Existential conundrum: Why live a "good" life? Why strive for goodness?

[Sahi96]

Hello all

I do hope everyone is doing well given the current state of the world. I will not delve much into myself but rather will briefly ask a philosophical question that I am having difficulties reconciling. Some perspective would be much appreciated.

If being and all of existence (in this universe and the next, and all that ever was) is a perfect balance between good and evil, bliss and suffering by its very nature (assuming it is the result of all possibility), what incentive is there to live a good life, if, by deterministic forces, good deeds will be counterbalanced by bad deeds? Why not live a reckless drug and sex filled life and drive a car off a cliff, if all of being and existence will balance this force out? Why strive to live a good life in this life (just for the sake, that it feels good and/or to counteract evil) if the nature of reality and existence is balance? Why love if love will be followed by hate - and vice versa? I apologies for this extreme case, but I am trying to reconcile this Buddhist notion of enlightenment and "breaking the cycle of rebirth" and that suffering can be overcome through reaching nirvana. Why overcome it through nirvana when it will inevitably balance itself out in one form or another? Is existence biased towards goodness? Is there a solid argument for this?

I ask this as, I have in the past found solace and peace of mind in the idea that my life and aspirations were somehow in tune with some cosmic sense of justice. I am a naturally helpful and productive person, and although I do struggle with things such as sexual and material desire, I consider things like monogamy as meaningful sacrifices, in the pursuit of a meaningful and fulfilling life, and that through my actions I contribute to preserved peace and order.

Any perspective on this would be much appreciated.  
 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Sahi96
Adding an additional greeting

[BlackMaze]

Because there is a natural tendency to grow, love and blossom. This is the way we are born and then we just get lost in the lies causing all the suffering. That's just my view on this. 

[Sahi96]

11 minutes ago, BlackMaze said:

Because there is a natural tendency to grow, love and blossom. This is the way we are born and then we just get lost in the lies causing all the suffering. That's just my view on this. 

Thank you for your comment, and while I do agree with this in principle, it does not necessary tackle my core question. While I agree that there is a natural tendency to grow, love and blossom, in this universe at least, what about other possible universes where existence is defined by pain and suffering and where there is a natural tendency towards destruction, hatred and pain? Surely such universes or realities fall within the realm of "possible" and I would imagine, perhaps in equal proportion to lets say "growth and love oriented reality/universes"? 

I ask this, as my conundrum is about the cosmic perspective of being and existence. About the "oneness" of everything, both good and bad. This is not necessarily confined to what we perceive from this universe and everything from the big bang until the eventual heat death of the universe. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Sahi96
Made an addition

[LastThursday]

Is a lion evil for killing an antelope? Is a person good for keeping a pet? There's no absolute morality, it is an invention of our minds. What there is is communal agreement: killing another person is evil, and saving another person's life is good. 

People are strongly bound by their desire to be part of the group and going against agreed morals is extremely difficult. It is also hard to see that morality is completely relative. But, in the end we are absolutely free to do as we wish, including killing others. There is no karmic account being kept.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Sahi96 said:

good deeds will be counterbalanced by bad deeds?

You misunderstand. There are no bad deeds, no evil. Only Good and Love exists. Nothing else.

The point is to realize that so you cease being lost in delusions which create suffering.

If you enjoy suffering, by all means don't pursue Truth or Love, stay lost in your delusions. Most people go this road.

Since Good and Love are infinite and absolute, they cannot have any point outside themselves. It is stupidity to seek a point outside of the thing itself. The key is to recognize this and ground yourself in the thing itself.

[allislove]

@Sahi96

I appreciate the genuine questions. Any "why" question may be answered by "unconditional love" or "why not". Cause&effect is by-product of the belief "I am a separate entity"/"I will die/I was born"/"I need X, Y, Z". Focus inwards, investigate the direct experience, who claims to have some position/opinion. The end of suffering is realizing your true nature by emptying your cup so to speak. Let go of thinking, empty your cup.

[erik8lrl]

Your idea of good and bad, love and hate, is still dualistic and subjective. The life that you perceive as "good" it's just your own ideas of reality. The truth is, they are not separated. All good things lead to bad things in time, and all bad things lead to good things in time. In the absolute/God perspective, everything is love, including both the good and the bad. And the reason why it's all love is because it's all you. You are everything and God and existence itself. Yes, you will continue to move from separation to unity and from duality to non-duality on and on for eternity because it is all love. Imagine you created an infinitely entertaining video game. Why wouldn't you keep playing it? Once you gain direct experience of this truth, you will see how brilliant you are that designed this infinite loop of love.  

Edited March 4, 2021 by erik8lrl

[Armand]

Objective truth is bad and good do not exist... Subjective, hell yes!!! Both are valid to me in terms of how I go about living my life. 

[Sahi96]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You misunderstand. There are no bad deeds, no evil. Only Good and Love exists. Nothing else.

The point is to realize that so you cease being lost in delusions which create suffering.

If you enjoy suffering, by all means don't pursue Truth or Love, stay lost in your delusions. Most people go this road.

Since Good and Love are infinite and absolute, they cannot have any point outside themselves. It is stupidity to seek a point outside of the thing itself. The key is to recognize this and ground yourself in the thing itself.

Thank you for replying back. It was actually after watching your "something instead of nothing" video that has thrown me a bit deeper in my covid lockdown existential crisis rabbit hole. I must admit, I do not understand what you mean by "there are no bad deeds and no evil, and only love exists". How has the pursuit of truth brought you to this conclusion? I can surely think of examples that are both evil (e.g. conscious acts of betrayal, intentionally inflicting pain) and love (selfless sacrifice). 

Do you clarify this in depth in one of your videos because I do not understand the logical path you are following to come to this conclusion. I do not "enjoy" suffering, but my mind leads me to both pain and bliss when I am in the heights of my mania. 

Perhaps if I understood your reasoning here, I could make more sense of this when I am lost. Essentially, why is good and love infinite and absolute, but hatred and evil not? 

[LastThursday]

I'll jump in with the obligatory video offerings:

 

 

[UnbornTao]

Enlightened farts don’t suffer. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Arzola

[commie]

46 minutes ago, Sahi96 said:

Perhaps if I understood your reasoning here, I could make more sense of this when I am lost. Essentially, why is good and love infinite and absolute, but hatred and evil not?

It's not a reasoning. These are just words referring to nothing anyone can show you, and so what they mean is up to you. Yet people seem to agree about this matter.

Try to give your complicated notions and judgements a rest and see if you don't feel alive. Are you in some kind of cosmic balance between life and death? Obviously not. There are things that come and go and then there's being alive.

And you happen to strive for goodness. Why do you need a reason?

[Nahm]

Infinite goodness and infinite goodness does not make for an experience, exactly like you and you is still, you. Infinite goodness forgets that it is infinite goodness, by being reality. This is absolutely innocent, and experience can be no other way. This forgetting is the veil of the finite mind, or, believing thoughts, which is believing there is duality, but is not of the heart, of feeling, of sensation. Thoughts of hatred & evil feel as they do, because of your true nature of infinite goodness. But so far, you’re believing you’re a “person”, on “earth”, “where” there is “balance”. All just thoughts. 

[Sahi96]

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

Infinite goodness and infinite goodness does not make for an experience, exactly like you and you is still, you. Infinite goodness forgets that it is infinite goodness, by being reality. This is absolutely innocent, and experience can be no other way. This forgetting is the veil of the finite mind, or, believing thoughts, which is believing there is duality, but is not of the heart, of feeling, of sensation. Thoughts of hatred & evil feel as they do, because of your true nature of infinite goodness. But so far, you’re believing you’re a “person”, on “earth”, “where” there is “balance”. All just thoughts. 

Thank you for this reply, I must admit I read this this morning and didn't think much of it, but opened it up again late afternoon and it made a lot more sense to me. It is something that resonates with me and certainly an idea that I can tackle with for a while, but naturally my inner critic / superego still tries to rationalise this from the perspective of my Christian upbringing / inherent fear of hell. A part of me feels it is wrong to question our basic psyche and feels that attempts at doing so are "as the bible would say" the business of false prophets to make us deny God or as well "to make ourselves Gods". 

I have a lot to think about. 

[Sahi96]

Also just a general feedback, although I do not know if I completely agree with Leo's idea's (yet ;)) I do appreciate the activeness and engagement of the people on this forum. It is rare to find opportunities to express elaborate concerns and to as well receive full attention (even from Leo himself) in working through them. Thank you.

[Tim R]

Every time Nahm replies, I feel that I don't understand sh*t... so much to learn... almost discouraging. But only almost

@Nahm So as far as I could make it out, "feeling" is the ultimate guidance, yes? Feeling will guide you towards your true nature, as long as you have an allowing relationship to them? 

[allislove]

2 hours ago, Tim R said:

Every time Nahm replies, I feel that I don't understand sh*t... so much to learn... almost discouraging. But only almost

Can relate to it, when I joined the forum in 2018, that was a usual reaction. Now every message feels like *home* 

[Nahm]

10 hours ago, Sahi96 said:

naturally my inner critic / superego still tries to rationalise this from the perspective of my Christian upbringing / inherent fear of hell.

These are beliefs which mask feeling. It feels off to you because it is. If the “fear of hell” were inherent, it’d feel delightful. Notice how ‘hell’ is a catch all for what people didn’t understand or know, and feared...fear, death, the devil, suffering, eternity, fire,etc. Pretty much to be expected in forgetting the true nature & experiencing through twoness-goggles. 

Quote

A part of me feels it is wrong to question our basic psyche and feels that attempts at doing so are "as the bible would say" the business of false prophets to make us deny God or as well "to make ourselves Gods". 

It’s neither. The guidance of feeling is not a prophet, and makes you nothing. 

Quote

I have a lot to think about. 

If you say so. 

9 hours ago, Tim R said:

So as far as I could make it out, "feeling" is the ultimate guidance, yes? Feeling will guide you towards your true nature, as long as you have an allowing relationship to them? 

The only guidance & already is the true nature, and ‘not them’. ?

 

@allislove

[zeroISinfinity]

@Tim RI feel what is @Nahmtrying to point to but trust me I scratch my head all the time trying to understand. 

Have to read 3 times to really get it sometimes. Like I am studying  in faculty/college once again. 

Was lousy student no worries but considered talented by all my professors. Laziness. 

[Forestluv]

15 hours ago, Sahi96 said:

If being and all of existence (in this universe and the next, and all that ever was) is a perfect balance between good and evil, bliss and suffering by its very nature (assuming it is the result of all possibility), what incentive is there to live a good life, if, by deterministic forces, good deeds will be counterbalanced by bad deeds? Why not live a reckless drug and sex filled life and drive a car off a cliff, if all of being and existence will balance this force out? Why strive to live a good life in this life (just for the sake, that it feels good and/or to counteract evil) if the nature of reality and existence is balance? Why love if love will be followed by hate - and vice versa?

A couple ideas come to mind. . . 

To me, your construct of balance between good and bad is overly simplistic. It assumes that balance is equal proportions and does not include the concept of contrast. . . Consider that for a thing to exist, it needs contrast against "not-that-thing". For relative love to exist, it needs relative hate as contrast. Yet this does not mean that relative love and hate must be in equal proportions.

Imagine spending 24/7 in a completely white room. Everything in your reality is white. . . After a while, you will forget colors. Your entire reality is white and that too will disappear. It would be a colorless reality. . . . What you are saying is that for there to be color contrast, the room must be 50% white and 50% black. Yet this is not the case. All we need is 1% black. If we had one black dot that was 1% of the space, it would be sufficient. We can now look at the black dot and realize everything surrounding the black dot is not black, it is white. 

Similarly, relative love and relative hate do not need to be 50% each to be "balanced". 1% hate is more than enough to contrast love. We could continually reference that tiny fragment of hate as contrast for the 99% love. 

I also get the sense of "why bother" from your post. Why bother working toward a good life and feelings of love if it will one day be gone? Sometimes, I have this dilemma with yoga. I work hard on my flexibility, strength and balance and feel great - yet then I realize I can't keep this up forever. At some point, I'm going to slack up on my yoga and stop doing it. Then I will get out-of-shape and feel like crap. And remembering how I used to be in shape will make being out-of-shape feel even worse. So why bother getting in shape in the first place, if it won't last forever? The answer that comes back to me is: what do I want to do Now? For now, do I want to engage with things that inspire me? Things that give me wonder, awe and joy? Or right now, do I want to engage with things that make me feel crappy?

15 hours ago, Sahi96 said:

what incentive is there to live a good life, if, by deterministic forces

Once a purely deterministic construct is created, it's full stop. Everything you are asking is irrelevant in a deterministic construct. It would be like jumping off a cliff and asking "what incentive is there for me to start flying like a bird if it is determined I will continue to fall and I will hit the ground?". It makes no sense.