Teal swan - what a woman needs from a man in a relationship

[knakoo]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course you can and should still do that.

Containment is offered by being a strong man.

And nothing I say is anti- healthy relationships. One leads into the other. Once she falls in love with you, THEN you can offer her all the perks of a highly conscious and empathetic man. But not before.

A very strong, masculine man but emotionally distant will not really provide containment for a woman. There is no fully satisfying containment for a woman without intimacy.

[Lyubov]

43 minutes ago, knakoo said:

There is a difference in the sense that a big pair of tits play a role in the man's attraction, whereas a man providing feminine containment is mainly what a woman is looking for in a relationship. If a guy is actually looking for a big pair of tits as an essential criteria in a relationship, then it would be totally fair to call him shallow !

This is pretty much exactly what Leo mentioned in that same post earlier about how "they get offended and call men gross and shallow and sexist for wanting it." The word shallow is what I'm talking about here. I don't care if I'm labeled shallow. It's what I desire and I'm not going to settle on anything less than a physically beautiful woman.

I only want a girlfriend that has an amazing body, cute face and fits for the most part towards my physical preferences in women (fit body, nice ass, long healthy hair, tan, etc). 

Nothing wrong with that and it's just the other side of the coin to woman saying they want a confident man.

[Willie]

Is there a difference between needing containment and being a dependent? Is there a difference between providing containment and needing a dependent?

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Women routinely misrepresent what they are attracted to in men. This confuses many men. Hence I say some of the things I say to men, to clear up that confusion in their minds.

Can you say in a few sentences or less what exactly women are attracted to in men?

[Emerald]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Women not only don't care what men want, they get offended and call men gross and shallow and sexist for wanting it.

So please spare us.

Imagine if men on this forum started a thread about the ideal pair of tits they want and how women should be more understanding and accommodating on this matter. It would be called outrageous and sexist. Even though there is no fundamental difference between wanting a big pair of tits vs wanting a man who offers you "feminine containment".

Women routinely misrepresent what they are attracted to in men. This confuses many men. Hence I say some of the things I say to men, to clear up that confusion in their minds. The situation is asymmetrical because men do not misrepresemt what they are truly attracted to in women. It would be like telling everyone how vegan you are, but when you get to the restaurant you always choose the pork ribs rather than the salad. It's important for the chef to know that what you really eat is the ribs vs the salad so he can plan accordingly, regardless of what you tell yourself in your head.

Women's attraction is less honest and more convoluted. A man's attraction is more direct and straight forward.

So false equivalence indeed!

There is quite a big difference between wanting big tits on a woman and a woman wanting masculine containment.

The reason why men are attracted to tits in the first place is because they feed the babies that the man will make with her. And a woman with small tits can breastfeed a child just as well as a woman with large tits (I know because I've spent 5 years of my life breastfeeding and a good chunk of that time learning about it. Women with more volume to their breasts don't typically produce more milk than women with less volume so it doesn't really confer an advantage toward survival.)

So, big tits is more of a preference thing based in what's fashionable in the day... similar to how men were more attracted to chubbier women in certain eras but men are on average more attracted to thin women today. 

Contrarily with masculine containment, it strikes deeper to the root of our instincts for both feeling protected on the more survival level. If a woman feels protected and held, she can open up. And it's also necessary for women to actually be in her feminine with you, which is something that has an effect on all facets of the self. To play out the dance of the masculine and feminine, masculine containment has to be there.

So, the examples you gave are actual false equivalencies as well, because big tits are not a requirement for a deep and gratifying relationship while masculine containment is. 

But yes, sometimes women do get triggered by what men want sexually. But I honestly don't usually have much of an emotional response to that in and of itself.

Keep in mind, I'm also attracted to women in both the subjectifying and objectifying sense, and I don't find men's sexual interests particularly gross nor inherently demeaning. And I also really enjoy it when a man orients to me that way. As long as I'm not totally boiled down to being solely an object of male pleasure, I tend to like it. 

But women can misrepresent themselves on accident if they are triggered or genuinely inexperienced... and there certainly are tons of wounds. Women and men are frequently orienting to one another in very immature ways because they haven't done the requisite inner work, as I'm sure you can see. So, there are a great many women who may try to mislead you.

But that isn't what I'm doing. I'm taking what I've observed about my own sexuality and telling you what's there. I want men to be able to satisfy their partners because they tend to care a lot about that. I want women to be able to get what they really want for men because they tend to care a lot about that.

So, I have no personal skin in the game to misrepresent myself and my desires. I'm not trying to trick anyone because that would be really stupid as there's enough misrepresentation flying around already.

So, I want you to understand when I say that I am actually seeing this subject more completely than you are, and so are a few others on this thread.

You may not recognize this, but I do understand what men need and want very well... perhaps better than most men do as most would be unwilling to admit to the vulnerabilities that they have. Men tend to hide the very parts in themselves behind the thickest walls of armor they want touched the very most. This is what I can feel about men who armor themselves.

But bottom line is that your relationships will suffer if you fail to integrate the feminine perspective. So, you can either stay stuck in your preferred paradigm that keeps you safe and in control or you can actually become more open-minded about the topic and explore into what's truly interesting about and integral to the relationship to the feminine. 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

Exactly!

BUT, a man can have meaningful relationships with multiple women. He is not limited to one woman. This dynamic has existed throughout history and up until this day (now, it's called cheating). Society used to regulate polyamory into polygamy, which to me seems like the perfect middle-ground for both men and women. Everyone gets what they want. The man gets variety, and the women get stability. Very responsibly. Very straight-forwardly. No avoidance. No tricks. No manipulation. The masculine is satisfied, and the feminine is safe.

In modern times, though, polygamy is demonized. And so men are not able to experience their full masculinity, because modern society represses true masculinity. Men are not allowed to experience their masculinity in its full potential. So, guess what? This will create a shadow. I think the shadow looks glaringly obvious with all the incels, red pillers, etc...

Women nowadays want to keep their men only for themselves, and therefore unknowingly limit their masculinity. And then they complain and wonder why they're not satisfied with them anymore. "Why is my husband not man enough?" or "Why is he cheating on me?". Well, now you know why. That's because y'all ladies are too damn possessive that it eventually comes back to bite us all in the ass.

But you're failing to recognize who the selectors are... 

Women tend to be monogamously oriented and don't typically want to share a man with another woman. 

So if I, as a monogamously oriented woman, was given the choice between investing energy in a man who desires a monogamous relationship and investing energy in a man who desires a polygenist relationship, it becomes quite clear who the more compatible and higher quality partner is. 

Also, most women who are oriented towards polyamory are a bit allergic to polygeny. So, it may be a little difficult to find such a unicorn even amongst polyamorous women, though I'm sure they exist. 

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Women not only don't care what men want, they get offended and call men gross and shallow and sexist for wanting it.

Why should women care about what men want? Are women approaching men? 

I think caring what someone wants  should come from the party doing the approaching. 

Why shouldn't men be called sexist for wanting it? 

Isn't it totally gross to only want a pair of nice tits? Doesn't it reduce a woman to pieces of meat? Which meat is better? 

It's like if I started a thread on penis length and a dick measuring contest? 

Would men be in such splendour and awe if they were reduced only to penis size and nothing else? 

 

 

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So please spare us.

Imagine if men on this forum started a thread about the ideal pair of tits they want and how women should be more understanding and accommodating on this matter. It would be called outrageous and sexist. Even though there is no fundamental difference between wanting a big pair of tits vs wanting a man who offers you "feminine containment".

Well there is a fundamental difference between. One is related to sexual pleasure and the other is related to emotions

Emotional desires have a high consciousness value in comparison to carnal desires. 

Wanting to fuck is not the same as crying over the death of a dog. 

 

 

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Women routinely misrepresent what they are attracted to in men. This confuses many men. Hence I say some of the things I say to men, to clear up that confusion in their minds.

By what authority though? Are you a woman? 

Why would you decide what women get attracted to when you are not even a woman? 

Do you feel like a woman? How would you know what's in her mind and heart exactly if every time she confuses you? 

If she always confuses you, then how are you sure? 

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The situation is asymmetrical because men do not misrepresemt what they are truly attracted to in women.

 

Oh really. I never had a man approach me and say "hey nice pair of tits"... Why is that? Why is he misrepresenting what he truly wants? 

Men pay thousands of dollars to dating coaches to teach them how to stimulate a woman emotionally and how to manipulate them into believing that they are loved. 

Otherwise it's pretty simply fot the so called honesty in men, instead of trying to emotionally stimulate a woman, they should simply say they like the pair of tits. 

Ahm. That doesn't happen. How honest is that? 

Men are totally dishonest about what they want. They maintain an entire relationship on this dishonesty causing women emotional suffering. 

Next time tell men to be totally open about what they want instead of using fancy pickup lines taught by dating coaches and hunters. 

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It would be like telling everyone how vegan you are, but when you get to the restaurant you always choose the pork ribs rather than the salad. It's important for the chef to know that what you really eat is the ribs vs the salad so he can plan accordingly, regardless of what you tell yourself in your head.

Women constantly tell men what they want. Constantly. You know what the response from men is? 

The most beautiful response is 

"don't listen to women" 

Try listening sometimes 

 

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Women's attraction is less honest and more convoluted. A man's attraction is more direct and straight forward.

Nah. It's men's attraction that is not only gross for a woman but most men only earn a woman by dishonesty and manipulation which pua circles are full of 

Teach men to listen to women rather than telling them that women don't know anything 

Men know 200% what women want. They simply deny it and impose their selfish desires on us without even caring to fulfil our desires in return. 

Since as per you, men do not misrepresent what they want, next time you walk up to a girl, tell her that you only like pair of tits and only wanted to get laid. And please do let us know how your honest conversations went. Haha

No man ever landed a woman by being honest. That's why men always and always misrepresent what they want because deep down they know that they will be turned down for it. 

Courage and honesty lies in speaking the truth without the fear of consequences or validation. 

If men fear the consequences of their honesty and that causes them to lie, they are neither honest nor courageous. 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Preety_India

[Lyubov]

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

There is quite a big difference between wanting big tits on a woman and a woman wanting masculine containment.

I do agree there is a difference between the two but on the contrary you could switch out big tits with physical preferences and if that is absent then from the masculine's perspective there will be no desire to contain her in the first place. I think it's a prerequisite as well. I don't desire to contain or bring out the feminine in any woman but one that I find physically attractive. It plays just as big a role even if they are different parts of the process. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Lyubov

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I like this metaphor. I honestly feel similarly when I'm in this section of the forum. 

Yeah, it's really common

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Lyubov said:

I do agree there is a difference between the two but on the contrary you could switch out big tits with physical preferences and that is absent then from the masculine's perspective there will be no desire to contain it. I think it's a prerequisite as well. I don't desire to contain any feminine woman but one that I find physically attractive. It plays just as big a role even if they are different aspects or parts of the process. 

And likewise, no woman wants to be contained by a man she doesn't find attractive either. Attraction is all part of it. 

But once the attraction occurs, the deeper relationship isn't any more served by adding big tits to the equation... as attractive as that may be.

But masculine containment and feminine surrender are vital ingredients of the deeper relationship.

[Lyubov]

Call me shallow but I would choose as a partner any day of the week a woman whose physical beautify far exceeds my preferences/standards but has some healing to do and causes some friction between us on a regular basis over a really conscious woman that just barely meets my own personal preferences/standards. Seems like most women would do the same with a strong/confident man vs a meek man.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Lyubov

[Gili Trawangan]

6 minutes ago, modmyth said:

What does this mean for you personally?

It means being fully accepted. It means being accepted when you're strong and when you feel weak. Being accepted when you're at your most masculine and when you're in feminine energy as well. It also means that they want YOU regardless of circumstance. That a woman wants you whether you're kicking ass with your career or whether you've lost your job and can't find another one. Whether you're feeling high energy or low energy. Whether you're having a driven and powerful phase or a lazy and apathetic one.

Anyway, that's the fantasy.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, because these biases are baked into the male and female survival agenda.

To a man, the attraction is most relevant. To a woman, the relationship is more relevant. And each side will stress what is most relevant to them out of their selfish needs while discounting the importance of the other.

Self-bias 101.

Men are certainly biased towards attraction, and women are certainly biased towards relationship as you can see on this forum. 

But the reason why I am harping on relationship is because attraction by itself is not substantial enough to meet our deeper social and relationship needs. And that's true for both men and women.

For most people, a life of mutual masturbation will eventually turn stale and lose its charm. And it will likely give way to deep loneliness. 

Also, a man can't really satisfy a woman without deep levels intimacy.

This is also impossible without the woman sensing that she is special to him and not just interchangeable with other women. And for a man only geared towards attraction, women are 100% fungible. And that's just not gratifying or stable feeling to be with such a man... especially if you're looking for a father for your children.

This is something that men would be wise to know about the female bias, as deep connection with a man who only orients towards attraction is just not possible. And it's a big red flag that a great many women will filter men out for. 

So, for a man to purely stay within his biases around attraction basically guarantees that he will never really satisfy a woman. 

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Men are certainly biased towards attraction, and women are certainly biased towards relationship as you can see on this forum. 

But the reason why I am harping on relationship is because attraction by itself is not substantial enough to meet our deeper social and relationship needs. And that's true for both men and women.

For most people, a life of mutual masturbation will eventually turn stale and lose its charm. And it will likely give way to deep loneliness. 

Also, a man can't really satisfy a woman without deep levels intimacy.

This is also impossible without the woman sensing that she is special to him and not just interchangeable with other women. And for a man only geared towards attraction, women are 100% fungible. And that's just not gratifying or stable feeling to be with such a man... especially if you're looking for a father for your children.

This is something that men would be wise to know about the female bias, as deep connection with a man who only orients towards attraction is just not possible. And it's a big red flag that a great many women will filter men out for. 

So, for a man to purely stay within his biases around attraction basically guarantees that he will never really satisfy a woman. 

@Leo Gura needs to listen to this..

 

[jerrypua]

Ok guys, enough fun for today, it's time to go to bed 

[RendHeaven]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

As a man you gotta suck ass for a woman to leave you once she's in love with you.

Guess I suck ass then, lol.

I mean you've said it yourself countless times, neediness is to her as a dick in the mouth is to us. For a lot of us men, the focus on attraction goes hand in hand with getting rid of neediness.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

A woman's reproductive value is dropping every year.

You know I've never had to think of this as I'm in my early 20s.

I wonder if "older" women actually see their "reproductive value dropping every year" or if that's only visible to men your age

[John Iverson]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol. What are you smoking?

Women worry all the time about the guy leaving her for a hotter, younger girl.

As a man you gotta suck ass for a woman to leave you once she's in love with you. It's effortless to keep women. It's much harder to keep men. A woman's reproductive value is dropping every year. A man's value increases every year if he's doing personal development work.

In this respect, relationships are much either for men than women. The hardest part for the man is the attraction phase -- which is why men focus on it almost exclusively.

Indeed

One of my questions about survival agendas and survival of Men and Women answered in this manner, can you say more of these?

I wanna know more 

Why woman discount Men physical attraction to women? I always see in my tiktok fyp saying men are trash.. what can you say about that..

And some men won't agree and also discount the truth about physical attraction among men to women i see them as ignorant about their true nature.. and i don't know if i ever talk about this publicly they will cancelled me out or may be judge me as trash or as ignorant as they are, but i know when it comes to men we are really driven in our physical attraction to women it's our nature as men.. why some man don't agree in that

Basically when they said men are trash for example 10 men are walking in the street woman don't know who is the rapist or how many rapist in that 10 men so for them they rest the case of men are trash .. most men are not seeing their side, and i understand where women coming from, they don't know who to trust therefore men are trash,

But still i don't really understand them deeply enough

Edited March 9, 2021 by John Iverson

[Raphael]

Looks like everyone is horny in this sub-forum.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

There is quite a big difference between wanting big tits on a woman and a woman wanting masculine containment.

No there isn't. That is chief the self-deception and meta-self-bias at work here.

What you are talking about is survival value. And it comes in infinite flavors. One flavor of survival value is big tits. Another flavor of survival value is masculine containment or marriage or intimacy.

There is no reason whatsoever that intimacy is more important than big tits. If you think there is, that's because it's more important TO YOU.

To say that big tits are just as functional as little tits is to not see the situation holistically. What we are attracted to need not have any functional value per se. A giant peacock's tail is not functional. Also, little tits are not as functional when it comes to sticking your dick between them. So there are many facets to "functional" which you are reducing. Your definition of "functional" is already corrupted by your self-biases. If you were a man, you wound find big tits very functional. Just ask any man.

[soos_mite_ah]

@Leo Gura I think in situations like this it is crucial to mind the context of the situation and whether we are talking in the absolute sense or relative sense. In the absolute sense, survival is survival. But in the relative sense, there is a lot of degrees that need to be considered. I'm pretty sure you already know this. But some people on this forum will take that as a blanket statement and run with it without looking at context and nuance. That's my concern because that can lead to some nasty results for both men and women.