What are some limits of system thinking?

[Dark_White]

So what are those limits and how can one can be better at systems thinking like, what are the methods.

 

[Rilles]

1 hour ago, Dark_White said:

So what are those limits and how can one can be better at systems thinking like, what are the methods.

 

That models arent the territory. Life is experience.

...But systems thinking is so advanced for most folks that it would be unneccessary to critique it, its kind of like abandoning your ship in the middle of the river. You probably wont exhaust systems thinking in this life time. 

Another problem is language in general, ineffability, some things just cant be explained to others. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Rilles

[Gesundheit]

Really good question, imo.

Just right off the top of my head:

• Paralysis by analysis.
• Map and territory confusion.
• Disconnection from reality, aka delusional thinking.
• Disconnection from others, aka loneliness.
• Higher chances for escapism and bypassing work.
• Time consuming.
• Harder to implement.
• Perfectionism pitfalls.
• Increased likelihood of procrastination.
• Can make you highly stressed.
• Can cause you doubt and second-guessing.
• Poor prioritization leads to poor results, regardless of how systematic you are.

Now, most of that is on the personal level. But when it comes to corporates and stuff like that where data is involved, the limits will be far less and the benefits far greater. So being systematic about using systems thinking is probably the smart way to go about it.

[Username]

Inevitably at some point you will start running circles. System thinking is good if you want to share your thoughts or want to create something that can be replicated. The issue is that reality is dynamic, so you will spend a lot of time adapting you system.

In everyday life intuition is much more effective because it lets you go straight to the point.

[Setzer901]

Some good points @Gesundheit

[aurum]

4 hours ago, Rilles said:

That models arent the territory. Life is experience.

...But systems thinking is so advanced for most folks that it would be unneccessary to critique it, its kind of like abandoning your ship in the middle of the river. You probably wont exhaust systems thinking in this life time. 

Another problem is language in general, ineffability, some things just cant be explained to others. 

I'll second this.

There are limits to systems thinking. Map is not the territory, trying to access Truth via logic etc.

But that's like a 1% problem to have. Most people are no where near systemic enough in their thinking.

If you've truly maxed out systems thinking, that's a good problem to have. You're probably at least SD Yellow.

4 hours ago, Dark_White said:

how can one can be better at systems thinking like, what are the methods.

First you have to learn about it. So read books on systems thinking / systems theory.

Then practice the lens. When you see something happening in the world, try to apply that lens of systems thinking.

It doesn't make it the only lens, but it can be a useful one. Practice when to pick it up and when to put it down.

[Dark_White]

I just forgot i made this post, lol!

@Rilles Yeah systems thinking are really fun to play with and also as you said you can't able to exhaust in one life time.

@Gesundheit Thank you. That are some outstanding analysis! ? ?

@Username hmm, major thing to consider.

 

@aurum

10 hours ago, aurum said:

If you've truly maxed out systems thinking, that's a good problem to have. You're probably at least SD Yellow.

I'm not even close to beginner level in system thinking. I was always a 1st principle thinker through out my life, i just wanna know what's the deepest thing down there. But system thinking seems easy to manipulate and also effecient when compared to 1st principles thinking, in this context.

Instead of coming from one way i can choose from any different pathways to get the result via system thinking.

Wondering which stage would be the 1st principle thinker would be?

[Carl-Richard]

25 minutes ago, Dark_White said:

I was always a 1st principle thinker through out my life

What's that?

[Dark_White]

@Carl-Richard like boiling down things to the root of the cause and manipulating from it or understanding.

like if you think of growing an good apple.

You should disect everything and looking it from the 1st emergence phenomena like in this case a good soil and then a plant and then the apple. Like from that you start to understand how you can get a good apple or bad apple.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Dark_White

[hyruga]

40 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What's that?

Means everything starts from scratch.

 

Which explains why Tesla auto cars keep crashing.

 

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, Dark_White said:

@Carl-Richard like boiling down things to the root of the cause and manipulating from it or understanding.

like if you think of growing an good apple.

You should disect everything and looking it from the 1st emergence phenomena like in this case a good soil and then a plant and then the apple. Like from that you start to understand how you can get a good apple or bad apple.

So basically the Cartesian method (analysis -> "certainty" -> synthesis), a.k.a modern mainstream thought

I personally wouldn't call it 1st principle thinking, because apparently there are many types of so-called 1st principles.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, hyruga said:

Means everything starts from scratch.

Nobody truly starts from scratch though

 

1 hour ago, hyruga said:

Which explains why Tesla auto cars keep crashing.

 

LOL

Edited February 22, 2021 by Carl-Richard