Only love exists? What about pain/evil/hate

[Sahi96]

Hello all, 

I’m  trying to understand what is meant when it is argued that only love exists. How would you explain to a depressed person who has considered their lives mostly miserable (child abuse, sexual violence, lifelong chronic pain etc) that their experiences of life are false and that only love and good exist? I’m curious because Leo said: 

“There are no bad deeds, no evil. Only Good and Love exists. Nothing else.” In another thread. 

I’m wondering because maybe for an enlightened person everything seems peaceful and great but aren’t the experiences of the depressed and downtrodden also equally valid? What am I missing here. When a conscious human being commits an act of evil (let’s say child abuse when they know in their heart it is wrong) aren’t such wilful acts also part of the essence of infinite consciousness? 
 

i am looking for a compassionate way to understand this 

[justfortoday]

Very simple. You are comparing events in your direct experience (which is a dream/hallucination, by the way), to the moral compass you were raised with. It's a concept matrix defining itself against your direct experience.

I am very sorry if your consciousness experienced these events, but just understand that you can let go of them and pretend they never even existed, because ultimately reality is a dream happening right here, right now. All bad things in your life were imaginary. 

There is only love because love is the substance that keeps consciousness together and projects the reality in which you abide.

[BipolarGrowth]

There is no evil from an absolute perspective. This does not mean evil does not exist. Evil exists as a relative interpretation of reality created by humans or other survival-focused organisms to further the survival agenda. Every mainstream spiritual master has been ego driven. A fully awakened being would not feel the need to teach, preach of Love or God, etc. Jesus and the Buddha are not the highest. The ones you’ve never even heard of are, but it ultimately does the relative world a lot of good that these mainstream partially awakened people did what they did. 

[Dark_White]

@Sahi96 from my understanding model, yes the depression, sadness and hopelessness all exists only because of love. Cause if reality don't accepted it, it can't be there. 

Existential Love means completely accepting the thing merely for itself, which is this love and reality never deines a person who is going through depression, it completely allow itself to be itself. This is what universal love means.

And also in the relative level it is correct too, the depressed person only feel depressed because of his love for his identity. Depression = love!

Edited March 7, 2021 by Dark_White

[Leo Gura]

It's very simple, if you have zero biases, everything becomes Love.

Contemplate why torture is "evil" or "bad". Notice that it is only "bad" if you have a bias against it. If you had no bias, torture would stop being bad.

The ego's biases distort reality so that reality can be manipulated to allow you to survive as that ego.

For a human, eating shit is bad. For a fly, eating shit is good. The fly has a bias for eating shit because that helps it survive. The opposite for humans.

So everything you call bad or evil is just self-bias. And all self-bias is an illusion because the self is an illusion.

[freejoy]

A tiger might play with his pray. Smelling the delicious rabbit, then eat him slowly. : )

Another way to look at it, is out of love the whole universe was created. It could not even exist at all unless you have up and down.

"When good happens good, when bad happens good"

"In all things give thanks"

We deside together what is good and bad. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by freejoy

[Gesundheit]

It's the most obvious thing in the world that everything is not love, but some people twist narratives and pretend otherwise.

[Tim R]

@Sahi96 Just for the sake of understanding, let's differentiate between "love" and "Love". 

"love" is the emotion that we feel towards something or someone. Let's take a look at this "love", what precisely do we mean when we say "I love you" ?

Isn't saying "I love you" basically the same as saying "I accept and embrace you exactly as you are" ? 

"Love" is the same. It's like saying "I accept and embrace you exactly as you are.", only in this case, it's existence saying to itself "I accept and embrace you exactly as you are." (this is a metaphor of course).

Existence is 100% selfless(ness). There is no individual self within existence, which could reject anything else within existence. Love isn't something that existence "does" it's something that existence is. Existence is pure, selfless acceptance of what is, what ever it might be. 

Love is therefore not the opposite of suffering or evil, Love has no opposite. It can't have an opposite because that would mean that there's something "outside" of the acceptance of what is, but whatever is, is, and therefore "accepts itself" as existing. The "act" of existing is the same as the act of "accepting". You understand? 

But we as human being have egos. And egos have a survival agenda, which means, that there are certain thing which serve this agenda and certain other things which don't serve this agenda. Which means that we'll "love" the things that serve us and reject the things that don't. 

It's our selfishness that prevents us from seeing Love. 

[Gesundheit]

31 minutes ago, Tim R said:

@Sahi96 Just for the sake of understanding, let's differentiate between "love" and "Love". 

"love" is the emotion that we feel towards something or someone. Let's take a look at this "love", what precisely do we mean when we say "I love you" ?

Isn't saying "I love you" basically the same as saying "I accept and embrace you exactly as you are" ? 

"Love" is the same. It's like saying "I accept and embrace you exactly as you are.", only in this case, it's existence saying to itself "I accept and embrace you exactly as you are." (this is a metaphor of course).

Existence is 100% selfless(ness). There is no individual self within existence, which could reject anything else within existence. Love isn't something that existence "does" it's something that existence is. Existence is pure, selfless acceptance of what is, what ever it might be. 

Love is therefore not the opposite of suffering or evil, Love has no opposite. It can't have an opposite because that would mean that there's something "outside" of the acceptance of what is, but whatever is, is, and therefore "accepts itself" as existing. The "act" of existing is the same as the act of "accepting". You understand? 

But we as human being have egos. And egos have a survival agenda, which means, that there are certain thing which serve this agenda and certain other things which don't serve this agenda. Which means that we'll "love" the things that serve us and reject the things that don't. 

It's our selfishness that prevents us from seeing Love. 

Cool explanation. Now redo it without the external God you suggested there.

Otherwise, you're unknowingly conflating the absolute with the relative.

[Tim R]

@Gesundheit Of course you are existence, there's nothing but absolute Love and you are that. No external God, no selflessness apart from you, only Maya suggesting that there's something outside you 

Or how do you mean it? Any specific sentence in my explanation that's bothering you?

[Heaven]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's very simple, if you have zero biases, everything becomes Love.

Contemplate why torture is "evil" or "bad". Notice that it is only "bad" if you have a bias against it. If you had no bias, torture would stop being bad.

The ego's biases distort reality so that reality can be manipulated to allow you to survive as that ego.

For a human, eating shit is bad. For a fly, eating shit is good. The fly has a bias for eating shit because that helps it survive. The opposite for humans.

So everything you call bad or evil is just self-bias. And all self-bias is an illusion because the self is an illusion.

Wow. It’s simpler than I thought?

Thank you

[Gesundheit]

@Tim R That doesn't seem to address my point.

You said existence is selfless, but you also said that existence accepts itself. It sounds contradictory. Because acceptance is something that only a self can do. Without a self, you could neither accept nor reject, unless I am mistaken.

[Someone here]

Love is a human emotion. It's opposite is hate. 

It's far from being everything. That's a silly way of looking at the world. And completely unobjective. 

[Someone here]

@NondualesStudium

2 minutes ago, NondualesStudium said:

Right, love is a human emotion. But that's not the Love that's meant (it's un-mean-able). However, it's the only meaning of love most of us know from (labelled) direct experience. Hence all the confusion and countless threads.

The love that's meant is everything supposedly.. Then call it everything.. Why call it love? Lol. 

Anyways this is just a word game after all lol

 

[mandyjw]

12 hours ago, Sahi96 said:

Hello all, 

I’m  trying to understand what is meant when it is argued that only love exists. How would you explain to a depressed person who has considered their lives mostly miserable (child abuse, sexual violence, lifelong chronic pain etc) that their experiences of life are false and that only love and good exist? I’m curious because Leo said: 

“There are no bad deeds, no evil. Only Good and Love exists. Nothing else.” In another thread. 

That would be a hard sell. An easier sell would be, "what problem do you have this very moment? What is your direct experience right now, outside of any thoughts that kill the aliveness of the present by gathering the moment up in a filter of past and future and claiming to know what it is and what it isn't?" 

 

12 hours ago, Sahi96 said:

I’m wondering because maybe for an enlightened person everything seems peaceful and great but aren’t the experiences of the depressed and downtrodden also equally valid?

The Peace we're talking about isn't a condition. Peace with a lower case p is a condition. Peace is the Awareness that never changes, the background of Peace in the midst of chaos. No condition is valid, and yet all are valid, on the background of awareness. "This too shall pass." What you really as is what does not pass, you are what is there before any beginning can be said to have begun, or any end can be said to have occurred. 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by mandyjw

[Tim R]

51 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

You said existence is selfless, but you also said that existence accepts itself. It sounds contradictory. Because acceptance is something that only a self can do. Without a self, you could neither accept nor reject, unless I am mistaken.

@Gesundheit Acceptance is not something that existence does. Existence is unconditional acceptance because it is selfless(ness), and selflessness is unconditional, absolute Acceptance. No boundaries, no separation aka rejection, it's in-finite. That's what infinity is, it literally is 100% selfless Acceptance/ Love and there is nothing that is being loved and nobody who does the loving/accepting, because everything is infinite Love.

It's Acceptance, not acceptance. There is literally nothing but acceptance, forget the self. 

Ask yourself, what is there beyond the self? What is there without boundaries? imagine there were no boundaries in the universe, what do you get then? 

You get ultimate, absolute non-rejection aka Acceptance aka Love aka Infinity. Nothing left outside, nothing rejected, everything included and accepted, without any self!! 

 

Goddammit!! f*ck words haha  

Edited March 7, 2021 by Tim R

[allislove]

18 hours ago, Sahi96 said:

How would you explain to a depressed person who has considered their lives mostly miserable (child abuse, sexual violence, lifelong chronic pain etc) that their experiences of life are false and that only love and good exist?

Emotional scale by Abraham Hicks may be handy here.

18 hours ago, Sahi96 said:

I’m wondering because maybe for an enlightened person everything seems peaceful and great but aren’t the experiences of the depressed and downtrodden also equally valid?

Notice that "enlightened person" is just a thought, enlightenment is the end of a separate person.

18 hours ago, Sahi96 said:

When a conscious human being commits an act of evil (let’s say child abuse when they know in their heart it is wrong) aren’t such wilful acts also part of the essence of infinite consciousness? 

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." – Jesus

18 hours ago, Sahi96 said:

I am looking for a compassionate way to understand this 

The path to self realization is very simple, but it's hard to understand by twisted minds:

"We can be 'right' and we can 'know' things or we can be happy." – @Koyaanisqatsi

[docs20]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's very simple, if you have zero biases, everything becomes Love.

Contemplate why torture is "evil" or "bad". Notice that it is only "bad" if you have a bias against it. If you had no bias, torture would stop being bad.

The ego's biases distort reality so that reality can be manipulated to allow you to survive as that ego.

For a human, eating shit is bad. For a fly, eating shit is good. The fly has a bias for eating shit because that helps it survive. The opposite for humans.

So everything you call bad or evil is just self-bias. And all self-bias is an illusion because the self is an illusion.

The thing that still baffles me is: if you can imagine everything, why imagining a being that has the self-bias of bad or evil who will of course suffer like we do?

[Tim R]

2 minutes ago, docs20 said:

why imagining a being that has the self-bias of bad or evil who will of course suffer like we do?

Because Yes to everything! 

@docs20 UNO reverse card: why not?

[Gesundheit]

@Tim R You're repeating yourself, buddy.

It seems you're attached to labels that cause you miss my point.

Acceptance is a dualistic notion, just like love. I accept you = I love you. There's a me and a you in the equation.

You can say I accept myself = I love myself, but that's rather the smaller self, not the Self. Because you can also say I reject myself = I hate myself. See, love and hate, acceptance and rejection occur at the dualistic/relative/personal level.

The Self does not love or hate, nor does it accept or reject. It simply does not discriminate. All discrimination occurs on the level of the smaller selves, which is where all this confusion is occurring.

Please re-read a hundred times before repeating the same lecture.