Masculinity - Femininity

[Zizzero]

Had an interesting discussion with someone about the subject of masculinity and femininity and differences between the genders. I'd like to unpack some of the following questions with you. Curious to hear your thoughts and inputs

• What are masculinity and femininity? How would you describe and explain it? And I don't mean its content, like "femininity means yin" etc. I mean: Are we talking about energies? If yes; what is an energy? Is it instead merely a tool to categorize the world into two to help us understand it, but there actually is no such thing as femininity?
• Are masculinity and femininity social constructs that don't describe anything deeper than "masculinity = more prevalent among human males"? 
• Tell me about the following whether you would call them feminine, masculine or neither. And ideally a reason why

1. Being
2. Doing
3. Beauty
4. Ambition
5. Reason/rationality/logic
6. Emotions
7. Anger
8. Autism
9. Mathematics
10. Muscles
11. Drinking beer
12. The color pink
13. Dancing

• What is the connection between masculinity and the male sex and femininity and the female sex? "Men are more masculine" - what does that mean, exactly and why is that?
• What is the connection between being male and "being a man"? For example: Leo has two very good videos on his channel named "How To Be A Man" - Are the lessons in this video more important for males? Why? 
• Should every man learn "how to be a man"? Should only men who feel more masculine than feminine learn "how to be a man" or would these men get more out of a "how to be a woman" video? - again goes towards the question above; why it seems especially important for men to embody masculine virtues and vise versa
• Is a heterosexual relationship healthier or more fulfilling when the man is more in his masculinity and the woman in her femininity? Like, him being the leader and her admiring him. Or is it better when the relationship is more equal and there is no masculine-feminine-dynamic going on? Does it even matter?
• What is the difference between a man and a woman beyond sex characteristics?

No wrong answers here. Feel free to write whatever comes to mind

[Forestluv]

Analysis, intellectualization and construct control is masculine. One cannot deeply understand feminine through masculine analysis and control. Deeper understanding comes from surrendering masculine control and entering realms of feminine. 

Being in a masculine realm and trying to define what feminine realms are is very different than actually experiencing and knowing feminine realms and then trying to articulate it. Masculine and feminine realms are very different ways of relating to reality. Ultimately, the two are inter-connected as one, yet one will not realize this without venturing outside their baseline realm. 

[Flyboy]

So, I think there is something sort of inherently sexual about the dualism of form.  The first division from 1 is into 2.  This "primal divide" sort of seems to be at the heart of duality, and layering generalized concepts onto some of its aspects is what I would consider the nature of "masculine and feminine".  It is ultimately conceptual, but the lense provides greater understanding than not having the lense.

Is it "ultimately" true?  No, in the same way that neither is Spiral Dynamics, or holons, or any other conceptual lense.  But it helps you see an aspect of reality that is hard to see without it, so I think the concepts are useful when well-understood and applied within this context.  With sufficient resolution, it all just becomes FLOW, or what IS.

[Nahm]

It’s in the design of your creation. One appears as two experienced as one, one intuitively desires to make two, one... and here you are.

[Spence94]

9 hours ago, Zizzero said:

What are masculinity and femininity? How would you describe and explain it? And I don't mean its content, like "femininity means yin" etc. I mean: Are we talking about energies? If yes; what is an energy? Is it instead merely a tool to categorize the world into two to help us understand it, but there actually is no such thing as femininity?

Layers of depth in everything. Layers of conciousness. Of course on one level, its just vocabulary and grammar. On another, they are labels we have given to the sexes and the dynamic between the two in our society and culture. How deeply does one really realise the concept of yin and yang? Do you have an existential experiential understanding of Yin and Yang as the yogis and daoists claim to be possible? Whatever the level of ones experience and understanding in the given area allows them use see their own truth of the matter.

Ultimatley they are all just labels. How far ones takes their understanding is a different matter. If one reaches a point where they energetically experience the energies of yin and yang and these energies interplay and effect how they relate to themselves and to other people then perhaps they have discovered a truth of masculinity and femininity, at least on a relative level. However the map is not the territory. Maybe there is no such thing as femininity, but the maps of feminine and masculine energy laid out by the yogis and daoists, point the direction towards an experience of something that is at play in the world that is divided into two elements but is utimatley one thing. Yin and Yang.

How deeply one realizes the truth of the daoist teachings of Yin and Yang will come down to the strength, will and seeking of the practitioner.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Spence94

[roopepa]

14 hours ago, Zizzero said:

Masculine & feminine ain't got nothing to do with men and women per se. You can be masculine woman or a feminine man, or 50/50.

1. Being: Feminine. Unconditionality
2. Doing: Masculine. As in opposed with being and unconditionality.
3. Beauty: Feminine. Beauty is Being.
4. Ambition: Masculine. This is one of the energies that fuels doing.
5. Reason/rationality/logic: Masculine, as in opposed with being which is emotion
6. Emotions: Feminine, unconditionality, Being, Love
7. Anger: Feminine, emotion
8. Autism: What
9. Mathematics: Same as reason/rationality/logic
10. Muscles: Depends how you look at it. Masculine if seen as activating property for doing stuff, or feminine if seen as a beauty standard.
11. Drinking beer: Drinking beer is masculine, as beer itself is feminine. The masculine looks for communion with the feminine through intoxication.
12. The color pink: Feminine, being. I would say this about any colour. We see the colour pink as more girly due to culture though.
13. Dancing: Feminine, as dancing and all self-expression is a free flow of unconditionality, beauty and being. Not really 'doing'.

 

[Preety_India]

Masculine is more about control. 

Feminine is more about expression 

Interesting how that will work out. It doesn't really. 

 

[zeroISinfinity]

Maximum Masculinity. More of it the better. 

[mandyjw]

When you try to separate qualities like that, it all completely falls apart. One inherently creates and defines the other. 

For some reason though, notions of masculine and feminine are very tied with our allowance of our own authenticity. It can be helpful to think in terms of them to consider how we may be avoiding or afraid of being able to express ourselves authentically in the moment. Ultimately this means dropping our definitions. 

8 hours ago, Flyboy said:

So, I think there is something sort of inherently sexual about the dualism of form.  The first division from 1 is into 2.  This "primal divide" sort of seems to be at the heart of duality, and layering generalized concepts onto some of its aspects is what I would consider the nature of "masculine and feminine".  It is ultimately conceptual, but the lense provides greater understanding than not having the lense.

Wish I had the book here so I could quote it properly, but I loaned it out. Anyway, in "Mister God, This is Anna" Anna contemplates gender by taking a piece of latex from a broken balloon, sticking her finger in it so it looks like a penis, then flipping it around and showing how just one single action creates both male/female simultaneously. It's the same with any duality, when you separate or define, you create the included and excluded, the positive space and negative space, in one single action. The defining line is your creation, it's also where and how we're conceived, and how we conceive of ourselves. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by mandyjw

[Gesundheit]

@Emerald might have something to say here.

[Zizzero]

Love your inputs so far. Good insights 

[zeroISinfinity]

10 hours ago, Nahm said:

It’s in the design of your creation. One appears as two experienced as one, one intuitively desires to make two, one... and here you are.

✔️

2 hours ago, mandyjw said:

When you try to separate qualities like that, it all completely falls apart. One inherently creates and defines the other. 

For some reason though, notions of masculine and feminine are very tied with our allowance of our own authenticity. It can be helpful to think in terms of them to consider how we may be avoiding or afraid of being able to express ourselves authentically in the moment. Ultimately this means dropping our definitions. 

Wish I had the book here so I could quote it properly, but I loaned it out. Anyway, in "Mister God, This is Anna" Anna contemplates gender by taking a piece of latex from a broken balloon, sticking her finger in it so it looks like a penis, then flipping it around and showing how just one single action creates both male/female simultaneously. It's the same with any duality, when you separate or define, you create the included and excluded, the positive space and negative space, in one single action. The defining line is your creation, it's also where and how we're conceived, and how we conceive of ourselves. 

@mandyjw

 

[LastThursday]

19 hours ago, Zizzero said:

What is the difference between a man and a woman beyond sex characteristics?

A lot of the differences are not actually biological or innate, but cultural. Men and women attach themselves to different sub-cultures. One of the main differences being appearance: long hair versus short, makeup versus no makeup, tight clothing versus loose clothing and so on. 

Some of the gender sub-culture may be influenced by sex characteristics, such as body shape and clothing, or facial hair, but it's less than you think.

Edited March 5, 2021 by LastThursday

[Emerald]

21 hours ago, Zizzero said:

 

1. Being - Esoterically Feminine
2. Doing - Esoterically Masculine
3. Beauty - Esoterically Feminine
4. Ambition - Esoterically Masculine
5. Reason/rationality/logic - Esoterically Masculine
6. Emotions - Esoterically Feminine
7. Anger - Culturally Masculine
8. Autism - Neither
9. Mathematics - Esoterically Masculine
10. Muscles - Biologically Masculine
11. Drinking beer - Culturally Masculine
12. The color pink - Culturally Feminine
13. Dancing - Culturally Feminine/ Esoterically Masculine

 

[soos_mite_ah]

I agree with everything @Emerald said

My only differentiation is for muscles. I feel that muscles on the upper body is more biologically masculine while muscles on the lower body is more  biologically feminine. 

And for things that are culturally masculine or feminine, those often change between time periods and from culture to culture. For the longest time, pink was considered a boys color and all babies wore dresses regardless of gender because of convenience. 

[LastThursday]

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

Anger - Culturally Masculine

Anger or more specifically agression would be biological and related to testosterone levels - but has been culturally appropriated.

[Surfingthewave]

@Zizzero Masculinity and feminity are cultural and social concepts. 

Gender differences have been influenced and shaped by hundreds of years of social conditioning. 

There are no masculine and feminine traits. It's all in the mind. 

In relationships, men shouldn't have to "live up" to societal expectations of what a man should be, neither should women, as it's all constructed, therefore illusory. 

Fear and upholding beliefs are behind a lot of the statements. And what really are beliefs?  Bring awareness to why you are discussing what you are discussing. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Surfingthewave