Gender roles in Stage Green

[tuckerwphotography]

While living at a Stage Green spiritual community the past few months, the topic of masculine vs feminine energy came up on a nearly daily basis. From the discussions I had, it was surprising to hear how much Stage Green women re-embrace the differences between the two genders and actually desire men who embody what might be considered "traditional" gender qualities and roles. Based off MeToo and so much of the online social commentary, I would have suspected the opposite, that Green women would further flatten the differences between men and women and balk at any notion that men provide something women cannot (or don't want to provide), and vice versa.  

What I'm realizing now is that much of the mainstream feminist commentary is perhaps more grounded in Orange than true Green. Orange brings this idea of universal rights and women being able to do everything men can do, including all the gender qualities more typically associated with men (like being a dominating corporate executive embodying masculine energy qualities). Green, on the other hand, seems to value authenticity over conforming to the mainstream masculine society, and they seem to re-embrace celebrating the differences between the two genders in a way that almost feels closer to Blue than Orange.

It's also interesting to think about how this further evolves with Stage Yellow once that comes more online. Currently it feels the most prominent Yellow voices out there are all men. 

This video interviewing Green women does a good job highlighting my findings. Curious to hear others' perspectives, particularly any women on the forum.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by tuckerwphotography

[Parththakkar12]

@tuckerwphotography Women don't need men anymore. Women can do everything a man can do and more. Men are human garbage. Men are trash. Men have only caused violence and toxic masculinity. #Killallmen.

(Am I right feminists? Please send my check on time for promoting your cause.)

Edited February 24, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[aurum]

@tuckerwphotography

That lines up with my experience as well.

All of my new age hippy friends want to talk about "divine masculine" and "divine feminine". They're very open to the idea that men and women are different, without it feeling repressive. In fact it feels more like embracing who we actually are.

It is ironic, although perhaps not surprising, that mainstream feminism seems to express stage Orange values. An empowered woman is essentially seen as a woman that has embraced her masculine, i.e career, individualism, leadership, assertiveness, etc. Actual feminine values, such as nurturing and surrender, are rarely held up as ideal feminist examples.

The move towards stage Orange feminism is an obvious swing of the pendulum swing from repressive stage Blue & Red societies where women did not have autonomy and were male property. The next step for feminism will be to integrate. And I think we're starting to see pockets of that happening in stage Green gatherings like you talked about.

[soos_mite_ah]

I mean, I'm not surprised. Part of feminism is about not demonizing femininity and crediting the positive stereotypically feminine qualities (like empathy, compassion etc) as things that everyone should strive towards regardless of gender. I guess some stage orange people see the flattening of hierarchies of feminism and assume that means that women aren't going to be feminine and that they will be exactly like men. A stage orange view of feminism sees masculinity=femininity as those two being the same thing in terms of what they are while a stage green interpretation of masculinity= femininity is that the two are the same in terms of value but they can be different in terms of what they are (asymmetric but equal).

The vast majority of feminists I have met see masculinity and femininity as equal in value and don't see anything wrong with masculine men or feminine women as long as it is expressed healthily and feels authentic to that person. There is this narrative that feminists are man hating and want women to be exactly like men. It dates back to the suffrage movement and it is to appeal to conservatives as "these feminists are trampling over our traditional values and want society to burn." It's nothing new. 

Also, I think embracing your divine masculine and feminine is about tapping into your natural levels of masculinity and femininity outside of gender roles. Some men are naturally more feminine than some women. Some women are naturally more masculine. And then there is everything in between and all of that is ok. Stage green is about tapping into your authenticity in regards to masculinity and femininity whereas stage blue will force you to conform to being hyper masculine or hyper feminine as the ideal even if it doesn't feel like you. 

[Lyubov]

I don’t think you can always distill green down to whatever personal experiences you’ve had with it. It is pretty diverse stage as are the other stages. I’ve met green feminist hipsters that are kinda all about gender neutral stuff and don’t really think about masculine / feminine stuff. I think this topic just comes up and depends on a lot of stuff how people approach it. Seems like it’s kinda two extremes when it comes to green though. Get the hippies going on about divine masculine feminine and the liberal hipsters going on about genders being a construct and not important.

[soos_mite_ah]

4 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

I don’t think you can always distill green down to whatever personal experiences you’ve had with it. It is pretty diverse stage as are the other stages. I’ve met green feminist hipsters that are kinda all about gender neutral stuff and don’t really think about masculine / feminine stuff. I think this topic just comes up and depends on a lot of stuff how people approach it. Seems like it’s kinda two extremes when it comes to green though. Get the hippies going on about divine masculine feminine and the liberal hipsters going on about genders being a construct and not important.

I don't see how those two views need to be separate. To me, when I see feminists talk about things like toxic masculinity and not demonizing femininity for example, I see wanting to move from the unhealthy masculine to the divine masculine and acknowledging that femininity can be a positive thing (appreciate the divine feminine). Sure there are different terms and ways of communicating but it's moving towards the same direction, just a different flavor. 

Also, I think you can see masculinity and femininity as a gender neutral thing. We all have different levels of masculinity and femininity and we should be able to express that authentically instead of being forced to box ourselves into one or the other based on what is between our legs. Separating masculinity and femininity from a gender binary is important to be able to integrated both polarities instead of limiting ourselves based on what we are told to be by gender roles. 

[tuckerwphotography]

8 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Separating masculinity and femininity from a gender binary is important to be able to integrated both polarities instead of limiting ourselves based on what we are told to be by gender roles. 

@soos_mite_ah This was exactly what I would say to my Green friends at this spiritual community, and, to my surprise, the women kept saying to me, "Ya ya, we all have the masculine and feminine energy within us, but at the end of the day the guy I desire to have by my side should embody his strong masculine energy because what I really want is to fully bask in my divine feminine energy." I found it refreshing to hear, basically acknowledging that the different genders do offer a polarity to each other that is "sacred" and shouldn't be flattened or discarded in the name of social progress, which is often the dialogue that I encounter online. 

@Lyubov Agree, these are just personal anecdotes, and I've certainly had conversations with more "radical" Green activist friends that have a more hardline view about the topic. So yes, it's a diverse spectrum of perspectives - good point. It's interesting to think about which of these perspectives will win out in the long run or if they'll be integrated together into a cohesive whole, as @soos_mite_ah is suggesting. 

[soos_mite_ah]

35 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@soos_mite_ah This was exactly what I would say to my Green friends at this spiritual community, and, to my surprise, the women kept saying to me, "Ya ya, we all have the masculine and feminine energy within us, but at the end of the day the guy I desire to have by my side should embody his strong masculine energy because what I really want is to fully bask in my divine feminine energy." I found it refreshing to hear, basically acknowledging that the different genders do offer a polarity to each other that is "sacred" and shouldn't be flattened or discarded in the name of social progress, which is often the dialogue that I encounter online. 

I can see some women lean that way especially if they are really stage green since by the nature of the stage is to be in touch with your emotions and care about the people around you. While that seems feminine and get associated with women, to me, it's like you can label it as feminine but it's a very human quality. Same thing with being assertive and being forward moving. It carries the label of being masculine, but it isn't necessarily a man thing if that makes sense.

I think a lot of women who are green can also see embracing their femininity as a form of empowerment because since we were women we are told that being seen as feminine makes you weak. Why else can women wear pants and have that be fine but all hell breaks loose when a man decides to wear a dress? It's because men who wear things associated with femininity is seen as shameful.

I guess the woman who you are talking to is very in touch with her femininity and that's her, I'm happy for her. But not all women are like that and that's ok. Personally if I had to put a number on it I'd say that I'm 60% masculine and 40% feminine. Naturally, I find myself drawn to men who compliment that mainly guys who have more femininity in them as opposed to masculinity. IMO masculinity and femininity do exist but they are also gender neutral. 

I think we really need to take down hierarchies to let what we feel authentically shine and let natural hierarchies come in. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a trend when it comes to masculinity/femininity and gender but to get an actual understanding, you need to peel back the artificial hierarchies and conditioning.  Because social conditioning is a powerful thing and can be really subtle. This is a weird example but how often do you see men say the word cute when they aren't referring to women (like as in that's a cute shirt)? How often do you see men complimenting each other? How often do you see men who are comforted when they cry? How often do you see women who embrace their divine masculine at work only to be called a bitch behind her back? How often are women asked about marriages and kids even when they have said that they aren't interested in either? How often do you see a woman be angry and not be written off as hysterical? I could go on and on but my point is that in order to get a feel for what feels authentic to us, we have a lot of unlearning to do. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[Dryas]

Eh Idk about your sample size. Most of what I see on green-ish twitter is talking about abolishing gender and such (although perhaps you could hold both of those positions simultaneously).

[Mit]

This is also in line with my experience.

A lot of people who concern themselves with social issues (gender roles being one of them), are often motivated by resentment and/or arrogance. Something like: they're looking to subvert some sort of 'power hierarchy' in order to either exalt themselves or give themselves an excuse for a perceived inadequacy (at least this describes myself as a teenager/young adult haha)

People who are (mostly) in stage green tend to be very aware of their tendencies/nature. These people have also generally done a lot of inner work, so I guess they are less confused about their true desires.

Of course that's not to say there aren't women with a more masculine nature, or men with a more feminine nature. But they are a lot less rare than we're lead to believe.

 

[AtheisticNonduality]

Lipstick feminism > Orange feminism.

[Parththakkar12]

@tuckerwphotography On a more serious note, you're right. The Stage Orange feminazis are the mean-girl types who I mentioned in my previous comment. They're sorta like the strong, independent woman who essentially doesn't want to be a woman, she wants to be a man because it is a man's world. She envies men, she hates her periods, she's always looking for a way to fight a man in a power-struggle and God forbid if she wins, that's it. Men aren't needed in society anymore!! That'll be the conclusion.

At Green, they start to accept their femininity more and they step into their feminine power. That's where they start to give men a real, empowered role in their life which they call Divine Masculine. The whole thing about period-blood art is one of the many aspects in which they accept and honor their own femininity.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Barbara]

@tuckerwphotography That's a great video! And the asking men one is also really cool.
As a woman, I don't feel like I need men. Because to need is to have no other option and I would say that I do have enough masculine energy within me, that often I really need to accomplish goals and be consistent in creating routines and so. I super agree with Teal here tho, that although I can fabricate it, it's not very natural to me and that can make me anxious and out of tune. With a man, I feel like a step out of a rigid and lead position and can let loose and surrender. I become very feminine with curvy, juicy, and creative energy. But that sometimes can also feel out of balance since it can become too much. So yea, even with a man, I always need to cultivate masculine energy, but in a way that only will help me grown, whereas cultivating masculine energy with no man around becomes more like a job, just to operate in the basic functions. 

[Dryas]

@Parththakkar12 ?? This just sounds like conservative bs. Deconstructing gender roles doesn’t mean they wanna be a man lol wtf.

Jesus Christ why is everyone here taking Gender so seriously as if there’s some spiritual dimension to it? I say abolish and get rid of it. There’s a reason why certain people experience gender dysphoria. All this talk just seems like a way to rationalize traditional gender norms and roles which is really silly imo. Also, as I said, I don’t even know if this is a green thing. The progressive communities (which tend to be very green) I’ve observed they usually talk about getting rid of gender too.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Dryas

[Parththakkar12]

3 hours ago, Dryas said:

This just sounds like conservative bs. Deconstructing gender roles doesn’t mean they wanna be a man lol wtf.

It doesn't mean they want to be a man. But, there is an element of wanting to be a man and just being resistant to being a woman! It's there. Look hard enough, you'll see it.

[Dryas]

1 minute ago, Parththakkar12 said:

It doesn't mean they want to be a man. But, there is an element of wanting to be a man and just being resistant to being a woman! It's there. Look hard enough, you'll see it.

They’re deconstructing gender roles and there’s nothing more to it. This is just a conservative talking point “women should just be feminine, men should just be masculine.” Like, I don’t know what I can say to that except “Ok boomer”

[Parththakkar12]

2 minutes ago, Dryas said:

They’re deconstructing gender roles and there’s nothing more to it. This is just a conservative talking point “women should just be feminine, men should just be masculine.” Like, I don’t know what I can say to that except “Ok boomer”

No should-statements, just pointing out the reality. There's problems with polarity-flipped relationships, so, yeah.

[tuckerwphotography]

@Parththakkar12 @Dryas I think you're both pointing to aspects of the full picture. Part of the discussion I've seen is about deconstructing gender roles and other parts involve flattening/deconstructing any differences between men and women, which feels somewhat like a pathology of reality, which people like Jordan Peterson and others have made a living out of attacking. 

So, is it possible both of you are partly accurate? 

[Dryas]

@Parththakkar12 So just to be clear, when you say that there’s an element of a feminist wanting to be a man you also don’t think there’s anything wrong with that? Well, it didn’t really come off like that but alright. 

@tuckerwphotography Perhaps although I have to ask how old the people you're talking to are? I just don't see what you see so maybe possibly those folks still have some boomer-ish ideas depending on the age.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Dryas

[Parththakkar12]

2 minutes ago, Dryas said:

@Parththakkar12 So just to be clear, when you say that there’s an element of a feminist wanting to be a man you also don’t think there’s anything wrong with that? Well, it didn’t really come off like that but alright. 

I'm not at all against it in the moral sense, nothing wrong with it in the objective sense. It's just kinda distasteful to me personally, that's it.