Teal swan - what a woman needs from a man in a relationship

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Farnaby said:

@Gesundheit As a psychologist, I have to agree with @Emerald.

Even if on the absolute level many psychological needs stem from the ego and lead to suffering (as the Buddha said), bypassing those needs will have some serious consequences on your overall health, not only mental but also physical. 

However, you're right when you say that no paradigm is perfect or complete and that there is no 100% agreement on what mental wellbeing really is. I would even argue that many psychologists haven't done enough deep inner work to really know what psychological health really means and they get stuck teaching new coping mechanisms that may cause less suffering than the previous ones but will eventually not solve the deeper issues. 

But anyways, my point is that taking care of your psychological needs is as important as taking care of your physical needs. Neglect one of them and you will see some nasty consequences sooner or later.

Psychological needs DO NOT exist after enlightenment!

Please do not paraphrase from Emerald. She projected a whole lot of things. I didn't say neglect or stop caring for yourself whether physically or psychologically. She misinterpreted what I said out of whatever things she's experiencing.

Enlightenment is paradoxical. So whatever applies before enlightenment does not necessarily apply after. That's what I'm saying.

The self/ego, which is what psychology essentially is, is gone after full enlightenment, which I'm not claiming that I have, neither am I claiming that it's 100% possible. It's just what it seems to me from my experiences.

I must say that it may not be realistic to remove the self/ego 100%. However, 99% may be possible. If you had only 1% of your current ego, would you still have the same needs or only 1% of them? And wouldn't that change your whole understanding of psychology? Because if you can be well without what you initially thought is necessary, then what does that say about its actual value? Note also that this opens the door to this unique possibility: The remaining 1% can then be viewed as a new 100% and then one can work on removing 99% of it, and so forth.

If you put an enlightened "person" (I'm using quotation marks because I know some genius will come and say that the person can't be enlightened) and an unenlightened person to the same psychological challenges, how do you anticipate their reactions will be? How will they be affected, physically, emotionally, and psychologically? And who will experience more suffering and form more defence mechanisms? If you disagree, can you give me at least one example of what you expect to happen in a hypothetical situation?

What seems to be missing in your worldview is the importance of the relationship between conscious awareness and the subconscious mind. Enlightenment shifts this relationship. The subconscious becomes conscious, the shadow gets reintegrated, and the self becomes The Self. In traditional psychology, it is assumed that The Mind is made-up of different smaller "minds". This distinction is true before enlightenment (I guess because it's coming from the general population). And it's the basis of enlightenment work. People have different definitions of enlightenment, so it may be tricky to find a common ground here. But that's what I'm saying essentially. If you have any criticism of my views, please critique what I said. Others interpret things from their povs, and I don't take ownership of/responsibility for anything outside of my own words. Thanks.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Samuel Garcia said:

Say that when Emerald is not satisfied in the conscious relationship. Self-deception is a sneaky one

You should go to a Rupert Spira meeting and tell him people need other people for love 

If Emerald is not satisfied in a conscious relationships it is not self-loving OR Self-loving to keep the relationship in the current state.

The relationship dissatisfaction must lead either to fixing things so that both partners are satisfied... or the relationship must end.

Also, funny enough, I was watching a Rupert Spira video yesterday after years of not having watched him. And he expressly said that his perspective wasn't that people should avoid relationship. 

But people don't need eachother for love... as love is always the case even if all of our needs go unmet... even unto death.

That said, people do need loving relationships with one another to fulfill our psychological and emotional needs. We are a social species. 

Again, all of this is about honoring both the absolute perspective and the relative perspective.

So, when Rupert Spira is approaching his teachings, he is focusing more on integrating the absolute perspective. And this is helpful if a person doesn't misunderstand and go spiritually bypassing their human needs.

So Rupert Spira isn't going to tell you that enlightenment is going to dispossess you of your human nature and your relative needs as such. 

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Farnaby said:

@Gesundheit As a psychologist, I have to agree with @Emerald.

Even if on the absolute level many psychological needs stem from the ego and lead to suffering (as the Buddha said), bypassing those needs will have some serious consequences on your overall health, not only mental but also physical. 

However, you're right when you say that no paradigm is perfect or complete and that there is no 100% agreement on what mental wellbeing really is. I would even argue that many psychologists haven't done enough deep inner work to really know what psychological health really means and they get stuck teaching new coping mechanisms that may cause less suffering than the previous ones but will eventually not solve the deeper issues. 

But anyways, my point is that taking care of your psychological needs is as important as taking care of your physical needs. Neglect one of them and you will see some nasty consequences sooner or later.

@Gesundheit

Exactly. Psychological needs are just part of the way that the mind/body works. 

This doesn't change when we realize the deeper nature of Self.

And this is because the human self never becomes enlightened. 

The human self just plays itself out by the same rules that it was bound by before.

The shift of enlightenment is that the universe has woken itself up to realizing that it isn't just this human self.

But the human self playing out in this relative reality story still has all the same needs... both physical and psychological. 

"Before enlightenment, chop wood carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood carry water."

[Gesundheit]

@Emerald Sigh. You're repeating yourself.

I'm telling you that your potential is much more than you think it is, and you're insisting on limiting yourself. So I will proceed with perfecting my wings and enjoying my freedom and flying into the highest heavens. And you stay where you are.

Not only you don't have wings or don't believe in them, but you're legless and proud. Well, if you like being crippled that much, I won't interfere.

Have a good day/night.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

@Emerald Sigh. You're repeating yourself.

I'm telling you that your potential is much more than you think it is, and you're insisting on limiting yourself. So I will proceed with perfecting my wings and enjoying my freedom and flying into the highest heavens. And you stay where you are.

Not only you don't have wings or don't believe in them, but you're legless and proud. Well, if you like being crippled that much, I won't interfere.

Have a good day/night.

What I'm saying is that you don't actually know what you're talking about. You're speculating and coming to incorrect conclusions.

Also, your humanity is not something to be resisted against or transcended. To attempt to do so is just spiritual bypassing.

[Gesundheit]

1 minute ago, Emerald said:

What I'm saying is that you don't actually know what you're talking about. You're speculating and coming to incorrect conclusions.

You're basically telling me that I'm lying, and that's enough offence. But maybe, just maybe, I'm completely honest and you're simply too closed-minded to see what I'm saying. Did that ever occur to you?

4 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Also, your humanity is not something to be resisted against or transcended. To attempt to do so is just spiritual bypassing.

What you call humanity is your idea of humanness. I'm not destroying my humanness. Humanity is sick with delusions, and enlightenment is the original state. Again, if you like being crippled, I have nothing to say to you. I like being free and healthy.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

You're basically telling me that I'm lying, and that's enough offence. But maybe, just maybe, I'm completely honest and you're simply too closed-minded to see what I'm saying. Did that ever occur to you?

What you call humanity is your idea of humanness. I'm not destroying my humanness. Humanity is sick with delusions, and enlightenment is the original state. Again, if you like being crippled, I have nothing to say to you. I like being free and healthy.

I'm sorry. But I have direct experience that contradicts your views.

[jerrypua]

People on this thread be like:

[Surfingthewave]

5 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Psychological needs DO NOT exist after enlightenment!

Please do not paraphrase from Emerald. She projected a whole lot of things. 

Enlightenment is paradoxical. So whatever applies before enlightenment does not necessarily apply after. That's what I'm saying.

What seems to be missing in your worldview is the importance of the relationship between conscious awareness and the subconscious mind. Enlightenment shifts this relationship. The subconscious becomes conscious, the shadow gets reintegrated, and the self becomes The Self. 

Psychological needs do exist after Enlightenment. Stop spreading misinformation. Or back it up with sources. Do you think you could be projecting? 

There seems to be a lot of perceptions of Enlightenment here, it is an incredibly unique experience so please be careful.  Sometimes a thread needs to be closed. 

Moderators? 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Surfingthewave

[Raptorsin7]

@Emerald Do you consider yourself enlightened after your ayahuasca trip?

[Byun Sean]

4 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Humanity is sick with delusions, and enlightenment is the original state.

This phrase is already enough to tell your not awake.

@Gesundheit

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Surfingthewave said:

Psychological needs do exist after Enlightenment.

Lol they don't exist even before enlightenment, but I was being generous. You're claiming that they exist, well then, show me. Bring forth your strongest evidence. My argument is that people have existed long before modern psychology, and they lived their lives and died of natural causes. So, clearly there's no such thing as psychological needs. I don't even need enlightened people to disprove psychological needs. Two normal persons will react differently to the same external event. Why? Because each of us perceives the world differently. You're trying to make your individual perception universal, well good luck with that.

Whatever you imagine you need psychologically, is simply your imagination. Just because you suffer from your imagination being unmet does not make it real. It makes it rather unnecessary and something to get rid of. Attachment is the problem, not the truth.

Y'all disagreeing with me are too soft for enlightenment. And nobody is forcing you to believe me or even to chase enlightenment. If you like your current level, then so be it. Go ahead and stay where you are. I'm not gonna push anything on you. But I will speak my truth regardless, and the truth is harsh. So, of course, you will not like it.

[Raptorsin7]

@Gesundheit Dude are you even enlightened?

[Gesundheit]

@Etherial Cat

I'm not, but your perception is understandable.

The mods are welcome to judge, btw.

[Aquarius]

On 3/7/2021 at 8:31 PM, StarStruck said:

If you are in pickup try to find out how her dad was and model her dad. 

The tricky part is that she will be unconscious and in denial about her dad if her dad wasn't perfect, which is rare. 

You have to fish for clues without being to obvious. At the same time connect the dots. 

Beautiful concepts. Are any dads perfect? I think my dad is close to perfect, but I wish he contacted me more often. He tries to make me contact him.

Or so might be my perception. I don't need to contact him. If he needs me help he has my number. He's playing mind games though to see how much I care about him. 

Like some men I dated before. 

[Aquarius]

On 3/8/2021 at 2:28 AM, IAmReallyImportant said:

I think there is also a lot of discrimination going on saying e.g. homosexual women are more masculine or homosexual men are more feminine. Can imagine that it doesn't feel good to certain people.

I'm not homosexual but it feels bad when people try to make me more feminine than I am just because I have a female body and I was born a girl.

And that doesn't make me transgender. I just don't receive it well when people try to model me to their wants, needs and desires. 

[Aquarius]

6 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@Etherial Cat

I'm not, but your perception is understandable.

The mods are welcome to judge, btw.

I'm not a mod, and I might not be judging. Just saying that you can give useful advice without being rude.

And if someone pointed out to you that you seemed rude, somewhere shadow work has to happen. Question where and in who's mind? 

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Gesundheit Dude are you even enlightened?

What difference does that make? Or would that make?

[Gesundheit]

37 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

Just saying that you can give useful advice without being rude.

And I agree. But I wasn't giving advice, neither was I rude. I was just saying my truth, and the truth is harsh and some people are too soft.

In fact, it's even the other way around: I'm the one who's being insulted, judged, critisized, projected on, straw-manned, etc... repeatedly, but I'm keeping my patience and taking it all lightly. For example, Emerald implied multiple times that I'm a liar or ignorant, and she made too many projections/assumptions on my level of realization and embodiment, even though I stated multiple times that I don't claim enlightenment. If I was to level myself down, the thread would become a chimp shit-flinging exhibition. I'm not claiming perfection, though. So, I admit that I may have lost my temper here and there. But overall, I'm the victim here, and people are trying to throw their responsibility/problems/shadows at me so that they can portray me as the abuser in order avoid looking inwards. That's the ego, my friend. It's extremely clever.

37 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

And if someone pointed out to you that you seemed rude, somewhere shadow work has to happen. Question where and in who's mind?

Technically, it isn't my problem. If someone feels offended without being insulted, then that's on them. I take responsibility for my feelings and expect everyone to do the same. I'm not here to comfort people or sell them tasty/cozy ideas. I'm here to talk truth. People will react and be offended, and that's par for the course, because truth is not ego-friendly. The ego is a tricky thing to deal with, and it will use all possible justifications and defense mechanisms to preserve itself.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Aquarius]

41 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

And I agree. But I wasn't giving advice, neither was I rude. I was just saying my truth, and the truth is harsh and some people are too soft.

In fact, it's even the other way around: I'm the one who's being insulted, judged, critisized, projected on, straw-manned, etc... repeatedly, but I'm keeping my patience and taking it all lightly. For example, Emerald implied multiple times that I'm a liar or ignorant, and she made too many projections/assumptions on my level of realization and embodiment, even though I stated multiple times that I don't claim enlightenment. If I was to level myself down, the thread would become a chimp shit-flinging exhibition. I'm not claiming perfection, though. So, I admit that I may have lost my temper here and there. But overall, I'm the victim here, and people are trying to throw their responsibility/problems/shadows at me so that they can portray me as the abuser in order avoid looking inwards. That's the ego, my friend. It's extremely clever.

Beautiful and healthy thinking. Thank you. I'm sorry you're feeling like the victim and that you've been victimized. I empathize with the situation. Sadly in spiritual communities this thing happens often and I've been part of it too, both as victim and I do feel like I projected my wounds on people. That's why I have my shadow journal open in front of me (the actual physical one), to note down insights and ideas. 

Also I didn't read what you wrote to Emerald, when I replied to you before I only read the post I quoted. Maybe I just made an impression of some sort, or had a certain epiphany. For myself I mean, but I felt inclined to share my thoughts. 

The ox on the picture of your profile pic reminds me of myself. I am an ox in Chinese astrology. 

It's all nicely connected in some way, but it's up to us to travel through it smoothly, and I'm saying this to myself too.

[zeroISinfinity]

@Hulia

Screw this 'masculine containment' and similar BS. 

Lets talk about normal stuff. 

You said man and women find their look alikes in physical sense attractive. 

Here Eban Pagan. 

I will give you that. Subconciously it gives sense of security (like siblings, I know sounds scary) for long term relationship. But in long run atleast for me it doesn't give long term sexual desire for her. 

It looks good too when I meet her with my grandma lol. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by zeroISinfinity