Teal swan - what a woman needs from a man in a relationship

[Samuel Garcia]

@soos_mite_ah Yes I agree with a lot with what you say. Regarding integration, maybe for most people this occurs but not necessary. When you reach completeness, stillness and surrender occurs. Integration may occur, or giving up of many separate self activities. When you are peaceful and silence, at that point you don't need to worry so much about dealing with the shadow. But you could be right in saying that through certain stages (not necessarily SD) before surrender occurs

Of course you do what you feel will make you happy as I said. Not everyone will even speculate about enlightenment.

Some men place a women's looks as most important. The more conscious men would objectify less, and would asses other qualities are more important but may still be emotionally pulled by how a women looks. Try screen out for more conscious men as they are more aligned with what you are looking for of course. There are a wide variety of men out there, they are not all the same.

[AdamR95]

16 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@AdamR95

   That's true, if you self reflect in isolation. However, when you debate and criticize another person, it always further solidifies the ideas each side chooses to defend, because the point of criticism and debating isn't to arrive at the ultimate truth, it's to protect what each side thinks is their truth, and their good, through persuasion and knocking down the other side's truth as falsehood, while claiming your own partial truth as The Good Truth, see?

   I'll go as far as saying that self criticising and debating yourself is also a waste of time as well, as that tends to fragment yourself more.

You can go as far as saying breathing is waste of time. You can say that about anything.

Criticising and debating is part of being human and its part of the growing process. Grow itself leads nowhere, its about the process.

You actually can self reflect while you are in debate and the goal can be to get closer to the truth. Why you assume every debate leads to polarizing ones perspective? 

 

 

[soos_mite_ah]

5 minutes ago, Samuel Garcia said:

@soos_mite_ah Yes I agree with a lot with what you say. Regarding integration, maybe for most people this occurs but not necessary. When you reach completeness, stillness and surrender occurs. Integration may occur, or giving up of many separate self activities. When you are peaceful and silence, at that point you don't need to worry so much about dealing with the shadow. But you could be right in saying that through certain stages (not necessarily SD) before surrender occurs

There is a difference between state of consciousness and stage. I can pop a tab of LSD and experience a turquoise, nondual state, but that doesn't mean I'm at stage turquoise. You can have transcendental experiences, enlightenment experiences, or find a great deal of peace through meditation at any stage. But it takes a lot of work, a lot of integration, a lot of digging through shadows to get to a higher stage. 

[Danioover9000]

@AdamR95

2 hours ago, AdamR95 said:

You can go as far as saying breathing is waste of time. You can say that about anything.

Criticising and debating is part of being human and its part of the growing process. Grow itself leads nowhere, its about the process.

You actually can self reflect while you are in debate and the goal can be to get closer to the truth. Why you assume every debate leads to polarizing ones perspective? 

 

 

   Because we have a rich human history of 'debating' and 'criticizing' for 20,000, and still, to this Era, people  haven't made much progress in any field through arguing! Look at the modern day examples of science vs religion, political debates, religious debates, philosophical debates on the nature of reality, have we any progress through debating? Yes we have, if you consider keeping mind viruses alive to spread to other minds masquerading as truth, fooling yourself into thinking that is real truth, then you are right to say we have made progress, progress in bullshitting ourselves and others more by feeding stories to each Ego! This is why to me debating is such foolish distraction, for those seeking ultimate truth. Not for those trying to survive the concepts in their minds, along with asking to explain their rationale.

   Keep in mind, even Buddhists and Advaita/ Neo Advaita practitioners debate on what enlightenment is.

[Gesundheit]

@Emerald I see 0% absorption and 100% rejection of whatever I say. At this point, it's literally pointless to keep talking.

Have a good day/night.

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, AdamR95 said:

Criticising and debating is part of being human and its part of the growing process. 

This assumes there is at least a low level of openness, curiosity and desire for growth. This is not always the case in debates. There are many different debate dynamics and not all are conducive to growth. Some dynamics are counter-productive to growth and some are regressive.  

And some debaters can be super sneaky and come across as if they are above debate / argument. That they are open-minded, want to have a “discussion” and intend to help others, yet they have an underlying orientation of defending their views and projecting onto others. This orientation infuriates people that want to debate/argue ideas directly since they see the other person as passive aggressive. 

For some people, intense debate is like an intellectual contact sport. Like entering an mma octagon. If two deabaters are both in it for the sport, there can be mutual respect. Yet when they meet someone who won’t debate bare knuckles, they lose respect. . . . I knew a brilliant scientist at a prestigious University and this guy debated with knives. If you engaged with him, you better be prepared for a brawl or you will get it bad. One time, I saw hm engage with a pit bull that was at his level. It was like watching two talented boxers trying to knock each other out. They were both totally into the match and had mutual respect of each other. It was fascinating to watch. 

[Preety_India]

@Forestluv@Forestluv criticizing and debating is productive only as long as two people want to learn something from each other otherwise it's an ego fest. 

 

@Origins . Sorry got tagged again. 

 

[AdamR95]

3 hours ago, Forestluv said:

This assumes there is at least a low level of openness, curiosity and desire for growth. This is not always the case in debates. There are many different debate dynamics and not all are conducive to growth. Some dynamics are counter-productive to growth and some are regressive

@Forestluv @Danioover9000

the point is - debating isnt inherently incompatible with grow

you both have some good points though

Edited March 13, 2021 by AdamR95

[Gesundheit]

2 hours ago, AdamR95 said:

@Forestluv @Danioover9000

the point is - debating isnt inherently incompatible with grow

Yep. Debating is actually a very good technique for horizontal growth, i.e. identity survival. But for vertical/transcendental growth, i.e. enlightenment, it is a limitation, unless applied with awareness.

[Hulia]

Why, this thread reminded me on an episode from my childhood, which I remember very vividly. I wasn´t even in the school age: 5 - max. 6 years old probably. I was on children's birthday party. At the end of the party one of the girls wanted to take her present with her, as she was the one who brought it. The mum of the birthday girl explained that it´s no go.

But you know what? - the mum exclaimed, - Anna will make for all of you presents. Right Anna? Are you a nice girl? Sit down and draw pictures for all your guests.

Anna was tired after party as we all were, and didn´t want to draw the pictures for all her guests. But her mum forced her after all. Then the mum distributed the pictures (Anna was too exhausted at this point) and I told, I dnd´t want it.

- Why

- I don´t like it

- It doesn´t matter, if you like it or not, it´s a present and you have to take it

I was a terrible person in this period of my life. No power in the world could force me to do anything, if I didn´t want it, not even my mum. THe children stood around us, during Anna´s mum pushed frantically the shitty sheet of paper to me, I pushed back. Then the parents came to pick us up. My parents got a precious picture and did what all the other parents probably did - threw it into the first dustbin.

I don´t know why I was so stubborn. They never invited me again.   

I want to think that I wanted revenge for Anna, who was forced to do the things she didn´t want to do. But maybe it was just an offence for an unfair trade. Who knows. 

[integral]

On 3/12/2021 at 10:54 AM, Gesundheit said:

Truth, on the other hand, promotes healing on the long term

It might promote horizontal growth if that person is close enough to your level vertically to understand your truth. 

Its just experienced as an attack for all other vertical levels especially seeing as its coming with a intentional emotional manipulation.

A good teacher tailors the teaching to the students needs and definitely doesn't "purposefully try to trigger people's emotions which in turn will bring out their shadows and attachments." -Gesundheit 

On 3/12/2021 at 10:54 AM, Gesundheit said:

In my top 10 values, truth and practicality are the top 2, with truth in the lead. So, if when I am faced with a situation where I have to choose between truth or practicality, I will choose truth, because I believe that it's the way to go

Whats the goal? We established its not helping people, so why is "truth" the way to go.

 

On 3/12/2021 at 10:54 AM, Gesundheit said:

While practicality might seem tempting to a lot of people, it only serves as a crutch and a sedative for the actual problem.

What problem are you "solving" and why engage solving it?

Edited March 14, 2021 by integral

[zeroISinfinity]

@Hulia Hey. 

We are talking about blonde with blue eyes. 

Ok as you saw familiarity brings that sense of security etc blah blah blah. 

For me it's complete oposite familiarity means all the negative stuff. 

I was at the wedding of one of my female relatives and I was shocked how much her fresh husband looked and had manners talked exactly as her father. 

I said to myself does any of 200 guests notice this? 

I mean I can't subconciously find black haired lady that looks like me as safe long term partner when I wanted to stab my own mother qith kitchen knife more then 100 times during my life at "home". 

Edited March 14, 2021 by zeroISinfinity

[zeroISinfinity]

Hahaha I know sounds scary. So how exactly guy that had to be adult all his life, be warrior and had armor can provide "masculine containment" and all willy nilly stuff? 

He can love ofcourse  but actually and to show it with his actions not with sleezy sweet talk or "listening and understanding". 

?

Edited March 14, 2021 by zeroISinfinity

[Gesundheit]

@integral Look, all of what I said was to prevent a negative narrative placed upon me. I can play with narratives and make up whatever stories I want to suit my agendas and preserve/survive my identity. The bottom-line is that I don't want to feel like a bad person for doing what I'm doing. As long as I don't want to continue that behavior, I am fine, at least in my opinion. You were right when you called it mental gymnastics, because mental gymnastics is the only game in town. I've never really thought about my behavior until it was questioned here. But what's the point of telling me that I'm wrong when I already know that? It's only useful if I am ignorant of my behavior. But once I am aware of it and seeking resolution, I will not allow a negative narrative to be attached to me, because I love myself. People trying to spin negative narratives around my behavior are not entirely wrong, just not loving enough of me, but loving enough of themselves. I am loving enough of myself. Regardless, there is a middle ground. I think it is recognized when people stop trying to control me and just accept me for who I am and not take my behavior personally, because I stated that it's all about me not them. Really, whatever I say or do is only a reflection of myself.

I realized that last night during a 3 hours session of walking meditation. It's an example and a proof of how powerful mindful/conscious debating can be.

[Hulia]

11 hours ago, zeroISinfinity said:

@Hulia Hey. 

We are talking about blonde with blue eyes. 

Ok as you saw familiarity brings that sense of security etc blah blah blah. 

For me it's complete oposite familiarity means all the negative stuff. 

I was at the wedding of one of my female relatives and I was shocked how much her fresh husband looked and had manners talked exactly as her father. 

I said to myself does any of 200 guests notice this? 

I mean I can't subconciously find black haired lady that looks like me as safe long term partner when I wanted to stab my own mother qith kitchen knife more then 100 times during my life at "home". 

Anna´s mum was a blonde with blue eyes, neat and pretty, but scary. I call this type of women Malvina. But internationally you can really call it swan - a white swan in a black environment   

Your story is not scary, May be sad? C`est la vie.

I don´t look for somebody who looks like my father, but like ME. 

Though you know, I had once a toxic relationship (like the other girls here  ), and I was shocked, when my mother arrived, she gets out of the bus and I look at her .. and I see him.  Her forehead with a bunch of raven-black hair on it looked exactly like his. That was scary - a wiff of paranoya.

I thought about it later during the following years. There were a lot of similarities really. The main one: he couldn´t bear,  when somebody was lying to him, it drove him crazy. You might think, an honest decent person in our false world. But he himself was a Lier (with a capital "L"). And it´s the main feature of my mum too. How she terrorized me my whole childhood for every small lie. She robbed me of that practical ability in life to lie easily when necessary for no reason.

Yes, I moved out to my grandma and aunt, who were funny loose liers without any rules and principles to follow. But there was some deep honesty in it. They even offered their help in correcting the mistakes of my straightforward upbringing  

Edited March 14, 2021 by Hulia

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, Hulia said:

Anna´s mum was a blonde with blue eyes, neat and pretty, but scary. I call this type of women Malvina. But internationally you can really call it swan - a white swan in a black environment   

My parents were considering naming me Melvina before they decided to name me Emerald... I’m totally glad they didn’t.

[zeroISinfinity]

11 hours ago, Hulia said:

Anna´s mum was a blonde with blue eyes, neat and pretty, but scary. I call this type of women Malvina. But internationally you can really call it swan - a white swan in a black environment   

Interesting. 

11 hours ago, Hulia said:

Your story is not scary, May be sad? C`est la vie.

Whatever, who gives a ef. Gained wisdom swimmed out of all of it and eventually won. 

11 hours ago, Hulia said:

I don´t look for somebody who looks like my father, but like ME. 

Ok hope he will enjoy waxing his legs. 

11 hours ago, Hulia said:

Though you know, I had once a toxic relationship (like the other girls here  ), and I was shocked, when my mother arrived, she gets out of the bus and I look at her .. and I see him.  Her forehead with a bunch of raven-black hair on it looked exactly like his. That was scary - a wiff of paranoya.

What scared you is that you might exactly becomw like your partner in toxic relationship? 

11 hours ago, Hulia said:

I thought about it later during the following years. There were a lot of similarities really. The main one: he couldn´t bear,  when somebody was lying to him, it drove him crazy. You might think, an honest decent person in our false world. But he himself was a Lier (with a capital "L"). And it´s the main feature of my mum too. How she terrorized me my whole childhood for every small lie. She robbed me of that practical ability in life to lie easily when necessary for no reason.

Well it's great to talk with you.Honest guy on the other side too. 

11 hours ago, Hulia said:

Yes, I moved out to my grandma and aunt, who were funny loose liers without any rules and principles to follow. But there was some deep honesty in it. They even offered their help in correcting the mistakes of my straightforward upbringing  

Yes grandmas are life saviours if you get yourself with such parents. 

 

[integral]

 

16 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

@integral Look, all of what I said was to prevent a negative narrative placed upon me. I can play with narratives and make up whatever stories I want to suit my agendas and preserve/survive my identity. The bottom-line is that I don't want to feel like a bad person for doing what I'm doing. As long as I don't want to continue that behavior, I am fine, at least in my opinion. You were right when you called it mental gymnastics, because mental gymnastics is the only game in town. I've never really thought about my behavior until it was questioned here. But what's the point of telling me that I'm wrong when I already know that? It's only useful if I am ignorant of my behavior. But once I am aware of it and seeking resolution, I will not allow a negative narrative to be attached to me, because I love myself. People trying to spin negative narratives around my behavior are not entirely wrong, just not loving enough of me, but loving enough of themselves. I am loving enough of myself. Regardless, there is a middle ground. I think it is recognized when people stop trying to control me and just accept me for who I am and not take my behavior personally, because I stated that it's all about me not them. Really, whatever I say or do is only a reflection of myself.

I realized that last night during a 3 hours session of walking meditation. It's an example and a proof of how powerful mindful/conscious debating can be.

Seems to be a solid responds, maybe where done here.  

Like to say you have an ability to expand and string together ideas that's definitely a great talent, but this talent is also your responsibility. We should accept you for who you are, but when a mad man is swinging his intellectual gun around its hard to be casual about it lol.

16 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

I will not allow a negative narrative to be attached to me, because I love myself.

Wouldn't it be easier to community harmoniously from the beginning to prevent the need to later have to defend?

Also aren't there plenty of wise quotes about loving oneself unconditionally? Removing any need to defend? 

If that energy used to defend could be used for something else, how would you conduct your self ideally?   

I feel like your about to unlock a super power lol

Edited March 14, 2021 by integral

[Gesundheit]

@integral Ha!

What you're doing here is not very different from that which you want me to stop doing. You want me to change as much as I want you to do. But the difference is that you don't want to change yourself, so you tell me to change, in order to avoid looking inwards. It's as simple as that. Old-school devilry.

Being direct or indirect about this does not really change anything. You think there's something wrong with me, and I was generous to agree with you. But actually, I don't think there's anything wrong with me, nor with you or anyone else. But obviously, there's a friction here. Agendas are not flowing together effortlessly. Me being who I am is causing distress to others. But see, I recognize that and I am already actively trying to change it by chasing enlightenment. I am looking inwards and taking responsibility. You guys don't recognize that you also are causing me distress by trying to change me to fit into your ideals of how a human should be. We're literally doing the same thing. You're just being indirect about it and trying to appeal to my ego from a different angle.

(Notice how I was able to recognize that before you did, and then tell you about it directly. I doubt you'd ever have beaten me to this insight under any circumstances, because being indirect misses the point, by definition).

(Also, notice that all of this here is just observation. I did not tell you to change nor tried to force my ideals on you. But it's likely that you will perceive my observations as threatening and offensive, because that's the nature of self-preservation, there's no interest in looking inwards or changing oneself. To you, all problems are without, not within, even though your ego may pretend to believe otherwise. Do you know why? It's because of lack of self-love/enlightenment. If you guys actually love yourself, you won't have a problem with change).

Boy, I could go on and on...

(Lol).

[Hulia]

15 hours ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Ok hope he will enjoy waxing his legs. 

:)))))

What scared you is that you might exactly becomw like your partner in toxic relationship? 

You have no idea! HOW toxic this guy was. Beyond everything on this planet. My mother has just a faint trait of this type of toxicity, but by far not to this extent. I was shocked: why her forehead looks exactly the same as his? what both of them can have in common? And he was not my partner, we were related.  

Besides I can never be toxic because I am already empathic. I would never let somebody feel bad, because I feel the same. 

Yes grandmas are life saviours if you get yourself with such parents. 

My mother also tried to escape her mother, which is my grandma