Is there any way to make self-inquiry more pleasant?

[meow_meow]

Because over time it starts to feel like bashing against the wall, questioning "What am I?" Or dropping language and looking still ends up exactly where it starts, the one who looks, which is me, is me looking for me, but no explanation comes out of that, Who is I?

So basically looping trough this the whole session becomes very very exhausting, takes more and more emotional labor.

What are your techniques to make this process easier or more pleasant?

Edited February 20, 2021 by meow_meow

[TheSelf]

@meow_meowTo whom it becomes exhausting or boring?

And who wants this process becoming more pleasant? 

Is it you or this secondary false "I" which you become aware of from time to time?

Enquire into it.

In all states you are Aware of every fucking thing!

Its doesn't matter what you are aware of! But basically you are Aware, no matter what! Pure awareness.

The false "I" appears and disappears with feelings, emotions, thoughts etc. You constantly need to enquire and ask yourself "to whom all this"? 

To eventually break the identifications with this false sense of self, this false secondary "I" wich appear and disappear within you.

This practice is not about finding an answer, it's about being aware of awareness. It's about building your power with the knowledge of the self and rise above the illusions of egoic mind.

It's about finding your true nature as ever present peace and abide as who you are.

Edited February 20, 2021 by m0hsen

[Dark_White]

@meow_meow for me i just realized nothingness by doing this simple technique called neti-neti. It's very simple and powerful. So this is how it goes.

1. Do you see any things? Example I see chair is the chair me? No I'm not the chair i can be aware of the chair.
2. Okay am i the seeing? No I'm not seeing itself, I'm aware of the sight.
3. Okay am i the thought? No, I'm aware of the thought so awareness and the object cannot be the same.
4. Okay am i the awareness itself, watch out its a thought and you eliminated it who are you then what you're left with.
5. And yeah super important thing is whatever you become aware of it is not you becuase you're the one who's aware of it. You gotta realize this and you would have that insight that you're nothing!

This worked super fine for me, hope you get it! cheers!!

Edited February 20, 2021 by Dark_White

[Gesundheit]

@m0hsen ????????

[meow_meow]

50 minutes ago, m0hsen said:

@meow_meowTo whom it becomes exhausting or boring?

And who wants this process becoming more pleasant? 

Is it you or this secondary false "I" which you become aware of from time to time?

Enquire into it.

In all states you are Aware of every fucking thing!

Its doesn't matter what you are aware of! But basically you are Aware, no matter what! Pure awareness.

The false "I" appears and disappears with feelings, emotions, thoughts etc. You constantly need to enquire and ask yourself "to whom all this"? 

To eventually break the identifications with this false sense of self, this false secondary "I" wich appear and disappear within you.

This practice is not about finding an answer, it's about being aware of awareness. It's about building your power with the knowledge of the self and rise above the illusions of egoic mind.

It's about finding your true nature as ever present peace and abide as who you are.

Yes, Yes, I've been observing and questioning to whom thoughts arise, who is the one feeling exhaustion etc.
For me it just basically loops back around again - they arise for me, and who am I? How do I know that I am me? It just ends exacthly where it starts from - me.

[TheSelf]

23 minutes ago, meow_meow said:

Yes, Yes, I've been observing and questioning to whom thoughts arise, who is the one feeling exhaustion etc.
For me it just basically loops back around again - they arise for me, and who am I? How do I know that I am me? It just ends exacthly where it starts from - me.

What's that which is aware of all this? basically anything you experience?

you need to ask yourself "what am I really"? can you be a thought? just a simple thought which arises within you? can you be a simple emotion? can you really? and if not what are you?

Edited February 20, 2021 by m0hsen

[Grateful Dead]

The Neti-Neti Methode is pretty cool I think but I haven't done it enough to say much about it.

[Forestluv]

To me, self inquiry is an advanced practice that I cannot force. It’s not like the process of building a house and producing a house. It’s more like sitting around relaxed and a question like “what is genuine?” arises and then entering a lucid dreamlike consciousness of exploration. Various insights are revealed, yet it’s not like I get a rock solid answer for “genuine”. It’s much more fluid than that. 

The inquiry of “who am I?”, never resonated much for me. Yet I can see how it would resonate with others. For me, sitting in ‘I AMness ‘ resonated much stronger. This has a more Beingness orientation, self inquiry can have a very thinking / answer driven orientation to an intellectual mind. 

In terms of inquiry, I would prefer a question like “who/what is aware of the question ‘who am I?”. And then dwell in that experience, rather than trying to answer the question. Trying to answer the question is within ‘me’, not a meta awareness of ‘me-ness’. 

[Gesundheit]

@meow_meow It seems to me that you are on the verge of something extraordinary. I would just make sure that I am not doing the practice mechanically. Now, if that is established, then probably the best route of action would be to surrender in meditation and allow awareness of the present moment to increase, and parallel to that, insights to arise. Epiphany, then, will spontaneously emerge from that foundation of presence, instead of the intellect that may be clouding the current experience.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Gesundheit

[flume]

Yes.

1) Drop self-inquiry

2) Do something pleasant instead 

 

[Nahm]

20 hours ago, meow_meow said:

Because over time it starts to feel like bashing against the wall, questioning "What am I?" Or dropping language and looking still ends up exactly where it starts, the one who looks, which is me, is me looking for me, but no explanation comes out of that, Who is I?

It’s not an cognitive explanation one is looking for with self inquiry, but a feeling. 

20 hours ago, meow_meow said:

So basically looping trough this the whole session becomes very very exhausting, takes more and more emotional labor.

Emotional labor is an adding of resistance, a pushing against, and or suppressing of emotion. The opposite of suppressing is expressing. Using the emotional scale is expressing the true nature and would be most effective before practicing self inquiry. Understanding emotion through the direct experience of expression, the true nature is revealed to always be arising effortlessly, like helium. To express is to align, and to know by feeling, the true effortless ‘helium’ like nature of being.

20 hours ago, meow_meow said:

What are your techniques to make this process easier or more pleasant?

Having a dreamboard. Being is the creator and you are not separate of this ‘dreamer’, so to speak. You didn’t come here to think incessantly, nor to figure anything out, but to relish in the experience of your creation. 

[nistake]

"Plain" self-inquiry never seemed appealing to me. I always found it was easy to fall into the trap of unnecessary emotional labor. It's as if you keep asking the usual self-inquiry questions and then you wait for logical/rational answers. And as you probably know, this is not how it works.

That's why I comined it with meditation. I basically meditated on the 'I am' or the sense of self in other words. As soon as a thought/emotion/answer/question/etc came up, I acknowledged it and returned to the sense of self.

[The0Self]

If you're still experiencing, find out who does it. Repeat. Whatever you experience is precisely not what you're looking for. Look away from experience -- allow attention to collapse back in on itself. It cannot be overstated just how simultaneously subtle and taxing this technique is. There is no rest in self inquiry, until you get to the witness. Just so you know, this isn't even mentioned until stage 8 TMI... That's 2 full stages after intentionally entering Jhana's becomes possible.

Self inquiry is a very, very advanced technique. It can be done on its own, but expect great difficulty without already having cultivated very stable attention and very powerful mindfulness, and more or less perfect general meditation skill. If you've never entered at least the first or second Jhana (you will know if you have, it's obscenely pleasant), I'd implore you to at least consider working on that first.

The "halfway point" of self inquiry is what some have called The Witness (Rob Burbea called it The Vastness of Awareness) -- it quite closely resembles the 6th Jhana, a state many are lucky to get to after many 10+ day retreats. Though I will say, the 6th Jhana does take quite a bit more work to get to than the witness. Even just doing standard noting for a solid hour or more at a time (about 1 note per second for the entire hour) at least once a day for a few weeks is actually somewhat likely to get you to the witness by itself, as long as you eventually tend toward looking at experience through a lens of not-self... so I'm definitely not saying it isn't very attainable -- it just might require you to take your practice to a new level and get a bit more diligent about it.

Edited February 21, 2021 by The0Self

[meow_meow]

8 hours ago, Nahm said:

Emotional labor is an adding of resistance, a pushing against, and or suppressing of emotion. The opposite of suppressing is expressing. Using the emotional scale is expressing the true nature and would be most effective before practicing self inquiry.

By saying "Practicing before self inquiry" Do you mean it like practice the expressing of emotions using emotional scale and when its practiced enough trough some period of time, like 3 months for example and only then start self inquiry? Or just to express emotions and start my self inquiry session?

 

1 hour ago, The0Self said:

If you've never entered at least the first or second Jhana (you will know if you have, it's obscenely pleasant), I'd implore you to at least consider working on that first.

I've been meditating for ~1.5 years and 10months from that period I've been doing it for 35 minutes daily, but I've only been practicing focusing on breath and watching thoghts and emotions that arise, letting them go and refocusing on breath & do nothing which is actually quite similar. Also I started self-inquriy quite early as it seems and I know I've been doing it spritually incorrect in the beginning for sure, but I really dont think that I'm doing it the wrong way for the past 4-5 months, I've had some unpleasant realisations doing it.

However I've never really gotten into "Jhanas." Would you suggest changing my meditation techniques and doing meditation some other way?

Edited February 21, 2021 by meow_meow

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, meow_meow said:

I've been meditating for ~1.5 years and 10months from that period I've been doing it for 35 minutes daily, but I've only been practicing focusing on breath and watching thoghts and emotions that arise, letting them go and refocusing on breath & do nothing which is actually quite similar. Also I started self-inquriy quite early as it seems and I know I've been doing it spritually incorrect in the beginning for sure, but I really dont think that I'm doing it the wrong way for the past 4-5 months, I've had some unpleasant realisations doing it.

However I've never really gotten into "Jhanas." Would you suggest changing my meditation techniques and doing meditation some other way?

Jhanas arise when the mind is very still, opposing intentions in the mind harmonize, and the result is out-of-this-world-intense bliss. It happens via both insight and concentration meditation, but mainly concentration -- not concentration as in sticking to the object, but through intentionally cultivating a sense of satisfaction every time you realize your attention is not as still on the object as you would like. No need to focus on the object to the exclusion of anything else, just allow your attention to rest on the object and your only intention at first should be to be on your toes to intentionally cultivate a sense of satisfaction every time you realize your attention is not as still on the object as you would like. Eventually mind will still itself and rest on the object -- because eventually from doing this, the awareness of the quality of your attention never goes away, and becomes monitored in real time and under conscious control. And then those competing intentions in the back of your mind (imperceptible) will calm down and you'll see what they were inadvertently covering up -- intense overwhelming satisfaction.

It is unlikely to reach jhana without at least 45 minute sits every day -- preferably 1-2 hours.

If you begin to feel a very intense pleasant body buzz, often (but not always) beginning in the hands or sometimes the face/smile or chest, ignore it and continue the breath/etc meditation until the buzz is impossible to ignore, then shift your attention in one motion to the buzz itself... it will dissipate or get stronger. If it gets stronger, you will soon be in the 1st jhana, at which point it's all over -- you're officially addicted to meditation, lol. The 2nd jhana (doing the same thing except switching your awareness from the buzz to the happiness it brings) is even better, and so on up to the 8th jhana.

The first time you enter jhana it may scare you. That's normal. It won't hurt you. The pleasure is so intense you might feel like you can't breathe. Just be aware that's normal.

 

Rather useless info, until later:

Entering 3rd jhana: happiness -> peace (the rapturous buzz that is central to the 1st jhana and peripheral to the 2nd jhana disappears entirely -- happiness without the buzz that it seemed to arise from = peace)

4th: peace -> beautiful stillness (abandoning pleasure for something more exalted)

5th: stillness -> boundless space

6th: boundless space -> boundless consciousness (this is an incredibly intense mystical experience)

7th: boundless consciousness -> perception of nothingness

8th: perception of nothingness -> mind not landing on anything, not even nothingness

Nirvana: lights out; perceived after the fact as a gap, like jumping forward in time with no space in between.

Edited February 21, 2021 by The0Self

[Nahm]

35 minutes ago, meow_meow said:

By saying "Practicing before self inquiry" Do you mean it like practice the expressing of emotions using emotional scale and when its practiced enough trough some period of time, like 3 months for example and only then start self inquiry? Or just to express emotions and start my self inquiry session?

Maybe a week to a month would be my guess, but it’s more about the emptying & expressing than a time frame of course. Express enough, and ya might not even see the practice of self inquiry the same way.

 

[meow_meow]

On 2021.02.21. at 11:02 PM, The0Self said:

Jhanas arise when the mind is very still, opposing intentions in the mind harmonize, and the result is out-of-this-world-intense bliss. It happens via both insight and concentration meditation, but mainly concentration -- not concentration as in sticking to the object, but through intentionally cultivating a sense of satisfaction every time you realize your attention is not as still on the object as you would like. No need to focus on the object to the exclusion of anything else, just allow your attention to rest on the object and your only intention at first should be to be on your toes to intentionally cultivate a sense of satisfaction every time you realize your attention is not as still on the object as you would like. Eventually mind will still itself and rest on the object -- because eventually from doing this, the awareness of the quality of your attention never goes away, and becomes monitored in real time and under conscious control. And then those competing intentions in the back of your mind (imperceptible) will calm down and you'll see what they were inadvertently covering up -- intense overwhelming satisfaction.

It is unlikely to reach jhana without at least 45 minute sits every day -- preferably 1-2 hours.

If you begin to feel a very intense pleasant body buzz, often (but not always) beginning in the hands or sometimes the face/smile or chest, ignore it and continue the breath/etc meditation until the buzz is impossible to ignore, then shift your attention in one motion to the buzz itself... it will dissipate or get stronger. If it gets stronger, you will soon be in the 1st jhana, at which point it's all over -- you're officially addicted to meditation, lol. The 2nd jhana (doing the same thing except switching your awareness from the buzz to the happiness it brings) is even better, and so on up to the 8th jhana.

The first time you enter jhana it may scare you. That's normal. It won't hurt you. The pleasure is so intense you might feel like you can't breathe. Just be aware that's normal.

 

Rather useless info, until later:

Entering 3rd jhana: happiness -> peace (the rapturous buzz that is central to the 1st jhana and peripheral to the 2nd jhana disappears entirely -- happiness without the buzz that it seemed to arise from = peace)

4th: peace -> beautiful stillness (abandoning pleasure for something more exalted)

5th: stillness -> boundless space

6th: boundless space -> boundless consciousness (this is an incredibly intense mystical experience)

7th: boundless consciousness -> perception of nothingness

8th: perception of nothingness -> mind not landing on anything, not even nothingness

Nirvana: lights out; perceived after the fact as a gap, like jumping forward in time with no space in between.

Woah I've been on this self-help, enlightenment jorney for 1,5 year solid and it's my first time reading this. Thanks, I'll def shift my meditation to this technique.