Teal swan - what a woman needs from a man in a relationship

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Emerald Do you consider yourself enlightened after your ayahuasca trip?

I would say no. But enlightenment is no longer a goal to me as it lost a lot of its meaning to me after the ayahuasca ceremony. 

But I have experienced both ego death and ego transcendence, and I'm familiar with the perspective. And in my day to day life, there are many times during the day that I become present to what I've heard referred to as the "I am" state. That is, if memory serves correctly about what that term refers to.

Basically, I've gotten some distance from the thought-story that ego spins. And in this distance, I am often confronted by the subtle awareness of being in the illusion.

That said, I still have an ego. And in certain situations I can go completely into attachment to the ego-mind. I just have a lot more distance from that thought story now.

But one thing is for sure. I do (from direct experience) have an abiding awareness of what the ego is... and it definitely isn't the entirety of human psychology.

Also, in a state of ego transcendence, you still have all your human functionings (including your psychology). And this is something I've directly experienced as well.

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

@Gesundheit 

I'm under the impression that you are projecting a lot of things onto @Emerald. I'm not sure how to address it but you are particularly rude to female members with a strong need for intellectual superiority over them. And it ends up often into spicy exchanges.

I'm not saying this to vilify you, but I do believe that investigating this through shadow work would be highly beneficial.

Perhaps some insecurities and fears of inferiority and feeling the need to prove himself by competing with women. 

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Perhaps some insecurities and fears of inferiority and feeling the need to prove himself by competing with women. 

Totally agree. And many on the forum with the same attitude. 

 

[StarStruck]

5 hours ago, Aquarius said:

Beautiful concepts. Are any dads perfect? I think my dad is close to perfect, but I wish he contacted me more often. He tries to make me contact him.

Or so might be my perception. I don't need to contact him. If he needs me help he has my number. He's playing mind games though to see how much I care about him. 

Like some men I dated before. 

It is just how our brains work.  

[AdamR95]

11 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

So I will proceed with perfecting my wings and enjoying my freedom and flying into the highest heavens. And you stay where you are.

@Gesundheit

you think you can be perfecting yourself?  lol

You are chasing your tail, haha.

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by AdamR95

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Perhaps some insecurities and fears of inferiority and feeling the need to prove himself by competing with women. 

And she continues with the projections.

I'm aware of your ayahuasca experience btw, and I distinctively remember Leo telling you to go deeper and you resisting. You didn't go deep enough to make such claims about enlightenment, so I'm not sure what it is that you're doing here. Clearly, whatever you experienced back then is not the end all be all. Not that I have the full scope of enlightenment either, but at least I have gone deeper than your deepest experience, and all of my breakthroughs are sober. There's a lot more for you to learn. If you don't want to learn anymore, that's fine. It's none of my business. But you have no right to take the teacher role when you're not even in school. It is wise for someone with such little experience to humble themselves down and know their place instead of projecting, and preaching with a condescending tone.

This has nothing to do with you as a woman. Rather, it has to do with you as a human with an ego. This misogynist thought that you're projecting onto me never even occurred to me. I don't discriminate between genders, but perhaps you do. I've read somewhere that you have hatred towards men, which you're still struggling with up until this day. I mean, the irony, for God's sake! Just reflect on what you're saying for once.

The inferiority/superiority thing is not it either. The fear/insecurity thing is not it either. And neither of them has anything to do with women. All of that is your projections.

The truth is that I am this way with everyone, including my closest friends, family, and even myself. I try to align myself with the truth to the best of my abilities, but this tendency gets out of hand sometimes and extends out to include others. I have a desire to share the truth and wisdom that I have with everyone. And I know that people won't like it, so I try to keep it to a minimum in real life. Eventually, I come here and pour it all in. And you know the rest. It's a curse, really, and I want to get rid of it. This desire is my biggest delusion.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Emerald]

50 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

And she continues with the projections.

I'm aware of your ayahuasca experience btw, and I distinctively remember Leo telling you to go deeper and you resisting. You didn't go deep enough to make such claims about enlightenment, so I'm not sure what it is that you're doing here. Clearly, whatever you experienced back then is not the end all be all. Not that I have the full scope of enlightenment either, but at least I have gone deeper than your deepest experience, and all of my breakthroughs are sober. There's a lot more for you to learn. If you don't want to learn anymore, that's fine. It's none of my business. But you have no right to take the teacher role when you're not even in school. It is wise for someone with such little experience to humble themselves down and know their place instead of projecting, and preaching with a condescending tone.

This has nothing to do with you as a woman. Rather, it has to do with you as a human with an ego. This misogynist thought that you're projecting onto me never even occurred to me. I don't discriminate between genders, but perhaps you do. I've read somewhere that you have hatred towards men, which you're still struggling with up until this day. I mean, the irony, for God's sake! Just reflect on what you're saying for once.

The inferiority/superiority thing is not it either. The fear/insecurity thing is not it either. And neither of them has anything to do with women. All of that is your projections.

The truth is that I am this way with everyone, including my closest friends, family, and even myself. I try to align myself with the truth to the best of my abilities, but this tendency gets out of hand sometimes and extends out to include others. I have a desire to share the truth and wisdom that I have with everyone. And I know that people won't like it, so I try to keep it to a minimum in real life. Eventually, I come here and pour it all in. And you know the rest. It's a curse, really, and I want to get rid of it. This desire is my biggest delusion.

Enlighten me then. Tell me about your experiences that have gone deeper than my deepest experience. I'd be very excited to hear about that.

But be forewarned, you can't tell me the sky is green without me pushing back on it when I've witnessed myself that it is not. 

Also, I don't know where you heard that I have a hatred towards men. Most of my gender-related issues that I've had to work through have been hatred of women, femininity, and myself as an extension of that. I do sometimes get jealous/frustrated towards men at not having to grapple with these issues to the same degree and/or just simply not understanding nor even really being curious about it. That's my main axe to grind, generally speaking.

But if you really desire to share truth/wisdom with others, then you should anchor yourself in what you've actually experienced. And you should examine why you're trying to get my goat by peppering your messages with tons of condescension. 

[Gesundheit]

41 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

It's about time that you consider the hypothesis that you do have a problem with both projections, double standards, aggressiveness and misogyny.

Only aggressiveness is true. I admit that I have a more aggressive attitude than most people here, and perhaps in life in general. It's just who I am. Life has always been rough with me, so that's probably why. I don't see my aggressiveness as problematic. I don't even perceive aggressiveness as a problem in life anymore. Life is harsh, get used to it.

The rest, I don't acknowledge. I don't project or fall into logical fallacies. I have a pretty strong epistemic ground and I am well aware of my shadow. So, I am 100% confident that those things you mentioned don't apply to me.

41 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

You are doing everything you are reproaching Emerald.

BS.

41 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Let me remind you that Emerald is a successful coach and people praise her argumentation and appreciate your posts.

Yeah, so? That doesn't mean that she's perfect or knows everything. You're putting her on a pedestal because you're biased towards her and against me, that's all. There's no difference between me and her except in your imagination.

41 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Sorry to ask but where are your credentials?

Nice! You don't objectively examine the information. You just look at the source and follow blindly. Just because someone has a YouTube channel does not automatically make what they do perfect or everything they say correct. It's a common logical fallacy:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

41 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

You have repeatedly encountered issues and it's time to introspect on why.

If I said that to you, you'd probably tell me that I'm gaslighting you with unsolicited advice, and then you would run crying to the mods. I know this pattern, you've done it before. And I couldn't care less about your opinion. Maybe follow your own advice and simply mind your own business. Not that I have a problem with taking unsolicited advice. I try to integrate everything. Any advice is always valuable. I'm just showing you your inconsistencies.

41 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Do you remember the dick pick episode? You've been preaching all around that sending unsolicited dick pick was a normal behavior and pestered me just for the fact that I recommended you not to do so.

Yes, I remember vividly. You could not handle a different opinion. Sorry about that. Completely my fault.

41 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Also plenty of women complain about your tone. It's time that you face that there is a problem.

People here are too soft, and I am too rough. Not only women complain about my tone. Every ego complains about it.

41 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

So, you can share your insights but Emerald can't?  She also has the right to share the truth and wisdom that she's got with everyone. So why does it apply to you and not to her?

Consider that the reason why is because you believe you know better.

I said it's a curse that I'm trying to rid myself of. Maybe you didn't see the edited post.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Farnaby]

This is starting to look like a war between two egos. 

To be fair, I didn't notice any misogyny or sexism in @Gesundheit's posts. It could indeed be that some people are projecting this on him because of personal wounds. 

What I do notice though is a need to be right and have the last word (which I have too btw lol), but IMO that has nothing to do with gender. I also think that you have rigid beliefs about how people should be (i.e strong, unaffected emotionally, etc.). Kind of like a shadow around vulnerability. 

I do agree however that a lot of people get triggered/offended very easily nowadays and that it's not only the fault of people who are less agreeable and direct like @Gesundheit. 

Coming back to the topic you two were discussing, I have to admit that I can't know for sure if psychological needs disappear after enlightenment because I've only had glimpses. However, I highly doubt it because many of those needs are the result of how our brains and biology work.

[Emerald]

29 minutes ago, Farnaby said:

This is starting to look like a war between two egos. 

To be fair, I didn't notice any misogyny or sexism in @Gesundheit's posts. It could indeed be that some people are projecting this on him because of personal wounds. 

What I do notice though is a need to be right and have the last word (which I have too btw lol), but IMO that has nothing to do with gender. I also think that you have rigid beliefs about how people should be (i.e strong, unaffected emotionally, etc.). Kind of like a shadow around vulnerability. 

I do agree however that a lot of people get triggered/offended very easily nowadays and that it's not only the fault of people who are less agreeable and direct like @Gesundheit. 

Coming back to the topic you two were discussing, I have to admit that I can't know for sure if psychological needs disappear after enlightenment because I've only had glimpses. However, I highly doubt it because many of those needs are the result of how our brains and biology work.

I understand that. I quite enjoy sparring.

With the misogyny and sexism part, though it may not be stated explicitly in these posts, I do see that that's part of what's at the root of his defensive behavior. Misogyny is a way to cope with fears and insecurities relative to women and femininity. And generally, the more fearful a man is of women, the more misogynistic, condescending, and reductive he will be.  And the "disagreeability" is just a way to rationalize the defensiveness and insecurity. 

It's an experience that women have all the time and it has a certain flavor to it that's not easily mistakable. 

And he has expressed other things in the past that give hints of having a generally unfavorable, defensive, or reductive outlook towards women. These are very accurate litmus tests of whether or not someone has a chip on their shoulder relative to women. 

This may not be something you notice because you're a man. But it tends to be more obvious from the female perspective because we're used to that flavor. 

[Hulia]

8 hours ago, zeroISinfinity said:

@Hulia

Screw this 'masculine containment' and similar BS. 

Lets talk about normal stuff. 

You said man and women find their look alikes in physical sense attractive. 

Here Eban Pagan. 

I will give you that. Subconciously it gives sense of security (like siblings, I know sounds scary) for long term relationship. But in long run atleast for me it doesn't give long term sexual desire for her. 

It looks good too when I meet her with my grandma lol. 

I guess long term sense of security is better than long term sexual desire. But it´s a BS too.

Nothing will give you a long term sexual desire in a relationship, no matter whether she looks like you or not.  

But it´s not that important. All pleasures are short , and orgasm the shortest of them  Why persue it so doggedly?

I think, you should look for compatibility - somebody not so easily offended, and may be with a little higher level of consciousness than average. It´s diffucult enough to find such a girl friend and if you add sexual attractiveness, forget it. 

"It looks good too when I meet her with my grandma lol. "

Why? Does she look like you grandma? Here is my Roma great grandma

[RendHeaven]

11 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Technically, it isn't my problem. If someone feels offended without being insulted, then that's on them. I take responsibility for my feelings and expect everyone to do the same.

Just don't be surprised when nobody likes you.

11 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

I'm not here to comfort people or sell them tasty/cozy ideas. I'm here to talk truth. People will react and be offended, and that's par for the course, because truth is not ego-friendly. The ego is a tricky thing to deal with, and it will use all possible justifications and defense mechanisms to preserve itself.

Yes, ego is indeed tricky. When confronted with a perfectly valid alternate perspective, it will dismiss and distract by saying, "technically, it isn't my problem. It's on them."

[Surfingthewave]

@Gesundheit

You say life has been rough with you, how so? 

Someone has been very aggressive towards you in your past, right? So much so you are carrying this anger into your present life. 

I would suggest spending time introspecting and contemplating the root of your anger. Shame is the basis for most anger. Good luck. 

 

[Gesundheit]

4 hours ago, Farnaby said:

It could indeed be that some people are projecting this on him because of personal wounds. 

Thank you. This is actually exactly what I was talking about in my thread here:

 

On 08/03/2021 at 11:46 AM, Gesundheit said:

• Past traumatic experiences, which seem to play out in these discussions, as everyone seems to contribute with their share of insecurities/biases.

 

4 hours ago, Farnaby said:

What I do notice though is a need to be right and have the last word (which I have too btw lol), but IMO that has nothing to do with gender. I also think that you have rigid beliefs about how people should be (i.e strong, unaffected emotionally, etc.). Kind of like a shadow around vulnerability. 

I do agree however that a lot of people get triggered/offended very easily nowadays and that it's not only the fault of people who are less agreeable and direct like @Gesundheit.

I find it quite ironic that I've already clearly stated my truth, but people still feel like they have to assume things about me. You seem impartial, so probably you've missed it. Here it is, if you're interested:

6 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

The truth is that I am this way with everyone, including my closest friends, family, and even myself. I try to align myself with the truth to the best of my abilities, but this tendency gets out of hand sometimes and extends out to include others. I have a desire to share the truth and wisdom that I have with everyone. And I know that people won't like it, so I try to keep it to a minimum in real life. Eventually, I come here and pour it all in. And you know the rest. It's a curse, really, and I want to get rid of it. This desire is my biggest delusion.

This is what all of what I'm doing is about. I wouldn't be replying to you if I found what you're saying to be true, because I almost exclusively get triggered by falsehood. In my most enlightened states, I wouldn't be on the internet arguing with others, and even if I was reading, I wouldn't be replying. In my most enlightened states, I would simply be sitting alone and enjoying the inner stillness (which is one of my points of reference for my claims about enlightenment), but I am not in that state right now, so here I am.

There are a lot of things that people say and I agree with, but I don't find it necessary to state my agreements with others. For the most part, I only state my disagreements. That's why I tend to trigger people a lot. They probably think that I'm implying that there's something wrong with them, when in fact it's just my desire to share wisdom/truth. Perhaps we could call that perfectionism.

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, RendHeaven said:

Just don't be surprised when nobody likes you.

Out of all the things that I anticipated to be projected onto me, low self-esteem comes quite as a shock. I have no problems with people not liking me. I've stated many times that I'm not here to comfort others. I couldn't care less about other people's opinions, especially random people on the internet. If you really want to be liked, that says more about you than it does about me. So maybe work on fixing that.

[Gesundheit]

@Surfingthewave There's no anger here. The "aggressiveness" feels completely normal to me, I wouldn't even call it "aggressiveness". I sincerely can't understand how people assume aggressiveness merely from words. To me, it just doesn't compute. Like, seriously, where's the danger/offence that you perceive in my words? All of it is imaginary. Take a look at that, maybe it's not because of my words, and rather because of the ego that is interpreting them.

[zeroISinfinity]

2 hours ago, Hulia said:

I guess long term sense of security is better than long term sexual desire. But it´s a BS too.

Yeah with time indeed sex becomes more intimate. But will say this as man,if your gf looks so different then you indeed have that manly sense of conquering, atleast for me. This way I also avoid potential clinginess she and I might instinctivly feel if we are look alikes. Which will fill out relationship with more sex and more time before real bonding and intimacy happens.Unfamiliar and unknown subconciosly for both. 

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Nothing will give you a long term sexual desire in a relationship, no matter whether she looks like you or not.  

Well lets be honest. More beautiful girl more sexual desire for her. Long term is still possible not like in the beggining of the relationship but there is still sexual desire. Every relationship develops. If all your needs are satisfied and she is absolutelly ok why would you go and look for another woman. You won't but.... 

 

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But it´s not that important. All pleasures are short , and orgasm the shortest of them  Why persue it so doggedly?

I don't, I don't chase skirt. 

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I think, you should look for compatibility - somebody not so easily offended, and may be with a little higher level of consciousness than average. It´s diffucult enough to find such a girl friend and if you add sexual attractiveness, forget it. 

That's why I say compromises. Here everyone acts like I want it all. Childish stuff. 

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"It looks good too when I meet her with my grandma lol. "

Why? Does she look like you grandma? Here is my Roma great grandma

2 hours ago, Hulia said:

 

It was joke. 

Quote

 

 

[Samuel Garcia]

20 hours ago, Emerald said:

Again, all of this is about honoring both the absolute perspective and the relative perspective.

 

Different teachers say mean different things with ''enlightenment''. Teachers agree that it is knowing one's own true nature whatever that means. Some say that happiness is there. Yous seem to have a similar perspective as Peter Ralston -- enlightenment doesn't change anything including self-survival tendencies but it can help transformation.

That slightly different to what Rupert Spira has said where peace and love is found, having a completeness within oneself but life goes on as one wishes to do so. He admits occasionally he acts unenlightened sometimes but peace is the norm. He famously has said to tell your partners ''I love you, but I do not need (and you cannot give me the happiness I seek)''

Ramana Maharshi differs even more as he said habitual tendencies (vassanas) must be surrendered. Having talked to devotees, they have alluded to that desires are given up, supposedly because they serve a false entity. So when ego is seen through, these desires as well certain behaviours are dropped. A deep surrender occurs.

20 hours ago, Emerald said:

But people don't need eachother for love... as love is always the case even if all of our needs go unmet... even unto death.

That said, people do need loving relationships with one another to fulfill our psychological and emotional needs. We are a social species. 

 Why is the absolute view worth even mentioning? It means nothing. It is an easy way to fool oneself.

Unless that translates into the relative -- a knowing that love is always here. That means contentment of where you are. Of course this means you are free to enter relationships. Yes this is true you are free to do so. But why bother at that point? This is my point. But you are saying there is not translation here. 

It isn't out of the question to imagine a person who does not have any social needs and it happy (but to imagine someone who never eat is difficult even though people might be able to do this). In fact many people will be forced to find happiness with way as God has not given them people to love them for whatever reason. People have such varied experiences. Go talk to people a wide variety of people from different areas of the world. A Christian who couldn't find love, people who go to Mooji's meeting, a  women who lives in a conservative part of the Middle East, an impoverished person who will never see beyond where they live, a women who has such low self-esteem and feels ugly -- I can go on giving examples I have come across. If they are to be happy, there is no choice for most of these people to free themselves from a lot of their need for intimacy in another.

In a non-duality meeting, a man said to the teacher that he was fearful of never getting married. The teacher said forwardly ''You won't care about that kind of stuff once you understand this''. 

It's quite interesting how you concrete you portray social needs like physiological needs. But to test what you say, the best thing I can do is for me to see if I can be free of social needs. The pandemic has shown me I definitely don't need other people as much as I believed, though I am not totally free. 

 

 

 

 

[Gesundheit]

6 hours ago, Emerald said:

Enlighten me then. Tell me about your experiences that have gone deeper than my deepest experience. I'd be very excited to hear about that.

But be forewarned, you can't tell me the sky is green without me pushing back on it when I've witnessed myself that it is not.

Sounds like you're trying to challenge me and prove me wrong, which you've projected onto me earlier. It seems like an accurate shot in the foot.

Now, the mere fact that you even ask to hear about my experiences shows how shallow you've gone. I am not sure what it is exactly that you want to hear or even how it would affect your perception of me.

What you're missing is that epistemology is far more important than experience, because you can have all the experiences in the world and still misinterpret them. Not that I don't have the experience (btw, I would be more than happy to tell you all about my experience in private if you are genuinely interested), but that I don't cling to it as absolute truth without first examining and refining it with proper epistemology. The insights themselves are the proof, not the other way around. And as a matter of fact, I've already given you insights that you had no access to before, and in some cases still don't. For example, I've already shown you how selfish all humans are, when you initially assumed that only males are selfish. Another example is the bunch of epistemological errors that you've fell into regarding psychology. Not that I'm trying to convince you of my "high" level. I am not trying to sell you ideology here. Contemplate what I say impartially, and maybe you will realize the truth in it.

6 hours ago, Emerald said:

Also, I don't know where you heard that I have a hatred towards men. Most of my gender-related issues that I've had to work through have been hatred of women, femininity, and myself as an extension of that. I do sometimes get jealous/frustrated towards men at not having to grapple with these issues to the same degree and/or just simply not understanding nor even really being curious about it. That's my main axe to grind, generally speaking.

Maybe I've got that part wrong.

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

I quite enjoy sparring.

Actually, I wanted to state many times that I think we would make very close friends in real life, but I kept it to myself out of pride. I am still hesitant as I'm writing this because I'm anticipating a perception of neediness or people-pleasing on your side, which I don't think is an unrealistic expectation, given your history of projection.

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

With the misogyny and sexism part, though it may not be stated explicitly in these posts, I do see that that's part of what's at the root of his defensive behavior. Misogyny is a way to cope with fears and insecurities relative to women and femininity. And generally, the more fearful a man is of women, the more misogynistic, condescending, and reductive he will be.  And the "disagreeability" is just a way to rationalize the defensiveness and insecurity. 

It's an experience that women have all the time and it has a certain flavor to it that's not easily mistakable. 

And he has expressed other things in the past that give hints of having a generally unfavorable, defensive, or reductive outlook towards women. These are very accurate litmus tests of whether or not someone has a chip on their shoulder relative to women. 

This may not be something you notice because you're a man. But it tends to be more obvious from the female perspective because we're used to that flavor. 

I can't really say anything about this. I will only confirm again that it is all your projection.

You're ignoring my truth and are convinced that I am lying. It's really hard to change a first impression, and I couldn't care less about it.

[Jodistrict]

Does anybody else find Teal’s selection of the word “containment”  to be somewhat odd?

Here is one definition:

Containment:

1) the act or condition of containing.
2) an act or policy of restricting the territorial growth or ideological influence of another, especially a hostile nation.
3)  an act or policy of limiting the expansion or spread of a natural disaster, contagious disease, or other dangerous thing.
4)  (in a nuclear power plant) an enclosure completely surrounding a nuclear reactor, designed to prevent the release of radioactive material in the event of an accident.

Could someone using this term as something she needs actually be expressing her fear of being dangerous to herself and others?  

I think the useful lesson for a man here is to ask a woman the question:  “what do you need from a man?” and then listen to what she is telling you about herself, and then decide if she is someone healthy that you would want to be with.   I would prefer someone who says something like “I am looking for a partner with whom I can grow and enjoy life”.  If she says she needs containment, I will give her a geiger counter.  
 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Jodistrict