How To Improve The Political System

[Pramit]

I don't follow politics until recently where i got hooked to american politics (i am not from america). Without getting into a rant nor offering any self analysis, i just want to ask a simple question, how can the system be improved so that it fulfils its purpose? What rules should institutions have to make sure that at some point they don't start to become self serving? 

[Orange]

I don't know much about politics, but I know something about nature which might be useful here. Some insects operate on what is called a decentralised system (eg. ants): each one of the insects have an active role in the colony and control is distributed equally among them. So they will act based on local information and the sum of these actions will give rise to an emergent property or dynamic. This is the opposite of what we have as a human species, we have a highly centralised system, where power is concentrated among a few of us who have control on 99% of the rest of society.

I think the issue with politics is that the systems we have today are inherently problematic. Even if someone comes in with great ideas, they still need to play by the rules and that leads to little progress at best, or a yuge inflated ego at worst. 

Change the system, change  the outcome. Yuge improvement. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Orange

[Orange]

You know actually, another problem is; if you are going to have a centralised system, you need to make sure the ones in charge are super intelligent and know what they're doing. And it's not usually the case. Some sort of big daddy for the politicians. Who smokes pipe and scratches his beard when he's thinking. Thats the kind of person you want in charge, not a little baby teenager who is still choking on his first puff of cigarette and making tantrums

[Yang Noctus]

@Orange  Are you aware that there are different levels for governance? For example in The Netherlands: prime minister, parliament, provinces, municipalities? It's not as centralized as you might think. I belief a centralized system is necessary for the proper functioning of a country. A good example of a decentralized system would be a Ancient Greece, there were all these city states, Sparta, Carthage, Athens etc. all with their own lands, but they fought all the time, a bunch of different states fighting amongst themselves in a whole country referred to as Greece. I belief a centralized system like we have nowadays is a representation of unity and order. Alot of people only have arguments against the system and wanting to change the system, but have you considered the benefits of the current system?

[The Monk]

@Pramit I am a student of Politics, and fell in love with the subject when I started. But, ever since starting actualised.org work, involving meditation and actualisation. Yet, I'm relatively good at it, It's complete CRAP, and indoctrination at its finest. In my opinion Politics will always be politicians thumping their chest in Parliament, as Leo likes to say, and flinging shit at one another for the amusement of the public, which is very animal like behaviour. Which is why politics will never change, unless our politicians become enlightened and truly see the consequences of their actions, their harm to society, and what's truly is important, rather than pursuing their own selfish ambitions with the power they've acquired, which is used meaninglessly by many of them. Just look at Trump and Hilary, during this Presidential election they are key examples of this. Trump wants money through political power, by varying and lowering taxation to support his already owned business, whereas Hilary wants political power for the status it provides, and the position it places her in, in comparison to other members of society, along with the increase in her salary, as President.  Which is what our Politicians around the world follow in either minor forms or major forms, but nevertheless this disregard for society is why, the political system will never improve, realistically; as you can make assumptions and dreams of how it can be improved, but when you ask yourself "how can this be improved REALISTICALLY with our current variables?" it simply can't.

[Orange]

21 hours ago, Yang Noctus said:

@Orange  Are you aware that there are different levels for governance? For example in The Netherlands: prime minister, parliament, provinces, municipalities? It's not as centralized as you might think. I belief a centralized system is necessary for the proper functioning of a country. A good example of a decentralized system would be a Ancient Greece, there were all these city states, Sparta, Carthage, Athens etc. all with their own lands, but they fought all the time, a bunch of different states fighting amongst themselves in a whole country referred to as Greece. I belief a centralized system like we have nowadays is a representation of unity and order. Alot of people only have arguments against the system and wanting to change the system, but have you considered the benefits of the current system?

Yes, i can understand these benefits. But it seems to me there is not enough power in the citizen's hands. That the globalised market is controlling political governments and this market is controlled by a small minority of people. 

Also, decentralized doesn't mean it automatically brings war into the equation. You gave one valid example, maybe I can think of a counter example where decentralized was working for the people in peace and harmony. But I cannot think of one right now.

Anyway, if we don't fight within our countries we are fighting overseas. Which is better? 

To be honest, the political system we have right now is indeed filling up some of society's needs: security, infrastructure, education, etc. But its not good enough. You might already be aware the environment is turning more and more hostile and poisonous for everyone. Some say we are at the brink of extinction. Maybe? who knows. But many signs do point in that direction. And it also seems that politics is not addressing this problem because they are too focused on finding out where the next big money is in the stock market, designing more golf courses, playing chess with Russia, or doing treasure hunt for oil. The bus driver is driving us into a wall. So if everyone could learn some bus driving skills and take over the wheel for a moment in turns, maybe we'd avoid the wall? And hit a tree instead lol. 

I don't know. This is my favorite phrase now: i don't fucking know. 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2016 by Orange

[abrakamowse]

No government at all is the best system.

 

 

[Yang Noctus]

@Orange I totally agree with your sophisticated and well-thought  vision. Ever thought about doing something with it? Maybe political philosophy?

[abrakamowse]

Workers cooperatives is the solution. People taking action despite of the bad governments, that would be a good change.

http://institute.coop/

[Xpansion]

All I know is that where I live the politicians are the most heartless, self serving, greedy, fearful, xenophobic, homophobic, sexist, reckless bunch of dinosaurs on planet earth.  It's a dire situation to have these types of people in control.  It's actually really painful and heart breaking.   I stopped looking at news media several months ago because I found it was too depressing.   

All we can do is vote and take part in activism against their damaging policies. But most of the time it feels like they just do whatever they like despite what the people actually want.  Politics almost over the world seem to be stuck in a very dark, very retrogressive, Neo conservative place at the moment. 

[Orange]

@Yang Noctus hehe thanks for the compliment but I would feel like an impostor; like i said I don't know much about politics, but probably not much greater impostor than the humans we have up there right now..

10 hours ago, Xpansion said:

All I know is that where I live the politicians are the most heartless, self serving, greedy, fearful, xenophobic, homophobic, sexist, reckless bunch of dinosaurs on planet earth.

this is so beautiful someone should paint this.

 

Quote

 

All we can do is vote and take part in activism against their damaging policies. 

eat the beast from the inside   

Moby seems to agree with me on the global system failure as well so i'll leave you guys with this little treasure of youtube: 

I'll grant you that it's quite depressing and very one sided. But it appeals to my nihilism which is why i like it even more lol

Edited October 21, 2016 by Orange

[Andrea Marchetti]

I am not interested in politics for the simple reason that the problems that politics create are a consequence of people ignorance about themselves, if people would be more aware they would not permit fake theatres to run their material life. But the majority today is chasing useless informations and perpetuating ways of thinking which are proposed as beneficial, often with the best intentions, but indeed it's just shit and obsolete stuff.

However I have an idea of how a group of people could live harmoniously together, and that's differentiation. For example the right to vote on a particular subject should not be done by everybody. Only people with a competence in the particular subject at that time can vote. Everybody can vote though internet, there is no need for parliament or similar stuff. This way of proceeding was introduced as a tool for people to be at least represented, because we, millions of people, couldn't enter in one room and talk all together. That was not going to resolve anything. But now we can, we can use the web. Only this can be a true democracy. Furthermore only people with a competence in that field can vote. Most people are ignorant, we don't know what the problems in government are, we don't know what issues international economics has, unless we studied it. So in my opinion, colleges should be the center of the government. Philosophy government could give incredible new ways or methods in shaping a better social structure. Economy colleges can manage economical issues. And everybody has the right to study even without money, so there will be not differentiation in classes, any social class can partecipate in saying their will. And all of this is done through web, in a true democratic way. We would need to differentiate who can vote a particular law, there will be of course laws where everybody can and must vote. In this way every place on Earth own what people of that place deserve and wants. Provinces should be divided by universities. Universities must become the new government. And also, fundamentally, there must be an open minded view on new science or what can be defined as university. If in a place people are generally more intelligent they will attract intelligent people and that place will thrive better. In this way only the best thrive, the truly best. However there is the need, even in this case, to assure safety to everybody through an international neutral control, which must be without a central government, and with the only purpose to assure safety between nations, until nations will disappear. Any other law or act must be decide together, through the web and without any representation because there is no more the need, we have the proper technology now. There is the need to make those laws to be factual, so there can be an effective part of this structure where there will be functionaries like police that act, but always in the respect of people decisions. Of course different groups of people will have different preferences and personal will, so it will just happens that the majority win, because the majority of the entire population is always the one who has not tools to understand political mechanisms and get personal benefit from it, and if they say that particular law is damaging them they must be right... Yeah, there a lot of problems too in the best system, because most people do not have the feeling of being part of the world... If everybody would have the feeling of being part of existence on this planet together problems would end instantly, whatever the system is used... The system is used as a compromise to limit power to people... So I think that systems are not going to help us. That's not solution. That's a compromise.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Andrea Marchetti

[Orange]

@Andrea Marchetti

do you think nations will disappear?

and if you don't have a system, what do you have? 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Orange

[Andrea Marchetti]

@Orange

I think nations will disappear, as soon as the majority of us will loose their drive for power over others, when the will to live together and feeling part of the same family will be common. the troubles nations are creating, even at the economic level, are huge. but that's only because people still identify with a piece of ground...

there will be always a system... it's not true that it's always a compromise. Now it is a compromise (bad), and I think a lot of time it'll be. But when there will be nothing to compromise with, nor avarice or lust for power; democracy is born as a way to avoid few people to govern badly. It will be just  a system, like a structure through which, in accord with our very nature, will help us to organise our society and to thrive always better, it must allow grow and change to happen, and that's difficult for a singular social system to achieve...

[The]

That is funny LOL 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Kayako

[Bob84]

@Pramit Honesty and consequenses.

[Prabhaker]

On 10/12/2016 at 11:18 AM, Pramit said:

how can the system be improved so that it fulfils its purpose?

No political parties, because they pressurize. They accumulate money, they gather people into a certain group, make them faithful to a certain ideology, almost like religion. Political parties are dangerous just as religions are dangerous. 

Anybody who is chosen should be chosen because of his merit. If you choose a secretary for finance, then you will choose the best economist in your country.

People who don’t know anything of economics become finance secretaries, ministers. People who don’t know anything about education become education ministers. In India I knew a man who was just an idiot. He knew nothing about medicine and he became the health minister. In a meritocracy this type of man can never become a health minister, because there will be more qualified people running for the post. Vice-chancellors who have an experience of the whole of life will be standing for the post of the education minister.

 

[The]

@Prabhaker who would you vote for in this election? You don't have to give your opinions of the candidates, but just which one you'd vote for.. I'm undecided.. Don't worry about influencing me as many already are, even though they shouldn't be.. In a sense my vote is corrupt, the world is corrupt.. I may not vote.. 

[Prabhaker]

Just now, Kayako said:

who would you vote for in this election?

I don't vote, I have never applied for my voter ID card.

I don't vote criminals. The criminal is poor; he is uneducated, unsophisticated and simple-hearted. The politician is a hypocrite -- cunning, diplomatic, sophisticated. But their essential reality is the same. In other words, the criminal is a politician who could not succeed, and the politician is a criminal who has succeeded in attaining power.

They are both violent. But if you have to choose between the two, the criminal is certainly the better. He does harm, but his harm is very limited -- maybe he kills someone, but numbers for Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler are available. Joseph Stalin alone killed more than one million people after the revolution in Russia. Adolf Hitler killed six million Jews inside Germany, and in the whole second world war he killed near about thirty million people.

Criminals have a very limited score. Politicians are great criminals. So great that you accept them as your heroes, so great that they create history.

The politician is the criminal who has not been caught, and the criminal is the politician who is not clever enough, who has been caught. The ordinary criminal uses direct means. That's why he is caught. The politician uses very indirect means. Politicians are criminals with very clever, cunning, planning minds. Criminals are poor people, small politicians -- not knowing how to do things. They go on doing things and getting caught.

 

[The]

@Prabhaker you basically called them both criminals I'm not sure which you prefer?.. I may not vote.. I wanted Bernie but the corrupt world wouldn't have that.. To bad there wasn't a story with a happy ending with him as president that everyone could agree on..