Feeling like you're not making any progress

[electroBeam]

Sometimes when I do consciousness work, I feel like I'm relieving suffering, learning, exploring, on the right track, only then to get some potential indications that I've just been traveling down a dead end path that didn't lead to relieving suffering, aligning myself closer to God, etc.

For example, you can think you're aligning yourself more with God, relieving suffering by doing zen meditation when you let go of everything, but after assessing yourself for a period of time like 6 months, it can become very obvious or apparent to you that the amount of suffering hasn't reduced and you were just going down a dead end path and have to try something else.

Or when your exploring your body through yoga and you get really excited by the possibility that you're getting a deeper understanding or connection with it, but after a 6 month period you get indications that you aren't getting a deeper connection with it, and it was just a dead end path that didn't relieve suffer, didn't give you a deeper understanding or connection with your body.

Or when you very rigorously practice loving kindness meditation for months on end and you're no more loving at the end of it then when you started.

What are some ways of relieving yourself of the suffering that such insights have, especially if such ones happen A LOT.

Edited February 24, 2021 by electroBeam

[Shunyata]

drop this story first. realize you are pure awareness and have always been it

[Gesundheit]

Stop using psychedelics. The real work happens in the real world.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

26 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

it can become very obvious or apparent to you that the amount of suffering hasn't reduced and you were just going down a dead end path

BINGO, that's the whole point! The true purpose of doing these types of exercises is to make you realise that now amount of "doing" will ever get you to so-called enlightenment. How can you achieve that which you already are?

"Awakening" is what happens if you stop doing and start being... or rather remember that you already are being. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Bazooka Jesus

[Guest EmptyVase]

Sounds like you are rearranging letters in an alphabet soup, in order to become the soup

[Leo Gura]

@electroBeam If you are doing those practices rigorously, they should be generating results within 6 months. If they are not, then either you are doing them wrong/sloppily, or they are not suited for you and you must find a different practice that works for you.

Also, consider that your mind is elastic and will generate as much suffering as it is used to holding. So as you slay one case of suffering space will be freed up for more new suffering.

The only way to really overcome that is to purify your body/mind through serious spiritual practice and genuine growth.

It's very easy to trick oneself into thinking you are growing when in fact you are just studying theory, memorizing spiritual ideas, or thinking about stuff. You need to distinguish real growth from fake growth. I have an older episode about that.

How do you know if you're genuinely growing? Ask yourself, with honesty. Is anything about your fundamentally changing? Or are you just making your surroundings more comfortable. Changing your material surroundings is not growth.

[Guest EmptyVase]

Also, finding out what that feeling is trying to convey to you can be a step forward. The very feeling of you not feeling aligned is the call for alignment.

Why do you feel like that? Why do you want to feel different? Understanding emotions is crucial, and often, they serve as bread crumbles. Simply hear them out, give them space and really understand them.

Nahm's website is amazing for that, I'd suggest checking out the emotional scale he put up there. It's very insightful.

[electroBeam]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's very easy to trick oneself into thinking you are growing when in fact you are just studying theory, memorizing spiritual ideas, or thinking about stuff. You need to distinguish real growth from fake growth. I have an older episode about that.

yep totally agree

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

then either you are doing them wrong/sloppily

I'm probably doing it wrong or sloppily.

But what determines whether you do it wrong or sloppily?

Because you can practice a technique with a lot of focus, seriousness, perseverance, yet that can lead to you doing things too mechanically and you not listening to your body enough. Sometimes the suggestion of listening to your body can come across as practicing things sloppily when its actually not.

For example, you can practice kriya yoga through doing lots of concentration and focus on get the technique exactly right, and then it doesn't get you anywhere, so you play around with it till it starts doing stuff you like, but then how much of that playing around is you getting sloppy? You can't just keep practicing the technique rigorously because its too mechanical, yet if you start playing around that's when the ego loves to get in and trick you and make you practice it sloppily.

Quote

How do you know if you're genuinely growing? Ask yourself, with honesty. Is anything about your fundamentally changing? Or are you just making your surroundings more comfortable. Changing your material surroundings is not growth.

That video had a lot of stuff on materialistic success vs spirituality which is awesome. What I need more help with is feeling like I'm understanding how reality works more through doing certain practices, and then those understandings get contradicted and I get upset. For example I was going deep into how to have better sex by practicing sexual/spiritual exercises, and then I thought I nailed what the go was, which was something like visualizing sexual energy come up from your dick to other parts of your body, tried that, worked well sometimes, and then it stopped working and then you start questioning whether you're just deluding yourself.

Edited February 24, 2021 by electroBeam

[Guest EmptyVase]

1 minute ago, electroBeam said:

Because you can practice a technique with a lot of focus, seriousness, perseverance

Focus is great. Keep in mind though, that spiritual practices are something much more to be felt. At least, that was the case for me. Brought me out of my head.

[Girzo]

23 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Stop using psychedelics. The real work happens in the real world.

Nah, to be a great mystic one shall do lots of psychedelics... and meditate even more.

[Gesundheit]

@Girzo Progress does not happen by manipulating the external world. Rather, it happens by changing your relationship to it. You can fly to the moon and feel lighter, but don't fool yourself into thinking that have actually lost weight. You will know when you come back to the earth.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

But what determines whether you do it wrong or sloppily?

Getting results

If you do something for a few months and don't see/feel any results, then you gotta adapt.

Quote

Because you can practice a technique with a lot of focus, seriousness, perseverance, yet that can lead to you doing things too mechanically and you not listening to your body enough. Sometimes the suggestion of listening to your body can come across as practicing things sloppily when its actually not.

For example, you can practice kriya yoga through doing lots of concentration and focus on get the technique exactly right, and then it doesn't get you anywhere, so you play around with it till it starts doing stuff you like, but then how much of that playing around is you getting sloppy? You can't just keep practicing the technique rigorously because its too mechanical, yet if you start playing around that's when the ego loves to get in and trick you and make you practice it sloppily.

You cannot turn this into an algorithm. You must feel, listen, and adapt using creative intelligence and consciousness.

Playing around is not sloppy per se. That's an important part of experimentation. Sloppy is more like being lazy, skipping days, not doing it earnestly, etc.

There is a big difference between being lazy about the gym vs experimenting at the gym. Experimentation is actually one of the goals.

Quote

That video had a lot of stuff on materialistic success vs spirituality which is awesome. What I need more help with is feeling like I'm understanding how reality works more through doing certain practices, and then those understandings get contradicted and I get upset. For example I was going deep into how to have better sex by practicing sexual/spiritual exercises, and then I thought I nailed what the go was, which was something like visualizing sexual energy come up from your dick to other parts of your body, tried that, worked well sometimes, and then it stopped working and then you start questioning whether you're just deluding yourself.

In practice getting great results in life requires A LOT of experimentation and trial and error. And failure. Way more than anyone expects.

I have tried a lot of different meditation techniques and most of them have failed for me. I was not happy with the results. So I had to adapt. You can't just do these things robotically and hope that they will work. You must find what specifically works for you. It makes no difference what works for others, only what works specifically for you.

Getting significant growth in this work tends to take many years as you waste a lot of time upfront just getting to know the field, babbling in stuff, and wasting time. The results curve for genuine growth is very long and flat at first, then it skyrockets after you reach a certain critical mass. Which is why few people grow much, but those you devote themselves to it can grow to super-human levels. It is a big investment and most of the rewards come years later.

But this is not say you should continue doing practices which you feel aren't generating results within a few months. It should not take years to start feeling some results. That means your method is too ineffective or inappropriate for you.

[Hello from Russia]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Getting results

If you do something for a few months and don't see/feel any results, then you gotta adapt.

You cannot turn this into an algorithm. You must feel, listen, and adapt using creative intelligence and consciousness.

Playing around is not sloppy per se. That's an important part of experimentation. Sloppy is more like being lazy, skipping days, not doing it earnestly, etc.

There is a big difference between being lazy at the gym vs experimenting at the gym. Experimentation is actually one of the goals.

In practice getting great results in life requires A LOT of experimentation and trial and error. And failure. Way more than anyone expects.

I have tried a lot of different meditation techniques and most of them have failed for me. I was not happy with the results. So I had to adapt. You can't just do these things robotically and hope that they will work. You must find what specifically works for you. It makes no difference what works for others, only what works specifically for you.

Nice stuff. It's like they have this story about Buddha how he tried 100s of techniques until he's stumbled upon Vipassana and it apparently made him enlightened (As they say it). I don't like Vipassana too much, personally, and I guess it is indeed more about finding a technique that is right for you and trying a bunch of stuff in the process

[Leo Gura]

I highly doubt the Buddha used any technique similar to today's Vipassana.

He almost certainly wasn't sitting there doing See, Hear, Feel or some Goenka body scanning.

[electroBeam]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Getting significant growth in this work tends to take many years as you waste a lot of time upfront just getting to know the field, babbling in stuff, and wasting time.

Yep cool that's how it feels to me, thanks.

I guess if you aren't happy with your growth curve, fundamentally the only thing you can really do is try super hardcore. Just go nuts and trying. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

the only thing you can really do is try super hardcore. Just go nuts and trying.

Yeah, but you gotta try smart. Don't keep doing the same shit robotically over and over again. Adapt. Think outside the box. Figure out why it wasn't working and learn from your mistakes.

Failure is only a problem if you don't learn and adapt from it.

[nistake]

I read this paragraph a while ago and this kinda applies to your situation:

Quote

Yes, seeing what you really are, in all the endless ways, can be scary. You do have to wade through loneliness, grief, confusion, and immense loss. You have to see and love the parts of yourself that frighten and disgust you the most. You have to be willing to die into the fires of awakening, with no hope of recovery. You have to let go of getting a fix from that guy, or that show, or that cookie, or that meditation technique. The part of you that can get a fix will be no more, and when you try to get off on whatever it is, it won’t work. It’s scary and you lose a lot, but once you stop hitting snooze and wake up to the next transformation, none of that will matter. You will be operating from a whole new perspective. Born again, so to speak. Until you reach the next plateau and do it all again. The good news is, your relationship with this process will change as you do. It won’t always be such a big drama to awaken. You won’t hit snooze so many times, and eventually not at all.

So spiritual awakening is no joke and hopefully you're in it for the long run. After all, we're talking about changing your whole life and wordview. You have the necessary sources for the techniques so do some experimentation, find what works for you and in time you'll see results if you're patient and persistent enough. Besides, a period of 6 months is really not so much. The thing is, you can't expect serious results in half a year.

[electroBeam]

Im not into awakening I'm into personal development haha. But thats an awesome paragraph, must of been written by jed mckenna's brother.

[Preety_India]

Are you emotionally connecting with your consciousness work? 

Or are you doing it because you feel an obligation? 

Important questions to consider. 

 

[mmKay]

Screw traditonal meditation. Get a beeper that beeps you into awareness every 30 seconds. That will skyroket your day to day awareness.

IDK actually, I haven't done it for a long time, so that's that.