Verifying a Direct Experience

[jj40]

Leo constantly reminds people to verify it for themselves in there own direct experience. But how do I know if I have or have not directly experienced something? Like what does it mean for me to directly verify something someone tells me. Especially when an experience is so radically outside of my scope of possibility. 

I have many experiences where there is a clear shift. But I don't know what that is. Or what I am experience other than a change in my experience. 

Basically what I am asking is, does one just know they have directly experienced one of the many insights Leo talks in length about. 

 

 

Another thing which I'd actually like to ask Leo directly is. How can you be so definitive with your language when describing the ultimate nature of reality? Is language that profoundly descriptive. It's confusing to me how you can be so certain in your language when describing something like God, or Infinity. Is this because this is what you believe to be the current best descriptive tool? Or the meaning of the language you use is so vastly different from other people?

We cannot symbolize reality yet you give direct and definitive answers with a language.

[Leo Gura]

A) Take psychedelic to have your first glimpse of "direct experience".

Although of course you have direct experience without psychedelics too. If I tell you the sun shines in the morning, you don't need to believe me. You can experience it for yourself.

B) All language is relative. But within the relative terms we generally agree upon, a pretty accurate description of reality is possible. But of course you don't have reference experiences yet for terms like God, Love, Infinity, Truth, Good, Consciousness, etc. So you'll have to acquire those reference experiences before you can know what they really mean. The only reason you know what a "sun" is, is because you have reference experience for that word.

Don't forget, the map is not the territory. The notion of "the sun" is not the same as the actual sun itself.

I give direct, definitive answers, but they are still just a symbol, not the thing itself. For some reason you have no problem accepting when someone tells you clearly and definitively that the sun is shining outside. Yet you have a problem with my answers.

I can be so certain because I became infinite conscious. You can too.

[jj40]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But of course you don't have reference experiences yet for terms like God, Love, Infinity, Truth, Good, Consciousness, etc. So you'll have to acquire those reference experiences before you can know what they really mean. The only reason you know what a "sun" is, is because you have reference experience for that word.

So will the direct experience of let's say 'infinite' be as obvious as my direct experience of the 'the sun'? Because even when I have a direct experience of the sun, I only know I'm having a direct experience of the sun due to the knowledge I have about it being 'the sun'. Otherwise, if I was the first person to experience it I wouldn't have any clue about what I'm observing. Then on top of that I'd need a language to distill that experience down into relative terms in order to attempt in describing that experience.

So, I have never experienced "God, Love, Infinity, Truth, Good, Consciousness" well I'm pretty sure I haven't definitely not to the degree you describe, but if I do will I know that's what I'm experiencing?

 

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I give direct, definitive answers, but they are still just a symbol, not the thing itself. For some reason you have no problem accepting when someone tells you clearly and definitively that the sun is shining outside. Yet you have a problem with my answers.

I have no problem with your answers. I am however confused on one can create definitive answers within a symbolized system such as language, about something which cannot be systematized. Language is extremely weird now I'm thinking about it as it can be interpreted completely differently for everyone.

I guess we could both sit together and directly experience the sun and agree upon it through language. Could we do the same with something like "Truth"? Or is that just a ridiculous question.

Edited February 21, 2021 by jj40

[snowyowl]

6 hours ago, jj40 said:

Leo constantly reminds people to verify it for themselves in there own direct experience. But how do I know if I have or have not directly experienced something? Like what does it mean for me to directly verify something someone tells me. Especially when an experience is so radically outside of my scope of possibility. 

Hi, I may be mistaken here, but it appears that you're using words as your starting point (eg Leo's teachings), and then trying to 'fit' your experience with the theory. 

My suggestion: flip it round. Your experience is already true. The difficulty most of us face is experiencing the experience in a direct, pure way without layering it over and obscuring it with our culturally conditioned thoughts. This is basically what the spiritual techniques aim for. When we've made some progress with that, we make more headway comparing 'my' experience with someone else's description of theirs. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by snowyowl

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, jj40 said:

So will the direct experience of let's say 'infinite' be as obvious as my direct experience of the 'the sun'?

It will be WAY more obvious.

So obvious you will be shocked, horrified, and amused.

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Because even when I have a direct experience of the sun, I only know I'm having a direct experience of the sun due to the knowledge I have about it being 'the sun'. Otherwise, if I was the first person to experience it I wouldn't have any clue about what I'm observing. Then on top of that I'd need a language to distill that experience down into relative terms in order to attempt in describing that experience.

You'd still see the sun. Just without all the conceptual baggage. This is not a problem.

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So, I have never experienced "God, Love, Infinity, Truth, Good, Consciousness" well I'm pretty sure I haven't definitely not to the degree you describe, but if I do will I know that's what I'm experiencing?

It depends on how conscious you are and your ability to interconnect those words and experiences.

Some contemplation and mental effort is necessary. You should contemplate each of those words and concepts. Then one day you will encounter what they really refer to.

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I have no problem with your answers. I am however confused on one can create definitive answers within a symbolized system such as language, about something which cannot be systematized.

Yes, well, I factor that into everything I say. The answers are definitive but they are still just a map. You can have a very definitive, clear, good map. But it ain't ever the thing it maps.

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I guess we could both sit together and directly experience the sun and agree upon it through language. Could we do the same with something like "Truth"? Or is that just a ridiculous question.

You don't appreciate how deep this goes. We don't need to sit together. When you awaken you will realize I am you. Literally. You will realize that I have been living through your body your whole life.

I am you! Lol

Truth is absolute. Don't go asking someone else to validate it because there is no one else in the universe but you. The only one who can validate Absolute Truth, is you. This is not a mistake, this is the nature of Absolute Truth.

[jj40]

@Leo Gura Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Extremely appreciate of you and your channel, even if it's possible that you are me and I'm unconsciously imagining all this shit. 

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, jj40 said:

I'm unconsciously imagining all this shit.

You are consciously imagining all this shit

[docs20]

On 21/2/2021 at 2:22 PM, Leo Gura said:

A) Take psychedelic to have your first glimpse of "direct experience".

Although of course you have direct experience without psychedelics too. If I tell you the sun shines in the morning, you don't need to believe me. You can experience it for yourself.

B) All language is relative. But within the relative terms we generally agree upon, a pretty accurate description of reality is possible. But of course you don't have reference experiences yet for terms like God, Love, Infinity, Truth, Good, Consciousness, etc. So you'll have to acquire those reference experiences before you can know what they really mean. The only reason you know what a "sun" is, is because you have reference experience for that word.

Don't forget, the map is not the territory. The notion of "the sun" is not the same as the actual sun itself.

I give direct, definitive answers, but they are still just a symbol, not the thing itself. For some reason you have no problem accepting when someone tells you clearly and definitively that the sun is shining outside. Yet you have a problem with my answers.

I can be so certain because I became infinite conscious. You can too.

How do you experience the sun or anything else as it actually is?

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, docs20 said:

How do you experience the sun or anything else as it actually is?

By shutting up your mind and just looking at it.

What you see is Absolute Truth.