those are beliefs and that my growth and overcoming of it will have to be internal.

Sometimes more extreme examples are effective in drawing out the point, or the distinction & difference being communicated a bit more. That can also (if you deem it so) be helpful in beginning to recognize nothing anyone says actually makes you feel uncomfortable. You’re not feeling the resonance of sound with feeling, but of your thoughts with feeling. Also, it’s a hypothetical example, and not something intended to be about you personally. It’s intended to help you via the consideration of a perspective other than your current perspective, which doesn’t feel good to you. As you mentioned, in recognizing those are beliefs... focus instead on what you do want. A belief is a thought you repeatedly focus on. Choose better feeling thoughts about yourself, feel the truth & alignment of this. More thought about there being a problem or something wrong with you recreates the discord with feeling, and doesn’t ‘solve the thought’...it’s really just more focusing on what you don’t want, what doesn’t feel good, to you. 

Make a dreamboard. Express & understand arising emotions, rather than framing up a separate self which has something it has to ‘overcome’. Let go of what you yourself do not want. 

Consider researching a lot on what you do want. 

Quote

Also right here -

I think I understand that I'm having a victim identity to some level, since I'm always worried about not telling people my story (but it makes sense, since by telling them more about me I'll receive the best help, no?).

Yes, and (imo) the best ‘help’ is not telling the story that you don’t even like to focus on. Time is precious, life is short, focus is power. You’re experiencing whatever story you’re telling. You are free to start telling the story of everything you do want, and you will experience it. You are so absolutely free that you can tell the story of ‘stuck’ or ‘need’ or ‘must overcome’, and you will be experiencing that. 

You can express how you feel now - without telling a story of a past. What you’re directly experiencing now is actual, a past is not. Identifying by recreating the same story makes it seem so...makes it seem as if that is who you are, now. Experience the change in feeling & momentum, by choosing to tell the story of wanted. Allow emotions to arise and be expressed. 

Quote

The thing is that I'm at the stage where I'm starting to feel good, but that means destroying this identity which is really hard because I'm used to go back there all the time (I've learned that this way I can do self improvement better).

Continue on the focusing of that which is feeling good. I don’t presume the thoughts of “destroying this identity” or “self improvement” feel good. You don’t have to ‘go back and destroy anything’...and there’s nothing wrong at all with you such that you ‘need improvement’.  Trust the guidance of feeling in regard to those thoughts. You can begin focusing on what you want, now, and you will love how it feels, because you are a creator. It’s a pointing of an orientation of aligning with what is true, actual, and feels amazing...yet, that is always up to you, because you are absolutely free. 

Quote

However, I want to mention 2 things:
One, I didn't really like this:

It implies that social anxiety is a choice, like I choose to focus on thinking about those anxiety-producing thoughts. In some sense I am actually creating it, but it is subconscious, out of my awareness.

You are writing about it. You are aware of it. You’re experiencing the momentum of your creating. It is not a matter of fault, but of focus. There’s just no ‘getting around’ now.  When those thoughts arise, you feel them, and they do not feel good, which is why you are writing about it, which is great. You can continue focusing on what didn’t feel good to you in the first place, and still doesn’t. You can also listen to feeling, and focus on what does feel good to you, what you do want to experience. You can frame it up that you need something, but I am suggesting it’s a matter of letting go of beliefs about yourself which don’t feel good - to you - and focusing on what does feel good - to you. You might be missing that I am making a case for you feeling amazing, better & better, shifting the momentum, experiencing all that you desire to experience.  I could not be more ‘on your side’. ?

Quote

And choice comes when I'm free, so basically I cannot choose to relinquish those thoughts. Say that to anyone with social anxiety and you bet they haven't tried not focusing on the thoughts.

You’re already free, but are believing you need something more to be able to focus on what you want. Dreamboard makes this incredibly easy. Expressing emotions instead of avoiding them makes life amazing and worthwhile. It literally makes sense of experience.  

I don’t need to say anything to anyone with social anxiety, as I have directly experienced those thoughts about ‘myself’. 

You’re thinking & communicating in double negatives. If & when you make a dreamboard, accommodate the habit & change the focus to what you do want, by making a list of everything you know you don’t want to continue experiencing, and then write the opposites (what you do want) on your board, and focus on that, and your experience will become that (it already is), and again, since you’ll be focusing on what feels good to you, that which you desire to experience, you’ll feel, good. 

Quote

Also, I want to add that social anxiety will not disappear or will be much relieved by simply not thinking about it for a moment (I feel like this is obvious). Even the constant behavior of suppressing the thoughts/ destroying it/ running from it will certainly not help for the long run. You burnout eventually.

Don’t suppress, destroy, or run. That is the suffering. 

Express. Feel. Release. 

 

[fopylo]

@Loving Radiance Yeah, so since I've started learning more about this issue it has been easier for me to recognize what I want more in my life - I want to experience more, to feel more, the freedom to be unconscious, to be more centered/collected, to feel good on my own, to have a stronger locus of control.
I didn't quite understand what you meant by that:

On 3/12/2021 at 0:57 PM, Loving Radiance said:

There is no disconnection, when you are aware of them you are automatically connected to them.

Oh and this part...

On 3/12/2021 at 0:57 PM, Loving Radiance said:

You can be in a mood of not wanting to chat with people while feeling connected to them, nothing wrong with that, just feel their presence and be present with them.

(continuation) I feel that for the simplicity of feeling connected to their presence is something that I tend to resist so much. Lately I have been practicing being more honest with my thoughts, feelings and desires with people I know. However I still notice that in the exact moment of sharing I tend to go back to dissociation and become unconscious. So basically I'm sharing things which were from the past (even if like a day ago, or an hour ago), and never really from the exact present moment.
I don't feel like I'm directly speaking what's rising in me at the moment, but rather delivering past information (and probably even altering it a bit) while feeling disconnected and not speaking from my center.
I like to imagine it as like a kid who is sharing his true feelings in the moment to his friend/parent/person (what I'm aiming for). From what I understand now, there isn't really a bad emotion. In fact, what I wish is to have the freedom to feel anything, even if it is anger and sadness. What I consider the real bad feeling is that of resistance, which can be attached in any situation to any feeling. This resistance, those fears, all this fricking illusion is what I really want out of my life. As I'm progressing with this work I start to shift my perspectives a bit about what I'm trying to achieve and what I'm trying to avoid. I do think many times that external things can help solve the problem, including feelings I'll get from external things. I feel by now that what I really need is to let go of the resistance, since I'll never find this paradise I'm looking for. It will always seem further and further, even if I'm starting to feel and design a plan in my head, it will just make it feel more convincing

[Loving Radiance]

4 hours ago, fopylo said:

I didn't quite understand what you meant by that:

On 12.3.2021 at 11:57 AM, Loving Radiance said:

There is no disconnection, when you are aware of them you are automatically connected to them.

Anybody you see is connected to you because they are in your perception.

Where should be disconnection?

4 hours ago, fopylo said:

Oh and this part...

On 12.3.2021 at 11:57 AM, Loving Radiance said:

You can be in a mood of not wanting to chat with people while feeling connected to them, nothing wrong with that, just feel their presence and be present with them.

It was more for myself, but I felt it was maybe good for you too. I was with people with which I felt to be connected on a being level but felt not to be in the mood to connect on a human level.

You can feel appreciative & grateful and enjoy their presence. If you feel you want your connection to be expressed in _____ way, then do that.

4 hours ago, fopylo said:

What I consider the real bad feeling is that of resistance, which can be attached in any situation to any feeling.

Every morning I go to the lake for a cold bath. Every single time there is resistance to go in the water. However, I go through the motions and somehow end up enjoying it because it was not as painful as the resistance made it to be. Meditation helped to feel that it indeed sensations arising. The first times I went with some friends and now I keep track of every day.

If an unpleasant state of emotion is continuously arising while you do any activity, you can experiment to do that activity in another way. Find something in these activities with attached uninspiring emotion that you enjoy. It could be going through a boring lecture which brings up frustration: you experiment doing the exercises instead and then occasionally go back to the lecture to find specific equations or what not - more fun through direct application and less exposure to the lecture while you learn the same topics.

4 hours ago, fopylo said:

However I still notice that in the exact moment of sharing I tend to go back to dissociation and become unconscious. So basically I'm sharing things which were from the past, and never really from the exact present moment.

Try out meditation with labeling things in your perception as they arise. "Thought", "sound", "temperature", "subtle pressure"...

4 hours ago, fopylo said:

I'll never find this paradise I'm looking for.

Tune in yourself. The ground for all experience is that paradise:

Quote

Beyond thoughts
judgement,
interpretation,
past and future
is love omnipresent,
unlimited & unconditional.

This is being grounded.

This is peace that is only found at home.

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Loving Radiance

[fopylo]

@Nahm Sorry for a very late response (usually I would prefer writing when I feel at a higher state of awareness, which isn't all the time). So now I've realized that I really tend to hold myself to my past and I fear change in myself. As an example - I wake up, do my morning routine (meditate, healthy breakfast, some brain training), and then - I'm stuck. I'm very used to spend the day thinking about how I need to improve (and reinforcing the victim identity). I have bigger goals, but I am used to think that I need to overcome more obstacles before I can start. I have dreams of creating music, having a business, and more that don't often pop up...
There is a lot of unconscious fears and distractions that I tend to have. Basically I am at a state where I've dipped myself in spiritual teachings, and so now I'm somehow trying to intermingle the self help teachings with spirituality and it makes me even more confused and hard to start. Let's say affirmations - people use it to create a self image/empowering identity for themselves, but in spirituality they teach that not having an identity and not attaching to anything will make you the happiest. The same goes with having beliefs about certain things. Also striving for success vs striving for happiness. The combination of spiritual mastery and material success seem contradictory and paradoxical to integrate them together.

On 3/13/2021 at 6:04 PM, Nahm said:

Expressing emotions instead of avoiding them makes life amazing and worthwhile

So let's say I'm really angry, sad, shocked, curious, or feeling like doing a devilish act - Then what should I do about it? In most cases I suppress those feelings because it feels very unconscious (inferior) and 'low level', and yet I feel like I might be doing something wrong.
If this is the case, then we can basically say that all emotions and expressions are ok, and resistance is what creates the notions of "good/bad feelings", which is an illusion? I feel like I'm getting sense of some truth I've been longing to resolve. I've believed for a long time that experience in itself is way better than no experience, even if the experience is frustration or anger or some other not so comfortable feeling

 

On 3/13/2021 at 6:04 PM, Nahm said:

by making a list of everything you know you don’t want to continue experiencing, and then write the opposites (what you do want) on your board, and focus on that, and your experience will become that (it already is)

Isn't this sort of an attachment to an outcome? Because I desire a certain vision, but I might then resist anything else that isn't aligned with this dream life.

[Nahm]

59 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@Nahm Sorry for a very late response (usually I would prefer writing when I feel at a higher state of awareness, which isn't all the time). So now I've realized that I really tend to hold myself to my past and I fear change in myself. As an example - I wake up, do my morning routine (meditate, healthy breakfast, some brain training), and then - I'm stuck. I'm very used to spend the day thinking about how I need to improve (and reinforcing the victim identity). I have bigger goals, but I am used to think that I need to overcome more obstacles before I can start. I have dreams of creating music, having a business, and more that don't often pop up...
There is a lot of unconscious fears and distractions that I tend to have. Basically I am at a state where I've dipped myself in spiritual teachings, and so now I'm somehow trying to intermingle the self help teachings with spirituality and it makes me even more confused and hard to start. Let's say affirmations - people use it to create a self image/empowering identity for themselves, but in spirituality they teach that not having an identity and not attaching to anything will make you the happiest. The same goes with having beliefs about certain things. Also striving for success vs striving for happiness. The combination of spiritual mastery and material success seem contradictory and paradoxical to integrate them together.

This is more or less a transition everyone goes through, yet not everyone frames it up as you are. 

When you were little riding a bike seemed like a big deal, but from experiencing, it turns out it’s not a big deal...life & experience is ‘just like riding a bike’. When you believe (now) the things you want to create and experience, are ‘BIG GOALS’; creating music, creating a business, etc...you then compensate for the discord of that belief, with the secondary belief that there are “obstacles to overcome”...whereas a kid just gets on the bike & typically isn’t thinking about himself. Doesn’t think much of the “before I can start” narrative...because kids are empty / innocent, they don’t “know all the stuff” you believe you know about “you” (somethings wrong with me, I needs to improve, I needs x, y & z before starting, yada yada).

As you experience those “BIG GOALS” they are realized not to ever have been big at all - that’s just your interpretation - and it does feel off to you, but you’re kind of ignoring that feeling and not reinterpreting...because you think you’re “right”, about your beliefs, about you, and time, and experience. Everything...every experience...is the same as riding a bike. Ya fall, ya get hurt, ya get up and keep going...and that is how you discover who you really are - not by “thinking about yourself”. There was a point in your life when putting a fork in your mouth, and taking a shit by yourself was a BIG GOAL, a BIG DEAL. Not such a big thing now is it? 

Mindfully reinterpret anxiety, nervousness, etc - as excitement. You actually love excitement. Discover this in direct experience, by slowing down and focusing on interpretations that feel...good...to...you. 

No offense on a personal level I hope, but....”a higher state of awareness”...”how I need to improve”...”self help teachings”...”spirituality”...really stop and question what the hell you’re even talking about. Try pointing to any of those, and you’ll begin to notice it’s all conceptual abstraction (thought attachment / monkey mind). The ideas are not the actuality, the ideas are for sifting & sorting through what you do and don’t prefer to create & experience. Stop staring at the pointing fingers (teachers, teaching, narrative, etc), and look at the moon (focus - thoughts - creating the life you desire to, that you prefer). Allow the teachers and teachings to serve you in the way they intend. Love em back by getting the message, letting them go, and ‘going to the moon’.  

“There is a lot of unconscious fears”....I’d reinterpret that to coincide with direct experience. Nothing which you are conscious of (in this case, in feeling) can earnestly be said to be “unconscious”. Sticking with your current interpretation here is the literal creating of distraction. The connecting of those two dots, is emotional suppression. You believe what you want is such a BIG DEAL because you’re refocusing over & over on thoughts about yourself, being small. This is the inward orientation, or, general thinking about yourself. Flip to an outward orientation, by making a dreamboard, and focusing on what you want to create & experience, and let the thinking about yourself, the beliefs, and the misinterpretations come up and out effortlessly as you do. 

Quote

So let's say I'm really angry, sad, shocked, curious, or feeling like doing a devilish act - Then what should I do about it? In most cases I suppress those feelings because it feels very unconscious (inferior) and 'low level', and yet I feel like I might be doing something wrong.

When we suppress feeling for a while, we miss that we are judging ourself & that’s what doesn’t feel good. There’s nothing unconscious or inferior going on. The thoughts you’re focused on feel terrible because of how far they are from ‘who’ you really are. What to do about it? Be honest with yourself when a thought feels off, and inspect it, and realign it with the goodness of your true nature. Put how you feel light years ahead of what you think. Consider the profundity of this - nobody gives two shits what I think. Nobody even knows what, or if, I’m thinking at all. What a fool I’d be to focus on thoughts that don’t feel good to me, given I’m the only one feeling the discord...and experiencing my creating being on “stuck” mode. It’s a bit like you’re on shuffle / repeat... and what you’re really looking for, is play. Lightheartedness, loving kindness, emotional understanding & mental & emotional equanimity. Check out this commercial...never mind the product... the words and vibe are spot on. 

When you find yourself in the thought-woods, consciously be here now instead ...by focusing on seeing, hearing, breathing from the stomach, and feeling the entire body. You’ll soon see through direct experience how this is a ‘reset’...and then as Jesus spoke about, you replant that mustard seed, that single thought of what you want to create and experience which is aligned with the true nature (“fertile soil”). You’ll wobble a hundred times...but if you return to here now over and over, you start to spot that wobble coming from farther & farther...as in more subtle sensitivity in feeling...away. 

An analogy for that is Grand Central Station (you) and trains leaving all day long (thoughts) and it sure seems like you’re on those trains...but here now is always here now. Grand Central Station (you) has never experienced a past or future, nor a there. You=here=now. If you focus on thoughts about yourself enough though...you fragment your experience, or, it actually seems like you are in the thought stories... in a “there”, in the “past” or “future’. 

Humor is the natural, un-suppressing response to this “seriousness”, this discord with your true nature.

Quote

If this is the case, then we can basically say that all emotions and expressions are ok, and resistance is what creates the notions of "good/bad feelings", which is an illusion?

Resistance is the feeling of the thoughts which you’ve been focusing on. 

Use a pencil & paper... write those resistant thoughts down. Then write what you don’t want...then write the opposite of that, what you do want - and write that on your dreamboard, and focus on it because what you want feels good to you. Exit the “looking for answers in thought” paradigm...step into actuality, focus, creator creating creation. Order some handkerchiefs, cause there will be emotional releases, and it might be scary at first, but remember - Grand Central Station... here now...not “in” a thought story.  You will have a blast with reality and you will be saying it is all very worthwhile, as you will be experiencing the life you dream of manifesting and simultaneously uncovering the true nature which is an ineffable delight beyond possibilities. 

Quote

I feel like I'm getting sense of some truth I've been longing to resolve. I've believed for a long time that experience in itself is way better than no experience, even if the experience is frustration or anger or some other not so comfortable feeling

Right on. That belief was sofa king lame. Let’s not have a parade in discord’s name, let’s inspect, understand, and consciously create emotion. 

Quote

Isn't this sort of an attachment to an outcome? Because I desire a certain vision, but I might then resist anything else that isn't aligned with this dream life.

Feeling is never in a “future”. That’s just a belief / thought attachment. Around twenty minute of meditation is all it takes for that thought activity to unwind, so you can again, plant the seed you want. 

[fopylo]

On 3/13/2021 at 10:48 PM, Loving Radiance said:

Try out meditation with labeling things in your perception as they arise. "Thought", "sound", "temperature", "subtle pressure"...

I know I have been quite late with a response..? @Loving Radiance
Anyways, I don't quite understand how is this supposed to help. Like how do you do it and the idea behind it.

 

On 3/13/2021 at 10:48 PM, Loving Radiance said:

The ground for all experience is that paradise

I mean, I really like this idea. In some sense it feels true. But could you explain a little more? And like how to do you get into this "paradise"

Edited March 18, 2021 by fopylo
forgot to tag

[fopylo]

@Nahm

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

Mindfully reinterpret anxiety, nervousness, etc - as excitement

I didn't quite understand this.

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

The thoughts you’re focused on feel terrible because of how far they are from ‘who’ you really are

I mean, sometimes the reason I don't engage in getting angry, sad, frustrated is because I am kind of judging myself as a more "conscious/high level being" and I believe that at this level I should be able not to be easily moved by those triggers. But I believe it's also because of the social conditioning from the environment and family. So it's not exactly that I'm resisting the negative feelings of anger, sadness and frustration, but rather resisting the image of myself being pulled down and controlled by those emotions and be like "oh, so your ego is controlling you".

I listened to the commercial, quite nice

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

If you focus on thoughts about yourself enough though...you fragment your experience, or, it actually seems like you are in the thought stories... in a “there”, in the “past” or “future’. 

Humor is the natural, un-suppressing response to this “seriousness”, this discord with your true nature.

How is it fragmenting my experience? And what is it like to have a whole experience?

I didn't also quite understand what you were trying to say about humor. Why should I practice humor. There is humor of laughing at other things out of insecurity, but never heard of a higher reason to laugh (from the surprisingly beauty of life which is shocking?)

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

Then write what you don’t want...then write the opposite of that, what you do want - and write that on your dreamboard, and focus on it because what you want feels good to you. Exit the “looking for answers in thought” paradigm...step into actuality, focus, creator creating creation. Order some handkerchiefs, cause there will be emotional releases, and it might be scary at first, but remember - Grand Central Station... here now...not “in” a thought story.  You will have a blast with reality and you will be saying it is all very worthwhile, as you will be experiencing the life you dream of manifesting and simultaneously uncovering the true nature which is an ineffable delight beyond possibilities. 

By writing down what I do want, do you mean material possessions? Honestly what's in my mind now is to just be free, do the things I always wanted to do but felt resistance, even overcoming the resistance to do this task you said lol.
What did you mean by not "looking for answers in thought"? Don't I need to think about what I want and vision for the future?
I feel like I need you to explain again this blast with reality, and making sense of creating a vision without thinking (?) ?

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

Let’s not have a parade in discord’s name, let’s inspect, understand, and consciously create emotion. 

Isn't this kind of like suppression and self monitoring?

 

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

Feeling is never in a “future”. That’s just a belief / thought attachment. Around twenty minute of meditation is all it takes for that thought activity to unwind, so you can again, plant the seed you want. 

So then why would I want to create a dream board or vision board? It's not like as if it will come into existence in the exact second I'm creating this board.

[Nahm]

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

@Nahm

I didn't quite understand this.

Slow down and feel for a better feeling thought. Takes practice. Use the emotional scale. 

Quote

I mean, sometimes the reason I don't engage in getting angry, sad, frustrated is because I am kind of judging myself as a more "conscious/high level being" and I believe that at this level I should be able not to be easily moved by those triggers.

Wether you “engage” in emotion or not you are experiencing emotion. What’s in question is are you suppressing, expressing, and understanding. 

Quote

But I believe it's also because of the social conditioning from the environment and family.

Yes it is. Until it is realized you’re creating the emotions you’re experiencing, which those around you in your childhood and upbringing probably were not aware of. 

Quote

So it's not exactly that I'm resisting the negative feelings of anger, sadness and frustration, but rather resisting the image of myself being pulled down and controlled by those emotions and be like "oh, so your ego is controlling you".

“Negative feelings” is judging how you feel. Read & use the emotional scale to understand how to raise your vibration. 

Wouldn’t want to miss out on the sensational guidance of infinite intelligence in your life, by labelling it “negative feelings”. 

Quote

I listened to the commercial, quite nice

How is it fragmenting my experience?

YouTube it and listen to some videos...but generally speaking, it’s thinking about yourself and missing you are the awareness prior to the thoughts, and the thoughts are not about you. 

Examples.....“a more "conscious/high level being" and I believe that at this level”...”the image of myself”... "your ego is controlling you"...

Quote

And what is it like to have a whole experience?

In this regard it’s the same... just without thoughts about oneself, a past, a future, or separation. Another way to say that is 99% less thought activity, and no ownership of the thoughts or mind. Aka being. 

Quote

I didn't also quite understand what you were trying to say about humor. Why should I practice humor. There is humor of laughing at other things out of insecurity, but never heard of a higher reason to laugh (from the surprisingly beauty of life which is shocking?)

It’s an alternative to fragmentation. When you notice thoughts about yourself, you can laugh recognizing you are yourself...aware of the thoughts. Maybe you actually prefer seriousness, up to you & feeling really, but try to be serious & sincere at the same time, and seriousness loses ground quickly. Ultimately, all there is is this cosmic joke, and to laugh, love, and celebrate. 

Quote

By writing down what I do want, do you mean material possessions? Honestly what's in my mind now is to just be free, do the things I always wanted to do but felt resistance, even overcoming the resistance to do this task you said lol.

By what you want, what I mean, is what you want. Might be material ‘stuff’, relationship, work, career, life purpose, travel, a new hobby - literally anything you want. 

Quote

What did you mean by not "looking for answers in thought"? Don't I need to think about what I want and vision for the future?

Write what you want on the board.  Take credit for the “thinking” or don’t. Either way it’s just another thought. 

Quote

I feel like I need you to explain again this blast with reality, and making sense of creating a vision without thinking (?) ? Isn't this kind of like suppression and self monitoring?

No. Thought ‘arises’, or ‘appears & disappears’. Whatever comes to mind that you want to do, be, create, have, experience - just write it on the board. The doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on thinking here is more suppressing. Express what you want, on your board. Thinking is not something ‘you’ are ‘doing’, that’s just a thought. Begin to notice “my anxiety” is the same. It’s taking credit for thoughts basically. If you’re the awareness of the thoughts, prior to the thoughts....who is this “other one” (fragmenting) which is taking credit for ‘doing’ the ‘thinking’?

Quote

So then why would I want to create a dream board or vision board? It's not like as if it will come into existence in the exact second I'm creating this board.

Nor would you want it to if you think about it. Play that out for just five minutes. Realities perfect exactly how it is. 

Allow it to be simple. 

Write what you want on the board. 

When the board is getting filled up...if you’re inclined...ask more questions then. 

[Loving Radiance]

18 hours ago, fopylo said:

@Loving Radiance

When you quote me directly I get a notification.

By writing @user there is a list of profiles popping up under the "@". Click on the user you want to mention for them to get a notification that they're mentioned.

18 hours ago, fopylo said:

Anyways, I don't quite understand how is this supposed to help. Like how do you do it and the idea behind it.

You are present and recognize dynamics at play in your perception by feeling what is here. You notice every tiny detail you pick up in your perception and label it. With time you immediately recognize what is there and what you focus on.

It is good to do breath meditation. Everything that draws the attention away from the breath is something in your awareness. Label that which drew the attention away and return to the breath.

• The thought might come up of "this is just arduous and boring". Label the thought and come back to breath.
• The birds might chirp and the mind begins to spin a story of childhood and playing in nature. Label the chirping as sound and come to the breath.
• There might me an itch on your arm. Label the itch as sensation and return to breath. The itch might continue and the mind constructs a story that it needs to be scratched. Label the sensation. Label the thought. Return to the breath.

18 hours ago, fopylo said:

But could you explain a little more? And like how to do you get into this "paradise"

Look beyond thoughts, judgement, interpretation, past and future.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Loving Radiance

[fopylo]

@Nahm (Oh my gosh I refreshed it by mistake so I need to write it from the beginning, ughh)

18 hours ago, Nahm said:

Wether you “engage” in emotion or not you are experiencing emotion. What’s in question is are you suppressing, expressing, and understanding. 

Yeah but it's not like I'm experiencing the original emotion I had. I have this resistance which is very tricky because it gets me to dissociate from my experience.

18 hours ago, Nahm said:

“Negative feelings” is judging how you feel.

I knew I had to rephrase that. I meant like uncomfortable feelings and unease.

18 hours ago, Nahm said:

In this regard it’s the same... just without thoughts about oneself, a past, a future, or separation. Another way to say that is 99% less thought activity, and no ownership of the thoughts or mind. Aka being. 

So lately I've been really up-ing my game in meditation practice. I meditate around 30-60 minutes everyday, do 9 minutes of liberation kriya yoga, ride my bike a lot to focus on body, environment and includes solo traveling. I have recognized a bit of a change but not too big. I feel like my mind is still active and trying to interpret my experience as I'm experiencing.

18 hours ago, Nahm said:

No. Thought ‘arises’, or ‘appears & disappears’. Whatever comes to mind that you want to do, be, create, have, experience - just write it on the board. The doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on thinking here is more suppressing.

But when they arise they come in a form of future, like "I want this to happen sometime in a future point in time". What if I want wealth, great relationships, to travel around the world? Also, if a desire just pops up in my mind, maybe it could be just a quick short term attachment but I might discover later that I don't even want it.. And why should I not think about it? Don't I need to get clear on what I want?

18 hours ago, Nahm said:

Nor would you want it to if you think about it. Play that out for just five minutes. Realities perfect exactly how it is.

Why would I not want? You'll need to explain to me how it is perfect ?