Why Leo has no grace?

[Forestluv]

"Why Leo has no grace?"

Notice the enormous presupposition here. There is a presupposition that there is an objective thing called "grace" in which Leo lacks and that everyone knows what this "grace" thing is. It's not like saying "Leo has no thumbs" in which everyone knows what "thumbs" mean. 

One might contemplate "what is grace"? And explore many different perspectives and essences. 

I tried to find what your concept of "grace" is in your OP and the closest I could find is:

4 hours ago, The Buddha said:

I see photos or videos of people, who even being saints, it is clear that they are much more asleep than Leo, however I feel this buzz in my third eye and my body is more light and relaxed.

his mere presence doesn't bring me to God.

I don't feel God's presence when he just is. However, I feel it with less realized individuals that just by watching a picture, even not knowing anything of them, I immediately feel it's grace, 

So, it seems for you that "grace" is that which makes you feel a buzz in your third eye, a light body, relaxed, Godlike, 

4 hours ago, The Buddha said:

So very puzzled about this phenomena: grace, wisdom, awakenings, blessings, God's presence... Thought they all went together, any insights? What are your thoughts about this?

I would say some of the confusion involves assumptions of external, objective things and creating distinctions.

Rather than assuming there are objective things of grace, wisdom. awakening. blessings, God's presence etc - consider that you are creating these experiences and ideas. Take a step back and observe the constructs you are creating. For example, the belief that "grace" goes with God's presence. You are giving a characteristic of "Grace" to "God" - and this "Grace" is perceived as feeling a third eye buzz and relaxed. That definition may have practical value, yet it is exclusive. When you don't feel a third eye buzz or relaxed, cognitive dissonance will arise. Your definition would reject aspects of God that is not aligned with your constructs. For example, we can say that God is One Everything. This is contrary to belief and will cause confusion. How can god be that which I don't perceive as grace and relaxation? How can the coronavirus, criminal activity and hatred by God? And if God is Unconditional, that means you too are God and nothing outside of your can bring you to the presence of God - since the presence of God is always with you.

A way to expand would be to expand your concept of things like "enlightenment" and "God". Loosen up your grip on your criteria of what counts as "enlightenment" and "God". . . and explore. For example, we might call what you are referring to as "Divine Essence". When you watch Leo, you don't experience certain Divine essence (a third eye buzz, relaxation), yet you experience other Divine essences. You mention that Leo " has profound wisdom of Reality, Truth, Conciousness and Love". So, Leo opens doors for you to profound wisdom of Reality, Truth, Consciousness and Love. We could describe that as aspects of "Divine Essence". 

Overall, we could say that no one teacher gives us a complete experience of Divine Essence. Rather, each teacher gives us an experience of certain aspects of Divine Essence. This makes sense since our perception of any human being is a finite part of a greater whole. And that whole is YOU. 

[SoonHei]

well - that's just it. the nature of grace is such that the "no grace" is also grace

drink up

@The Buddha

[Thought Art]

@Seraphim Nahhh, Psychs and physical practice increase Aura when done right. 

[Seraphim]

12 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Seraphim Nahhh, Psychs and physical practice increase Aura when done right. 

Maybe, but that doesn't mean he has a strong aura, almost no one does, which is why it feels so magical to meet someone who radiates energy/grace.

[Someone here]

That's.. Just.. Like... Your opinion.. Man! 

[Dryas]

Oh who gives a fuck. You're already getting some of the deepest insights so why should this be a point, I don't get it.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Dryas

[Hulia]

@The Buddha Leo like a real guru appears to you in the most efficient form. In the form which is designed to break your conditioning. 

How do you know what is graceful, what is not? Think about it.

[Tim R]

@The Buddha What do you mean when you say "grace"? 

 

Is a pine tree without grace because it's prickly? 

Are cats more graceful than sea urchins? 

And what what about cacti? Are they not as graceful as algae swinging in the water?

 

Nothing lacks gracefulness, one only lacks in ability to see it. 

[The Buddha]

@roopepa

@dflores321  Totally true, all paths are it's path.

@Preety_India I don't want Leo to be in any certain, I love him just as he is and I'm very grateful. The point is I couldn't understand how he could be so awake without transmiting to me blessings and joy, while less realized individuals do so. Anyway with the other posts I'm starting to understand.@Thought Art True, It's grace may be in other forms, like for example this fucking forum, aren't we all talking here thanks to it's grace and love towards us?

@seeking_brilliance It is not matching in the way of Ramana Maharshi or Anandamayi Ma. I know all teachers have their own way, but honestly at his point of super profound understanding, I would expect a bit more of radiance, u know?

@Moksha Totally agree, we are all unique and different, so everyone has a more suitable guru.

@Mason Riggle U shut my mouth. Thanks.

@roopepa Totally agree, he is propelling all humanity into the new realm of conciousness. I feel like he is the guru society needs, someone that is truly wise and can make people understand. Moreover, what I most value of Leo is that he is as deep as wide as multidimensional. He really is about the bigger picture.

@Forestluv I know it was an enormous presupposition, that is why i put the warning first thing on the post.

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

So, it seems for you that "grace" is that which makes you feel a buzz in your third eye, a light body, relaxed, Godlike, 

I mean, I'm trying the imposible like describing a flavour, but it was a relative pointing to what everyone has felt when being in the presence of an enligthened master.

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

When you watch Leo, you don't experience certain Divine essence (a third eye buzz, relaxation), yet you experience other Divine essences. You mention that Leo " has profound wisdom of Reality, Truth, Conciousness and Love". So, Leo opens doors for you to profound wisdom of Reality, Truth, Consciousness and Love. We could describe that as aspects of "Divine Essence".

Totally true, u really opened my mind there. It is like everyone has it's way to convey the same Divine Essence and he does it in it's own unique way. That is why I mentioned that when he started talking everything changed. His grace is probably the fact that he can convey this by words, which is in fact incredible. Probably most gurus if they get so far could not even express it in a way that a low concious being could even understand a word, however he does it in an amazing way.

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

Overall, we could say that no one teacher gives us a complete experience of Divine Essence. Rather, each teacher gives us an experience of certain aspects of Divine Essence. This makes sense since our perception of any human being is a finite part of a greater whole. And that whole is YOU.

Thanks man, very good insights. I think I took too many things by granted about how very high concious beings should or not be.

@Seraphim It is but, now I'm realizing it is more of an extra rather than a compulsion. All have their own way, but it is definately very magical to meet a very strong energy creator being.

@Dryas True, not doing this to criticise. Just to have more insights between awakening and the grace/God's presence phenomena.

@Tim R I would say yes and no. This was very well explained in Leo's video about the ultimate structure of reality. From the God-Head to it's fragmentation. Being all the same substance the one that is more close to the God-Head is more God-like, the ones more far away forget, and then forget that they have forgotten. So being true that it is only God manifesting, there are diferent qualities to that manifestation. Anyway if u are able to see everything as it is, with infinite grace and love it means that u are the God-Head. But if we consider your point, all questions can be answered by that words, it is just our inhability to see that it is just God, well yes that is the path, but meanwhile let's understand don't u think so?

[allislove]

7 hours ago, The Buddha said:

his mere presence doesn't bring me to God

So, there is you, Leo and God. Is it really true? The "grace" is everywhere.

"I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there." – Jesus

?

[Raze]

6 hours ago, The Buddha said:

*This is my personal opinion and feelings*

I have strange feelings about this. On the one hand, Leo is one of the few people that is truly interested in full enlightenment, which is just amazing, going all the way is super rare. On the other hand, I feel he has no grace. I see photos or videos of people, who even being saints, it is clear that they are much more asleep than Leo, however I feel this buzz in my third eye and my body is more light and relaxed. This never happened me while watching Leo's video, it is true that when he opens his mouth everything changes, but his mere presence doesn't bring me to God. He has profound wisdom of Reality, Truth, Conciousness and Love but idk I don't feel God's presence when he just is. However, I feel it with less realized individuals that just by watching a picture, even not knowing anything of them, I inmideatly feel it's grace, then check what they say and realize Leo is decades ahead of that guy.

So very puzzled about this phenomena: grace, wisdom, awakenings, blessings, God's presence... Thought they all went together, any insights? What are your thoughts about this?

I think he has a very strong ego, he said in one blog video that he has difficulty stopping thought because he's fascinated by his constant insights. Probably he hasn't properly surrendered because he enjoys thinking too much. That is why I believe he likes psychedelics so much over long term practice, because while temporary they may force him to surrender.

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, The Buddha said:

 

@Forestluv 

I mean, I'm trying the imposible like describing a flavour, but it was a relative pointing to what everyone has felt when being in the presence of an enligthened master.

To me, it doesn't seem like you are aware of underlying assumptions and relativity. For example, you write "what everyone has felt when being when being in the presence of an enligthened master"

Everyone has not felt the same thing in the presence of what you call an "enlightened master". You seem to be normalizing relative feelings to be external, objective truths. For example, in the presence of Adyashanti your 3rd eye might start buzzing, you may feel relaxed and what you call "the presence of God". Yet this is not what everyone has felt. Sam Harris may be in the prescence of Adyashanti and have a totally different experience. He may get uptight and frustrated and think Adyashanti is a woo-woo charlatan. 

Similarly, sometimes I feel a sense of buzzing and relaxation when watching Leo's videos, yet you don't.

By your standards, Adyashanti would be an enlightened being (relative to you), yet an unenlightened being (relative to Sam Harris). And Leo would sometimes be an enlightened being (relative to me), yet an unenlightened being relative to you. 

There are many different ways we can create an "enlightened being". As soon as we create a thing, it becomes relative to a not-that-thing. If we say there are enlightened beings, that is relative to non-enlightened beings. Once we enter such a relative domain, there are all sorts of constructs we can create for "enlightened being". I've come across dozens of descriptions / pointers of "enlightened beings". Each construct has value and truth - yet is incomplete since it is a separation from the whole. 

[The Buddha]

@allislove I know it, but that is an Absolute Truth, first I'm trying with relative then with absolute. When those are embodied the Absolute is what u say but to jump directly is not easy.

@Raze It may be his way, but when he jumps and embodies everything in every second of his life he may be the best guru ever. While some jump directly, they lack those insights, I am sure that when he purifies and refines everything he will be an incredible being and we will all be blessed by it's words, silence and presence.

@Forestluv

3 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

To me, it doesn't seem like you are aware of underlying assumptions and relativity. For example, you write "what everyone has felt when being when being in the presence of an enligthened master"

I disagree, it is quite an universal fact. If not how it is explained things like: all tipes of animals following Ramana Maharshi, being in joy and peace by his mere presence. They were fucking ecstatic, their faces said it everything, it may be an assumption also but it is quite obvious that his grace was beyond humans, animals and plants and that everyone could feel it.

I know that there can be also different degrees and everyone can react different but anyway to much evidence to discart it as relative or assumption.

9 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

There are many different ways we can create an "enlightened being". As soon as we create a thing, it becomes relative to a not-that-thing. If we say there are enlightened beings, that is relative to non-enlightened beings. Once we enter such a relative domain, there are all sorts of constructs we can create for "enlightened being". I've come across dozens of descriptions / pointers of "enlightened beings". Each construct has value and truth - yet is incomplete since it is a separation from the whole. 

Totally agree, but we are also describing a phenomena that usually happens when very advanced spiritual beings have reached a certain state.

[Mu_]

7 hours ago, The Buddha said:

*This is my personal opinion and feelings*

I have strange feelings about this. On the one hand, Leo is one of the few people that is truly interested in full enlightenment, which is just amazing, going all the way is super rare. On the other hand, I feel he has no grace. I see photos or videos of people, who even being saints, it is clear that they are much more asleep than Leo, however I feel this buzz in my third eye and my body is more light and relaxed. This never happened me while watching Leo's video, it is true that when he opens his mouth everything changes, but his mere presence doesn't bring me to God. He has profound wisdom of Reality, Truth, Conciousness and Love but idk I don't feel God's presence when he just is. However, I feel it with less realized individuals that just by watching a picture, even not knowing anything of them, I inmideatly feel it's grace, then check what they say and realize Leo is decades ahead of that guy.

So very puzzled about this phenomena: grace, wisdom, awakenings, blessings, God's presence... Thought they all went together, any insights? What are your thoughts about this?

Its an interesting an insight and one I've thought about before.  The thing that came to me was that its not that they don't, its that they don't for you and where your at, at this moment.  I've felt what your talking about with particular guru's and saints, and down the road, its not there, in fact its the opposite, I feel and sense their ego or rigidity in ways I didn't see before (i'm sure they'd tell me its my ego and its being reflected of their pureness of their mirror, lol I kid....kinda).

[The Buddha]

Also I would like to point out some things. For example, if u check Papaji and his life u will see that his way was no message, no guru, no student. Yet, people that where in his presence, even thought they just sat quietly a certain procces and purification was happening. In fact if u check the people that got enlightened, u can very easily realize that is has been through it's grace. U can check this documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBIK-VFvDhA

Also mention that even his way was efective, it was so because of his presence because just by the Absolute that u are already the Self it is not enough, if u are by your own. Howeveer, if it is a guru then It can be attained. I say this because most of the non-dual people here think they are awake because of the derivation that his teachings took and just enter in this non-dual spiral and they don't do the spiritual practices they should.

Also, I would like to mention Osho, in all his recorded videos it is said Silence shared in words. Which I feel it is the middle way between silence of Ramana Maharshi and profound insights of Leo.

In addition, another example of this grace phenomena is Fred Davis, while his teachings are super profound I feel almost no grace from him. Which brings to: what is the point of grace and what role does it play in the awakening path?

[The Buddha]

@Mu_ Yes, but what puzzles me is that what they say is in fact a genuine insight, a thing that u can truly realize yourself and be directly concious of, but it is not accompanied by this divine fragrance, this aroma of the embodyment of the Trascendence, this supreme purification.

[Mu_]

13 minutes ago, The Buddha said:

@Mu_ Yes, but what puzzles me is that what they say is in fact a genuine insight, a thing that u can truly realize yourself and be directly concious of, but it is not accompanied by this divine fragrance, this aroma of the embodyment of the Trascendence, this supreme purification.

Accompanied or not accompanied with what you call divine fragrance is still ultimately divine fragrance, just perhaps not momentarily experienced as such as what seems to be a body.

[The Buddha]

@Mu_  Yes it is true. But also wanted to point out and be clear that it is not only body/mind/soul experience; u experience the divine fragance and then that gets translated onto body/mind/soul: with whatever u may feel or not feel. However the divine fragrance is beyond all that. Just wanted to be clear, because if not we are putting the sock inside out.

[roopepa]

26 minutes ago, The Buddha said:

@Mu_ Yes, but what puzzles me is that what they say is in fact a genuine insight, a thing that u can truly realize yourself and be directly concious of, but it is not accompanied by this divine fragrance, this aroma of the embodyment of the Trascendence, this supreme purification.

Perhaps you are focusing on wrong things. Forget Leos face and focus on the energy of Actualized.org, this forum, the work we are doing here. Do you see the purification, do you smell the fragrance?

[The Buddha]

@roopepa Fuck yeah, it is true. It is not the artist, it is his art. Other gurus are artist and art at the same time. Leo is the artist and the art is what he does, his videos and dedicated work.