Why not just do DMT?

[freejoy]

Why do any practices and do only DMT?

What would happen if you gave 5 meo-Dmt to someone who wasn't seeking Enlightenment?

Many Enlightened teachers say not to use drugs.

[JosephKnecht]

21 minutes ago, freejoy said:

Why do any practices and do only DMT?

DMT removes the clouds temporarily so that you can see the Light of the Sun.

To see the Light permanently, you must move the clouds yourself through practice. 

23 minutes ago, freejoy said:

What would happen if you gave 5 meo-Dmt to someone who wasn't seeking Enlightenment?

They will experience content without context. The interpretation of the experience comes after the experience, and if their interpretation is not placed in the right context, they will wonder what happened. 

27 minutes ago, freejoy said:

Many Enlightened teachers say not to use drugs.

Every spoken word is false. Find out for yourself what is True. 

[Tim R]

34 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

Every spoken word is false.

@JosephKnecht What about this one then?

[freejoy]

32 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

DMT removes the clouds temporarily so that you can see the Light of the Sun.

To see the Light permanently, you must move the clouds yourself through practice. 

@JosephKnecht The way I understand it is that one just needs to keep doing it over and over. One time you get a glimps with repeated doses one gets permanent Enlightenment.

 

36 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

They will experience content without context. The interpretation of the experience comes after the experience, and if their interpretation is not placed in the right context, they will wonder what happened. 

@JosephKnecht Okay

36 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

Every spoken word is false. Find out for yourself what is True. 

@JosephKnecht Well there's a lot of false information on this forum then. : )

[freejoy]

You think the insect aliens with eat me? :  )

[Bodhitree]

As I understand it, psychedelics allow you to free yourself from the layers of belief that you have built up. The hallucinations seem to take a cue from your state of mind, set-and-setting, and so can either lead you to truth or falsehood. That is why integrating what you experience during a trip can take a long time. It affects the mind, so it takes time to settle, and then what you remember needs to be given a place. 
 

But I am not an expert on psychedelics. 

[Moksha]

24 minutes ago, freejoy said:

The way I understand it is that one just needs to keep doing it over and over. One time you get a glimps with repeated doses one gets permanent Enlightenment.

It's not about glimpsing over and over. It's about integrating your realizations into your life, and actually deconditioning your mind. Until you stop trusting your mind, and clinging to attachments, you will not be truly free. All relatively speaking, of course. 

[allislove]

@freejoy

Metaphorically... the screen plays a movie. A movie character takes psychedelic, so the movie plot changes drastically while the movie character high. You are the whole movie & the screen simultaneously. Does psychedelic help the screen to realize itself, that it's not just a movie character? Perhaps, the drastic movie plot changes is helpful for dis-identifying yourself with the movie character, the danger arises if the screen misinterpret yourself as the radical movie plot. There is only screen, this.

[Consilience]

Everything said above is solid. The problem is you can’t expect to participate in survival in an enduring DMT psychedelic state. At some point, you’re going to have to return to the mundane, sober, grounded state of mind. How does one embody, integrate, nurture, and facilitate the flourishing of these massive awakenings on psychedelics though? Through training the sober mind. Your mind is the mechanism preventing the lived embodiment of enlightenment. Repeated blasting off into the psychedelics is an inefficient, energetically demanding approach to this work. It’s also fueled by ego; the egoic desire for a never ending buffet for awakening experiences. The deception is that because these awakenings are oriented in the context of the pursuit of truth, the ego VERY easily can justify this constant gorging of psychedelic use. 

Yet if you combine these types of explorations with a rigorous sober practice, you’re pretty much guaranteed to awaken.

The nervous system is trained in the same way a gardener gardens. With patience, diligence, persistence, and care. Imagine if a gardener’s approach to gardening was to just constantly plant new flowers once the current set of flowers die. Lol. A master gardener knows how to nurture and grow what is already there. They know how to let the garden grow on its own, in its own time, within the context of the supporting principles listed above. 

Give yourself the space to let these insights blossom into your everyday, lived experience. Aka practice. Meditation, self inquiry, kriya any and all are great. Keep using psychedelics, but find that which transcends all psychedelic states, all sober states, and literally all form. 

[The0Self]

5-MeO-DMT is helpful only insofar as it helps you to live a conscious, wise, loving, and soulful life. Doing DMT without practices would arguably mean "it didn't work for you."

[freejoy]

My last teacher like teaching the 112 sutras of Vijñāna Bhairava Tantra.

He said there was nothing more added except the Headless Way.

I guess he didn't know about DMT!

He had me meditate 10 hours a day and a bunch of other stuff.

I had a quick out of body experience working with him and during one of the meditations felt this presence in the room, felt like God. He said that was me.

I understand having to understand the experience afterwards. But with the sutras one doesn't need a formal meditation practice. I see it kind of like prayer, it's not the same when you pray when you feel like it and doing it as a practice.

Thanks for the replies. It has added some clarity but for some reason I'm not jumping up and down thanking my good fortune for the discovery. I hesitate.

The ancient Masters were profound and subtle.
Their wisdom was unfathomable.
There is no way to describe it;
all we can describe is their appearance.

They were careful
as someone crossing an iced-over stream.
Alert as a warrior in enemy territory.
Courteous as a guest.
Fluid as melting ice.
Shapeable as a block of wood.
Receptive as a valley.
Clear as a glass of water.

Do you have the patience to wait
till your mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving
till the right action arises by itself?

The Master doesn't seek fulfillment.
Not seeking, not expecting,
she is present, and can welcome all things.

~The Tao Te Ching
by Lao Tzu

Translated by Stephen Mitchell

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by freejoy

[Consilience]

18 minutes ago, freejoy said:

The ancient Masters were profound and subtle.
Their wisdom was unfathomable.
There is no way to describe it;
all we can describe is their appearance.

They were careful
as someone crossing an iced-over stream.
Alert as a warrior in enemy territory.
Courteous as a guest.
Fluid as melting ice.
Shapeable as a block of wood.
Receptive as a valley.
Clear as a glass of water.

Do you have the patience to wait
till your mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving
till the right action arises by itself?

The Master doesn't seek fulfillment.
Not seeking, not expecting,
she is present, and can welcome all things.

~The Tao Te Ching
by Lao Tzu

Chapter 15 of the Tao Te Ching.

That’s so interesting! I randomly stumbled into and was just reflecting on this exact passage last night haha. Weird synchronicities.

Tbh I doubt these masters this passage describes had any interest taking psychedelics. But who knows man.

 

23 minutes ago, freejoy said:

I see it kind of like prayer, it's not the same when you pray when you feel like it and doing it as a practice.

I see this pov. For myself, making meditation a “practice” has a relentlessness towards becoming disinterested in the mind and ego. When “I don’t feel like meditating” this is the perfect opportunity to notice the illusory nature of self, suffering, craving, and practice anyways. However Ive never done 10 hours of practice/day besides on a meditation retreat. I may feel different after that level of commitment. 

[Flyboy]

Also I don't think you'll get much "enlightenment" out of DMT anyway (unless you've already done a ton of meditation and are focused intently in that direction).  It is not auto-enlightenment, like 5-MeO.

However, it will smash your scientific paradigm, so it's very useful that respect.

[Bodhitree]

I would recommend getting a thorough grounding in drugs before trying a psychedelic. Listen to at least 30 hours of Terence McKenna on YouTube, then you will have some idea of what you’re getting yourself into. 

[JosephKnecht]

4 hours ago, Tim R said:

@JosephKnecht What about this one then?

Those words were spoken, not written. But they are also false. 

[JosephKnecht]

4 hours ago, freejoy said:

@JosephKnecht The way I understand it is that one just needs to keep doing it over and over. One time you get a glimps with repeated doses one gets permanent Enlightenment.

It is unlikely to stabilize your level of consciousness just from psychedelics. You have to do THE WORK.

Ram Das together with Timothy Leary tried to get enlightened through psychedelics for years. But it didn't work for them because essentially psychedelics try to tell you that the power is within. If you keep taking them and never learn this lesson, you will be missing the point of psychedelics. 

5 hours ago, freejoy said:

@JosephKnecht Well there's a lot of false information on this forum then. : )

It is all false information in the end. But you are not at the end. You are more in the beginning  

When you get to the end, forget everything you know. 

[Carl-Richard]

Reductionism vs. holism.

[Spence94]

I've met quite a few spiritual folk who have done many psychedelics but have no daily practice of meditation/ yoga etc. I always felt like they were missing a piece of the puzzle.

Grounding. Integration. Observation. Commitment to the process.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Spence94

[freejoy]

16 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

It is unlikely to stabilize your level of consciousness just from psychedelics. You have to do THE WORK.

Ram Das together with Timothy Leary tried to get enlightened through psychedelics for years. But it didn't work for them because essentially psychedelics try to tell you that the power is within. If you keep taking them and never learn this lesson, you will be missing the point of psychedelics. 

I don't mind doing the work if the outcome is a high probability of success. Doing work with questionable outcome, for me is hard to get motivated. 

You know Dr David Hawkins , who I use to study A LOT use to say, "many meditators, few Enlightened"  

 

16 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

It is all false information in the end. But you are not at the end. You are more in the beginning  

When you get to the end, forget everything you know. 

Yes, after all these years I still feel like a beginner.  

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, freejoy said:

I don't mind doing the work if the outcome is a high probability of success. Doing work with questionable outcome, for me is hard to get motivated. 

This is why most people never get there. If you truly want it, you'll do whatever it takes.