Teal swan - what a woman needs from a man in a relationship

[Gesundheit]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The situtation is not as bad as you portray it be.

It's not bad at all, actually. Some people simply accept reality, and others don't. It's only bad for the ego.

[Hardkill]

8 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Theoretically, that's true, until tested. 

Again, the only reason a man will be monogomous is lack of options. Give him an opportunity and see how quickly he will cheat. Any man will cheat in a blink of an eye when presented with opportunity. The less abundant, the more likely he will cheat. And vice-versa.

That’s actually true. Unless, he’s one of those rare guys who has had enough of his fill with women and finally just wants to settle down with one woman and/or is a truly devout man.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Hardkill

[Preety_India]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

He can't tell you that because you will get disguised and leave.

You can't handle hearing what a man is really attracted to, you want him to be attracted to what serves you. Hence men have to hide and play games. Because unless he plays games, you will reject him.

That's my exact point. No matter what the other person does, say what you want. 

For example if I suddenly decide to dress unsexily, that's how I feel powerful, because It means I don't give a fuck if he rejects me or not. 

For example, in one of my relationships, I deliberately cut my hair really short and showed it to my boyfriend who was really pissed off because he liked long hair on me. 

But I wanted to make a statement that I wanted to live by my own code. That's my way of showing female confidence. We argued for a week just over my haircut but my bratty self wouldn't give up.

What I mean here is be authentic no matter what. That's what authenticity means. No fear of consequences or judgement. 

Men need to practice confidence and authenticity. It will make them attractive. If you stood next to me harping on whatever obnoxious things you wanted, I would actually admire your authenticity and confidence to pull off that. Because that makes you look different from the 99%.

The final result was that my boyfriend started respecting me more after the statement haircut, because he could see that I didn't give a fuck what he thought. It made him admire me more over time. He saw me as unconquerable.

Authenticity and confidence comes with a price but it looks way better than being a sleazy and manipulative hustler. 

And there are prizes. If you showed that kind of honesty, you end up meeting the best. 

 

[intotheblack]

@Gesundheit what you’re saying is true for many men yes, and of course men are stereotypically known to cheat at the first opportunity.  And if someone is that quick to cheat at the first opportunity they get then that just says something about their lack of self control.
having fantasies and acting out on them are 2 different things.  Both men and women fantasise and look at other people.  Doesn’t mean they will automatically cheat if given the chance. 

many men are committed to their loved ones and are family men at heart.  It all comes down to being content and appreciating what you have.  Cheating and sleeping with lots of people is just constantly chasing something. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by intotheblack

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

That's my exact point. No matter what the other person does, say what you want.

Haha!

Now you are playing the ultimate game.

Your game is to get everyone to stop playing games so that you get the upper hand.

You see how sneaky you are?!

You want mating and survival to be honest, but survival is grounded in dishonesty, selfishness, and manipulation. The desire to make survival selfless and honest it the highest form of dishonesty and self-deception.

Human mating will always involve games, because it is a game. The fact that it has serious consequences does not make it any less of a game. In fact, that's what makes it such a serious game. Since the stakes are life and death, games will be played by both sides. This is the nature of the beast and if you want to be honest then you have to start by admitting that.

The most honest position in a dating situation is this: "I will game you and you will game me. Let's play and see what happens. Let's enjoy it."

When you say: "Oh, I'm above that. I don't play any games. I'm not selfish like you, so you should stop being selfish and stop playing games because that's gross." << that is dishonest and that is your game.

[Parththakkar12]

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Men need to practice confidence and authenticity. It will make them attractive. If you stood next to me harping on whatever obnoxious things you wanted, I would actually admire your authenticity and confidence to pull off that. Because that makes you look different from the 99%.

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Biggest joke ever.

The risks are too high. That's not confidence, that's foolishness! You aren't a man, so you don't know how ready people are to falsely accuse you when you say things like that. If you're falsely accused, you're done.

Do you know what this is called? Catcalling. I can't believe you are advocating for catcalling!!

Edited March 9, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Hello from Russia]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Haha!

Now you are playing the ultimate game.

Your game is to get everyone to stop playing games so that you get the upper hand.

You see how sneaky you are?!

You want mating and survival to be honest, but survival is grounded in dishonesty, selfishness, and manipulation. The desire to make survival selfless and honest it the highest form of dishonesty and self-deception.

Human mating will always involve games, because it is a game.

How do you create conscious relationships then?

[Raphael]

1 minute ago, Hello from Russia said:

How do you create conscious relationships then?

Balance.

[zeroISinfinity]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Haha!

Now you are playing the ultimate game.

Your game is to get everyone to stop playing games so that you get the upper hand.

You see how sneaky you are?!

You want mating and survival to be honest, but survival is grounded in dishonesty, selfishness, and manipulation. The desire to make survival selfless and honest it the highest form of dishonesty and self-deception.

Human mating will always involve games, because it is a game. The fact that it has serious consequences does not make it any less of a game. In fact, that's what makes it such a serious game. Since the stakes are life and death, games will be played by both sides. This is the nature of the beast and if you want to be honest than you have to start by admitting that.

That's why Padre Nuestro doesn't beleive a single word coming from human mouths. Haha! 

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

How do you create conscious relationships then?

Well, now you understand why conscious relationships are so rare.

It's possible, but it's very challenging precisely for these reasons. Because the whole point of most relationships is selfish gain. If you didn't desire selfish gain you probably wouldn't ever enter a relationship to begin with. So there is a deep existential paradox here.

Why relate at all if you need nothing? And if you need something, then you are selfish and that selfishness will sour your relationship.

This is the whole problem of desire. As Buddha said, all desire leads to suffering. And so it does. So if you enter a relationship you should be aware that your doing so will cause suffering. The suffering is existentially baked into the structure of the thing. Because the truth is, if you were happy without a relationship, you wouldn't pursue it at all.

If you think about it, a relationship is really no different than shooting up heroin. You are a fool if you think there won't be suffering involved. If you're going to do it at all, at least admit to yourself that there will be suffering, rather than doing the surprised pikachu face when it inevitably blindsides you upside the head.

Think about it. The best case scenario in a perfect long-term relationship is that you die before your partner does. Or else you have to watch them die and suffer terribly. But either way, one of you will suffer terribly.

[integral]

I have never and will never cheat on a partner, why would i deliberately hurt another person?

Dont confuse your level of development for biology. 

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Biggest joke ever.

The risks are too high. That's not confidence, that's foolishness! You aren't a man, so you don't know how ready people are to falsely accuse you when you say things like that. If you're falsely accused, you're done.

 

Well the point is you can't get too far in life with all the selfish biases and gaming and strategy. Attraction will happen but I doubt a fulfilling relationship can come out of that because what you totally forget and step aside that no relationship in this world only works on 100% attraction.. There is much more to it so if you only fixate on attraction, you're stuck in a circle. Attraction is just 1 dimension. If you get it figured out, you shouldn't stay stuck with it but go to the next level of connection, consciousness and intimacy. 

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He can't tell you that because you will get disguised and leave.

You can't handle hearing what a man is really attracted to, you want him to be attracted to what serves you. Hence men have to hide and play games. Because unless he plays games, you will reject him.

If a man walked up to a woman and honestly said, "Hey, I find you sexy. Let's fuck." He would never ever get laid. But that is honestly how most guys feel. But we also know you ladies would never accept it, hence we play games. You want the man to be attracted to your nonphysical attributes, but that is not what a man needs most from a woman and it is not what he is most attracted to. And no amount of logic will change that.

So again, the issue is one of self-bias. If you find men's sexual attraction gross, that's not the man's problem or fault. That's your self-bias and it is part of your game. It is like finding it gross that peacocks are attracted to big tails. That is not the peacock's problem. That is your problem. There is nothing inherently gross about it. The peacock likes what it likes and your desire for the peacock to like something else, something that you want him to like, is selfish and absurd.

Imagine if you scolded a peacock at the zoo and told it to stop liking big tails because it's too shallow and empty, and instead to like personality and deep intimacy. The peacock would look at you stupid, and carry on with chasing big tails, as it has for a million years.

To be honest, this is exactly what I want the man to do. 

When I see a man liking me for my beauty, I don't see an emotional connection there. But I still want him to be honest so that I can reject him instantly. 

So if he is not honest about getting laid with me, it's a waste of my time because I figure it out 6 months later that that's what he wanted with me. 

And I don't want that. Getting laid is easy but getting a true connection is difficult. 

I shouldn't need to be manipulated for a man to satisfy his needs. In some ways its unethical. 

But I get your point that survival itself is selfish and manipulative. 

[Peter Miklis]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is true that we can and should pursue higher stuff. Game B. But we also have to recognize that we are deeply stuck in Game A right now, and that is not easy to ignore. Most guys are barely able to survive playing Game A such that Game B is like talking calculus to a mule.

And here's the thing: most women are playing Game A too. Very few women are playing Game B. So few that it is not a viable dating strategy to tailor your game to Game B women.

The ladies on this forum are advocating for Game B dating and relationships. That's great. But that can only happen in rare cases. Most men here are concered with getting laid, and for that purpose Game A is most effective. So we have here not only a male vs female bias issue, we have a Game A vs Game B issue.

Well, I'm not against learning about B game, even though it doesn't serve me now, it may serve me in future. The thing is, I don't even understand what it is. It's not that well articulated and seems really hokey-pokey, even tho it isn't.

It's like the more esoteric and abstract you get with this stuff, the less practical and applicable it is in real world.

[Hardkill]

 @Leo Gura so, are all off those skinny runway model women who have flat chests and flat asses a great actually not as physically attractive as female celebs and supermodels who are busty and have a sexy bubblebutts?

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

To be honest, this is exactly what I want the man to do.

Even if I grant you that (which I don't, because in fact your ego cannot handle the raw truth of such things as you believe), the reality is that most women cannot handle the raw truth of it, so games will be played.

You are not one woman in the world. You are part of 4 billion other women, and men's dating strategies will not revolve around your exceptional case but around how average women react. And average women react very poorly to truth about male attraction. You yourself reacted poorly to it earlier in this thread by calling it "gross".

When you call a man's deepest desires "gross", can you really blame him for not being truthful about it with you any more? Men would love nothing more than to be honest about their desires for women and not play games. But life has taught men never to be so foolish or naive. Being honest and direct hurts men's survival. Which is why they are not honest or direct.

The reality is that most women require plausible deniability and anti-slut narratives in order to sleep with a man. Hence games are played. If a man walks up to a woman in front of all her friends and say, "I like you. Let's go fuck." and she says, "Yes" she will forever be disgraced and excommunicated from her social circle. Which for a woman is about as bad as death. So she is forced to say, "I'm not that kind of girl", even though she wants to fuck him. And hence game is born.

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Even if I grant you that (which I don't, because in fact your cannot handle the raw truth of such things as you believe), the reality is that most women cannot handle the raw truth of it, so games will be played.

You are not one woman in the world. You are part of 4 billion other women and men's dating strategies will not revolved around you but around how other women react.

My ultimate point  is this. Being honest helps all parties involved. Less pain and less hurt for everyone. I will be honest about what I want in a man and he will be honest about what he wants in a woman. 

Less heartbreak in the world this way. 

Ultimately inauthenticity leads to more pain in the long run. 

I'm talking about Game B. 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Preety_India

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

My ultimate point  is this. Being honest helps all parties involved. Less pain and less hurt for everyone. I will be honest about what I want in a man and he will be honest about what he wants in a woman.

I'm talking about Game B.

Yes

And it would be great if we lived in a world without nukes. But we are stuck with nukes for the time being and it would be foolish for any one country to fully disarm.

Game B is a great ideal. Unfortunately is barely exists in today's world and it is unrealistic to expect it. You are free to play Game B if you want, but don't be surprised when most people are playing Game A as you play Game B. This is what keeps Game B from being commonplace. We are stuck in a precarious survival situation, an arms race.

It is helpful to appreciate and accept that. That, in fact, is a necessary part of escaping Game A.

It is sort of like you are saying: "Go ahead and disarm all your nukes. You don't need them. Look, I've disarmed all of mine." But in fact you have not disarmed all of yours. And we are wise to this. You got a nuke in your back pocket. You clever devil

[Peter Miklis]

3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

My ultimate point  is this. Being honest helps all parties involved. Less pain and less hurt for everyone. I will be honest about what I want in a man and he will be honest about what he wants in a woman. 

Less heartbreak in the world this way. 

Ultimately inauthenticity leads to more pain in the long run. 

I'm talking about Game B. 

 

No, it's less pain and less heartbreak for YOU. Get it right.

[zeroISinfinity]

@Peter Miklis

Helping women who are masters of this game and their entire life is invested and revolve around this, really? 

Better to help guys. 

[TheAlchemist]

37 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

 @Leo Gura so, are all off those skinny runway model women who have flat chests and flat asses a great actually not as physically attractive as female celebs and supermodels who are busty and have a sexy bubblebutts?

Studies have been done where they looked at the brain activity (neurophysiological responses with EEG) of men to different female body types. The best predictor of self-rated attractiveness and also activity (related to attraction) in the brain was a low waist to hip ratio, and large breasts. These qualities cause a reaction in the male brain because they have some survival value. 

Since we were getting into the topic of titology here, there are many interesting theories as to why larger breasts have evolved. One of them is that large breast trigger a similiar reaction in the male brain as large hips (which have survival value for increased ability to give birth safely) due to the similiar shape. This way those women with larger breasts have reproduced more, because more men on average have had an attraction to them. In many studies "unnaturally' thin women have been demonstrated to consistently cause a negative, anti-attraction reaction in the male brain. Runway models being thin has more to do with the aesthetics and how it makes the clothes drape better.

Now, we can't make any oughts from what is observed here. And a lot is still unknown or inconclusive, this is just one perpective. Still, it is undeniable that many of these are powerful mechanisms hard wired into our brains, and they are bound to affect what we pursue. These forces of evolution create the basis for the distinct biases men and women have. And here we are, having a difficult time understanding each others brains that work very similiarly in most other ways, but quite differently in regards to attraction. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by TheAlchemist