Is Joe Rogan Irresponsible?

[Twega]

Joe Rogan claimed that he started his podcast for fun and that he is a comedian and not someone to be taken seriously. I sympathize with that. Regardless of his intentions, he has become the number 1# Podcast show/host. That comes with a lot of responsibility that Joe does not want to take, or maybe even can't do it even if he wanted to. What are your thoughts?

Mine are: If I was in his place, there is no way in hell I would have some of the people he has on. What bugs me the most is the misinformation his guests spew, especially the pseudoscience on nutrition.

This Doc actually gives good arguments on why celebs should take responsibility for their huge influence and audience, and it isn't just the cliche arguments (like ure hurting people).

[Spence94]

I see your points. I love the old school podcasts where him Duncan and Redban are on the sofa getting stoned and drinking wine and letting their minds go into fairy land. From listening to 100s of hours of JRE over the years, this is the perception i have of how he thinks about it:

I think the podcast for him has always been about having and engaing with what he finds interesting, which is the way he lives his life. I think he has maintained the intention throughout despite how hugely popular and influential the show has become.

His main occupations are first a stand up comedian and then the UFC commentator, he loves martial arts and loves to hang out with his friends and have fun and go hunting. He takes DMT every year and sits in a float tank to stay present. He practices yoga and works out 7 times a week. He has a wife and 3 kids. He likes to get stoned with his buddies, write comedy and read books. The podcast is low on his priority list, its like an extension of his life and schedule, therefore he has kept that original intention about what the podcast is from day one.

A lot of people haven't watched enough of his podcast, seen the old ones, listened to his stand up comedy or watched UFC to know more about who he is, they  just see these famous people on his show and think hes like a tv news show host and thats all he does or some shit and he should be more resposnible and "shouldnt smoke weed on his show" lol.

Should he take more responsbility? i don't know. He doesn't want outside influence to effect the nature of podcasting. He doesn't want the podcast to be influenced by television or radio or news or politics, he want's the medium to remain a conversational dialogue like its always was in the beginning,  and he doesn't want it to consume his life. 

He knows how huge the show is, he has even expressed that he feels at this point in the podcasts history he is just the chosen one and that he is like an antena and the podcast is just happening through him so to speak ( Maybe influenced by his DMT use connecting him to the absolute.) If that is the case, then maybe he is taking responsibiity already...

Edited March 5, 2021 by Spence94

[Spence94]

11 minutes ago, datamonster said:

He's a complete douchebag imho. I really don't get why people follow him or even take him seriously.

He doesn't even say anything particularly intelligent or interesting. I suppose people simply get drawn to the celebs he brings on the show and think it must be good because of that.

This is the issue. He is just a random dude having conversations with people and putting it online. It seems that is hard for people to accept. He must be something else or he should behave in a certain way.

There is a huge illusion surrounding famous people with influence.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Spence94

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Twega said:

 

I could shoot exactly the same video in which I show how ineffective conventional western medicine is.

At least 50% of western medicine is bullshit that masquerades as "science".

[Twega]

@Leo Gura  Degrees of bullshit. Western Medicine is bullshit, a lot of alternative medicine is even more so. Especially like this example. If we are talking native knowledge on medicinal plants, yoga, acupuncture, then yes of course that is NOT bullshit. & If we are talking about certain practices in Western Medicine, they are also not bullshit.

It is like the pre-rational post-rational fallacy, many of these practices are pre-rational yet they are taken to be post-rational wisdom.

[Twega]

@Spence94 The illusion becomes reality though. The essence of this matter is: He is just a dude blabbering. Yet what are the consequence? People actually listen, regardless of whether it is illusory or not.

[Phyllis Wagner]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I could shoot exactly the same video in which I show how ineffective conventional western medicine is.

At least 50% of western medicine is bullshit that masquerades as "science".

But western medicine still got you a diagnosis after trying all the woo woo stuff, right?

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Phyllis Wagner said:

But western medicine still got you a diagnosis after trying all the woo woo stuff, right?

Only after I did it myself by leaving all the doctors behind. If I was listening to my conventional doctors I would be fucked.

And still, the diagnosis I got is very limited and partial and is not sufficient to give a clear picture of the root cause or how to cure it.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

If I was listening to my conventional doctors I would be fucked.

You should make a video only on this one line. 

This line will have the potential to save many many many lives. 

 

Wish I had the common sense to never listen to my conventional doctors. Because I got fucked big time. 

 

[Twega]

@Preety_India  @Leo Gura Medicine is in the dark ages. I think the best approach would be to Integrate all the various ideas, techniques, knowledge, science technology of various Health-related schools of thought. To synthesize them all together in one framework. I believe chemistry, biochemistry, and nutrition has really shed a light on what is healthy and what is not.  The issue with conventional doctors isn't that they are too scientific, it is that they are not scientific enough! They are dogmatic, limited, and beurocratic.

[Spence94]

@Twega By the same token, any projection a person had on someone else would give them a perception that would influence their reality. Not everybody draws the same conclusions and derives the same perception of the illusion. It's relative.

If you watch Joe Rogan, over the years, he changed a lot, he is a very different person with a  very different mind and way of seeing things than he was 10 years ago. Just like if you watch Leo from 7 years back, he seems almost like a different human being. They both seem like people who took self responsibility to me and were concious of the consequences of their words and thinking, whilst being detached from the results of their actions. 

"My karma is to deliver this teaching to you. If you understand this teaching or not, isn't my karma. If I become attached to wether or not you understand this teaching, then it becomes my karma." -Ram Dass

Edited March 5, 2021 by Spence94

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, datamonster said:

@Leo Gura Ofc Western medicine is sometimes ineffective or even counterproductive, but that's just because medicine is extremely complex and difficult.

It's not just because of that. The problem is deeper. The problem is the closedminded, materialistic, non-holistic way what western medicine approaches health.

If you watched this week's episode on Holism, you'd know what health is actually impossible without holism.

Quote

But you get at least double the amount of BS with alternative medicine.

It isn't so clear which is more full of shit. They are both full of shit in their unique ways. When you get a serious illness you'll gain a new appreciation for how full of shit western doctors tend to be.

Quote

I'd like to see some faith healer perform an open heart surgery.

And I'd like to see an open heart surgeon heal someone's depression or auto-immunity.

[Twega]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

f you watched this week's episode on Holism, you'd know what health is actually impossible without holism.

Materiality (Right Quadrant) is still a part/whole, which is what AlternativeMedicine is completely ignorant about, so it too, will never be holistic.

 

[Delis]

Western medicine is most probably incapable of solving the problems that are related to the complex interactions that brain and gut. It is known that most modern health problems such as autoimmune, mental, cardiovascular, Alzheimer's etc. have a very strong correlation with alterations in persons gut microbiome and it seems that in a way gut microbiome communicates with the brain via vagus nerve and there has even been studies that showed that there can these microbes can be in the brain although this is unconfirmed. In addition, majority of happy hormones, such as serotonin, are produced in the gut. Clearly human body and mind should be treated as an ecosystem as one's mood and even majority of one's thoughts might be heavily influenced by the complex interactions between gut and brain.

What western medicine does, it takes one problem and ignores all the rest. For example, I have IBD and have had severe upper GI problems for several years. The doctors just tell me to eat antacids and take no responsibility if those antacids make feel worse (as they have made). This is also backed up by several studies that show that long term antacid use is harmful and makes your lower GI track more vulnerable to infections. That's why I abandoned antacids and in fact also other IBD medicines and have tried to manage my symptoms with diet and supplements. But in my experience, diets and supplements rarely fully resolve gut problems and a more holistic approach would probably include approaches such as Fecal microbiota transplants, removing heavy metals and toxins, spiritual work and therapy and other things that western medicine is incapable of grasping.

[Thought Art]

3 hours ago, Twega said:

Joe Rogan claimed that he started his podcast for fun and that he is a comedian and not someone to be taken seriously. I sympathize with that. Regardless of his intentions, he has become the number 1# Podcast show/host. That comes with a lot of responsibility that Joe does not want to take, or maybe even can't do it even if he wanted to. What are your thoughts?

Mine are: If I was in his place, there is no way in hell I would have some of the people he has on. What bugs me the most is the misinformation his guests spew, especially the pseudoscience on nutrition.

This Doc actually gives good arguments on why celebs should take responsibility for their huge influence and audience, and it isn't just the cliche arguments (like ure hurting people).

Western medicine doesn't even acknowledge Qi which is the focus of cupping. So obviously he isn't going to acknowledge it. Are the bruises placebo too? Or did he leave that out.

imagine someone doing something and getting a direct result and a doctor is like "Well actually studies show there fore" its like... Okay, but why not include my direct feedback into your study?

Just because something isn't quantifiable doesn't mean it is placebo either. It 'may' be placebo but you have to investigate. Not having quantifiable evidence doesn't mean there is not evidence, nor no quantifiable evidence. Maybe you don't have the right lens yet.

I am part of an online Qigong community and there are 10's if not 100's of people claiming to be healing ailments they were told would never be healed by Western 'Modern' Medicine.

He shares his concerns about people being mislead, but fails to see his own blind spots that come from being part of the western medical paradigm.

Western medicine has its strengths and weaknesses, so does Traditional Chinese medicine. What makes me upset is that on wikipedia they call cupping, acupuncture and even Qigong 'Quackery' even though Qigong is doing wonders for my mental health and clarity and by simply trying the practice is blatantly obvious it's no 'quackery'. 

Who gives the person who writes the wikipedia pages authority? Also, they even include that 'cupping is often confused for child abuse'... Okay, fuck you and your bias. 

Is it really this bad in the world that our paradigms block us from seeing things that obviously work? Or obviously don't work? This is a real complicated mess. Working or not working is not a black and white thing. The human body is a complex phenomena, as is the enigma of reality as a whole. The modern western healing paradigm isn't as advanced as it should be as more and more evidence is showing that reality isn't even material. I think that a lot of material science and medicine has its place, but also a lot of it isn't.

Just because you spend years studying something doesn't mean it is true. That goes for western and eastern medicine. 

He also talked about the straw man argument and how it was bad, but then he proceeded to do a strawman argument. 

More and more I am learning that there is a real balance of listening to others but not taking anyones 'expertise' seriously. 

This doctor also lumps a bunch of practices together and says 'all alternative methods like this' don't work. I think that is false, and it depends on the application of what you are trying to treat. Like, obviously you need the right treatment for the right problem. It's also sad because of the massive amount of problems that western medicine paradigm creates, and then has to try to treat. Silly games silly games.

The rock and Michael phelps did nothing wrong if they tried a treatment like cupping, found it allowed the Qi to move more freely in the body and felt better. Qi is not placebo, but the placebo effect, or intention is part of the skill in directing Qi... Mind body connection.

I have not tried cupping, but would like to to gain direct experience before I talk about it more.

Western medicine needs to include mindful awareness and feeling if it wants to advance imo. As well as a deep profound holism. a little to yang in his left ear

Edited March 5, 2021 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Twega said:

Materiality (Right Quadrant) is still a part/whole, which is what AlternativeMedicine is completely ignorant about, so it too, will never be holistic.

You have an unholistic view of holistic medicine.

True holism does not exclude the material solutions.

2 hours ago, datamonster said:

Different problems require different approaches.

I was pointing out the double standards and bias of your example.

Quote

A heart surgeon doesn't intend to heal someone's depression. Nevertheless, if you need a bypass surgery you better find a good heart surgeon, not a faith healer.

It is silly that you strawman holistic healthcare as "a faith healer". That would be like me strawmanning a hospital as a money-hungry capitalist scheme.

Quote

Holism is not always the best lense.

Sometimes you have very specific issues that need to be dealt with in very specific ways. This is where western medicine excels.

Your notion of holism is, ironically, unholistic.

True holism would not exclude the good parts of western medicine.

[Hansu]

5 hours ago, Twega said:

This Doc actually gives good arguments on why celebs should take responsibility for their huge influence and audience, and it isn't just the cliche arguments (like ure hurting people).

I dont know if schools teach media literacy where you come from, but its about taking responsibility to confirm whether something you hear on media is legit or not.

To me it sounds like the root problem goes deeper than just having people discussing freely. General stupidity cant be cured by Joe Rogan censoring himself or his guests.

[DocWatts]

32 minutes ago, Hansu said:

I dont know if schools teach media literacy where you come from, but its about taking responsibility to confirm whether something you hear on media is legit or not.

To me it sounds like the root problem goes deeper than just having people discussing freely. General stupidity cant be cured by Joe Rogan censoring himself or his guests.

As an American I can confirm that our dysfunctional education system over here does not teach media literacy, and as a Culture it's something that the majority of the populace is deeply ignorant about. No one teaches you any of this unless you go out of your way to seek it out.

So I'm not sure that it's fair to shift the burden of responsibility here on to ordinary people, when society hasn't given them the tools to discern truth from falsehood, how to tell if an information source is biased, etc.

A lot of, well let's call them Epistemologically Challenged and Media Illiterate people over here. That being the case, it makes more sense to me to hold people with millions of followers who spread disinformation accountable  rather than victim blaming epistemologically and media illiterate people.

[Thought Art]

Just now, datamonster said:

 

You're touchy, Leo, jeez..

It's a good comparison

[Striving for more]

5 hours ago, datamonster said:

He's a complete douchebag imho. I really don't get why people follow him or even take him seriously.

He doesn't even say anything particularly intelligent or interesting. I suppose people simply get drawn to the celebs he brings on the show and think it must be good because of that.

@datamonster If he's a "complete douchebag" then 99.999999% of are even bigger douchebags. 

Where do you get that opinion from? 

He's open minded, hilarious, entertaining, & endorses positive values which have helped me. 

I don't worship him or think he's a genius ... but He's a better, more charismatic person that 99.9999% of people I tend to meet, see.

He's done a great thing with his podcasts, had some really interesting guests covering a wide variety of topics that have spread awareness, opened my mind to stuff I didn't know existed & is arguably the best podcaster/interview in the planet due to a mix of his conversation style & charisma. 

 

I also love how you use the deductive term "complete douchebag", completely ignoring all his good qualities & actions. 

Even if he isn't some super smart genius, he is at least a funny, entertaining charismatic guy who's cool to listen to sometimes when you just want to drift off in the evening. It's refreshing to have people like that. The kind of guy I would enjoy you'd hanging out with.