Some asked Eckhart "You became Enlightened by accident wtf do you know about it?"

[Phyllis Wagner]

So someone actually asked him this, what do you guys think about the answer?

@Leo Gura this is basically your main point of criticism about him - right?

Edited March 6, 2021 by Phyllis Wagner

[BipolarGrowth]

I really don’t consider him enlightened. He’s got some good information/advice that can be quite helpful though. 

[Phyllis Wagner]

10 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

I really don’t consider him enlightened. He’s got some good information/advice that can be quite helpful though. 

Well I disagree, I am following actualized.org for 5+ years and I still get mind-blowing insights from time to time when I read his books that just didn't compute with my previous understanding. if he is truly enlightened or not - I don't care honestly. 

I think he is underrated here because his popularity somewhat cheapens his teachings. Granted, It's formulated in very accessible language, but I think that is also the appeal of actualized.org.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Phyllis Wagner

[Leo Gura]

The vast majority of spiritual teachers are coasting on innate spiritual talent that they were born with thanks to the right genetics and so forth. Of course they never tell their students this because it undermines the grift.

I don't really have any problem with Tolle. I just find his teachings too weak-sauce and bland. But if you like it, doesn't bother me. There are many different styles of spiritual teaching and they will not all appeal to everyone.

If Tolle's teachings really worked then millions of people would be enlightened. And of course that's not the case.

[AtheisticNonduality]

Quote

And Eckhart made it pretty clear in his book, The Power of Now, that he had a spontaneous awakening to this super-conscious state, to this timeless, present moment and so that’s part of why he can speak with a great deal of authority about the state itself, but what he doesn’t emphasize enough is that for most people, it really does take practice.

--Ken Wilber

[Phyllis Wagner]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The vast majority of spiritual teachers are coasting on innate spiritual talent that they were born with thanks to the right genetics and so forth. Of course they never tell their students this because it undermines the grift.

I don't really have any problem with Tolle. I just find his teachings too weak-sauce and bland.

I mean, I think he understands this. But everyone has got to start somewhere, most people are not ready to just go full-on monk mode. This is pure speculation but spiritual awakening might be a process that takes lifetimes. This inner desire to get serious and wanting to know - I totally get it - but maybe this can also be seen as part of the "right genetics", because to be honest - most people just don't have that drive.

[BipolarGrowth]

39 minutes ago, Phyllis Wagner said:

I mean, I think he understands this. But everyone has got to start somewhere, most people are not ready to just go full-on monk mode. This is pure speculation but spiritual awakening might be a process that takes lifetimes. This inner desire to get serious and wanting to know - I totally get it - but maybe this can also be seen as part of the "right genetics", because to be honest - most people just don't have that drive.

The Bhagavad Gita discusses this. 
 

TEXT 37:

Arjuna said: O Kṛṣṇa, what is the destination of the unsuccessful transcendentalist, who in the beginning takes to the process of self-realization with faith but who later desists due to worldly-mindedness and thus does not attain perfection in mysticism?

TEXT 38:

O mighty-armed Kṛṣṇa, does not such a man, who is bewildered from the path of transcendence, fall away from both spiritual and material success and perish like a riven cloud, with no position in any sphere?

TEXT 39:

This is my doubt, O Kṛṣṇa, and I ask You to dispel it completely. But for You, no one is to be found who can destroy this doubt.

TEXT 40:

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Son of Pṛthā, a transcendentalist engaged in auspicious activities does not meet with destruction either in this world or in the spiritual world; one who does good, My friend, is never overcome by evil.

TEXT 41:

The unsuccessful yogī, after many, many years of enjoyment on the planets of the pious living entities, is born into a family of righteous people, or into a family of rich aristocracy.

TEXT 42:

Or [if unsuccessful after long practice of yoga] he takes his birth in a family of transcendentalists who are surely great in wisdom. Certainly, such a birth is rare in this world.

TEXT 43:

On taking such a birth, he revives the divine consciousness of his previous life, and he again tries to make further progress in order to achieve complete success, O son of Kuru.

TEXT 44:

By virtue of the divine consciousness of his previous life, he automatically becomes attracted to the yogic principles – even without seeking them. Such an inquisitive transcendentalist stands always above the ritualistic principles of the scriptures.

TEXT 45:

And when the yogī engages himself with sincere endeavor in making further progress, being washed of all contaminations, then ultimately, achieving perfection after many, many births of practice, he attains the supreme goal.

TEXT 46:

A yogī is greater than the ascetic, greater than the empiricist and greater than the fruitive worker. Therefore, O Arjuna, in all circumstances, be a yogī.

TEXT 47:

And of all yogīs, the one with great faith who always abides in Me, thinks of Me within himself and renders transcendental loving service to Me – he is the most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all. That is My opinion.

 

I’d say, if any of this is to be believed, it is quite likely most of us drawn to the form of spirituality here have spent previous lives in pursuance of Truth. 

[Leo Gura]

59 minutes ago, Phyllis Wagner said:

I mean, I think he understands this. But everyone has got to start somewhere, most people are not ready to just go full-on

This is why I generally don't like any mainstream teachings. The more mainstream they are, the shallower and more watered-down they must be.

There is an inverse correlation between depth and popularity.

[Phyllis Wagner]

@BipolarGrowth Thank you! very interesting!

 

@Leo Gura In a general sense I agree. However, Power of Now was published in 1997 and was relatively obscure, just because Oprah pushed it later didn't decrease the value of what was written. Also consider C.w.G. was a book that saw mainstream success.

I can actually see actualized.org being endorsed by some celebrity in the future, it wouldn't make the content itself any worse, wouldn't it? I think it's only a matter of time before that happens.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Phyllis Wagner

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Phyllis Wagner said:

 

@Leo Gura In a general sense I agree. However, Power of Now was published in 1997 and was relatively obscure, just because Oprah pushed it later didn't decrease the value of what was written.

Yeah, but if it appeals to Oprah's audience it must already be shallow stuff.

Quote

Also consider C.w.G. was a book that saw mainstream success.

Sometimes there are rare exceptions and gems.

I definitely has an anti-mainstream bias. Sometimes I backfires but I enjoy this particular bias. I has worked well for me overall.

Quote

I can actually see actualized.org being endorsed by some celebrity in the future, it wouldn't make the content itself any worse, wouldn't it? I think it's only a matter of time before that happens.

Actualized.org is too radical and offensive to be endorsed by anyone who wants to keep their job and status.

[PureRogueQ]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Actualized.org is too radical and offensive to be endorsed by anyone who wants to keep their job and status.

That is for sure!  

[Snader]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Actualized.org is too radical and offensive to be endorsed by anyone who wants to keep their job and status.

Unless you understand human development and are smart about how you go with it -- which of course is extremely rare today.

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Snader said:

Unless you understand human development and are smart

In other words, you hold no position of wealth, power, or status

[Twega]

@Leo Gura Do you consider yourself genetically gifted spiritually?

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Twega said:

@Leo Gura Do you consider yourself genetically gifted spiritually?

In certain narrow ways, yes.

I am exceptionally gifted with intuition and when my brain is combined with psychedelics. Neither of these things can really be taught. You either got it or you don't.

[Twega]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

There is an inverse correlation between depth and popularity.

 

[Twega]

@Leo Gura May I ask what are your "spiritual weaknesses"? so to speak.

[Someone here]

@Leo Gura .few questions please........

. How to define enlightenment such that you can say 'the person is and that person isn't enlightened' ? It's not like a scientific term that has a clear definition.. like an oxygen atom (an atom that contains exactly 8 protons)... You consider yourself enlightened because you are conscious of certain things and you judge other teachers as 'weak sauce' or not enlightened enough because they don't meet your criteria.... And I consider my own truths that I'm conscious of to be the highest and I do see others who can't get what I'm saying as idiots and so forth (just like you do)... So isn't there different degrees of enlightenment and they are all valid??... And who's to say what's the highest?... After all.. What good is telling people 'you are God and you are hallucinating the entire universe'.. People just wanna eliminate suffering and feel good... Isn't 'the highest enlightenment' itself relative? 

[Snader]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

In other words, you hold no position of wealth, power, or status

Yes, when it comes to embodying the extremes of the deepest teachings of Actualized.org.

But man you don't have to be a monk to endorse some of that stuff or the wisdom behind it.

 

 

[Tim R]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is why I generally don't like any mainstream teachings. The more mainstream they are, the shallower and more watered-down they must be.

There is an inverse correlation between depth and popularity.

Yeah but that's the way it has to be. Among the millions of followers and listeners, a few will lick blood and get to work and they'll dive deeper than the rest. 

Tolle's teachings are exactly perfect as they are, providing a smooth and rather easy entrance into spirituality. 

You can't tell people "oh ok you wanna get into spirituality? Cool, and btw; you're actually dead, reality is an illusion and your family ain't real."

See how many people will get into spirituality if it wasn't for guys like Tolle... So there really is no need to be particularly biased against mainstream teachers imo.