Why aren't we using the 9 Stages Of Ego Development model?

[Gesundheit]

Hello all!

I've just finished watching Leo's series for the first time. I find the model insanely accurate. And it seems to provide a lot of potential for us as highly developed/wise people.

But now, I'm wondering, why is it not discussed or even talked about at all here?

Right near the end of the series:

Leo said that he will start referring to it more with time than to Spiral Dynamics, because the latter is more focused on the collective, contrary to the former. The video has been out since September, 13th. So it's been almost half a year since.

Personally, I have watched the series once, and read part of the original paper. I don't think I have enough understanding of the model yet, as in I still can't explain it to another person perfectly, but I can work with what I currently have, given that I have a good understanding of Spiral Dynamics.

What are your excuses for not updating your framework into including this model?

And, @Leo Gura Why do you seem to still prefer SD?

[bejapuskas]

I think some excuses might include that this model is more difficult to remember, it is not simply colours. I can also see how it is easier for judgemental people to use Spiral Dynamics for devilish purposes than the Cook-Greuter one.

[Leo Gura]

Because no one will know what I'm talking about when I use the Cook-Greuter labels. Most of my followers are at least familiar with the Spiral colors by now.

The more accurate a model is the less accessible it is.

I try to keep my work as jargon-free as possible so I don't like introducing of bunch of new terminology.

[Carl-Richard]

16 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

What are your excuses for not updating your framework into including this model?

Why haven't you updated your vocabulary to complex systems theory?

You only want to talk with yourself? 

[Gesundheit]

@bejapuskas Yep. That makes sense.

@Leo Gura We can start referring to it through SD by association. For example, we can use The Achiever stage when referring to stage Orange by linking the two concepts together. You said that you want us to separate our understanding of SD from Greuter's, but just to get everyone on board, I think some association here and there won't hurt. I will start applying this myself.

[Rilles]

I've only watched the series once, will need to watch it again to integrate it into my vocabulary. 

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

We can start referring to it through SD by association.

What - are you some kind of social engineer?  What are your motives?

[Gesundheit]

@Rilles I would read the paper instead.

@Carl-Richard We can use the model as an alternative so that new possibilities may open up. For example, we can start contemplating the same questions that we have been already contemplating with SD, and then new fresh insights might come up. We can try to understand why regression happens through this new lens. We can ask more specific questions about certain topics. There are lots of possibilities that come up with each new concept. And it will be beneficial for all of us to use the framework as such. Besides, our minds will naturally stop being limited to SD anymore, so it can be a good tier two practice.

[Rilles]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

I would read the paper instead.

I like audio.

 

But hey, I can read the paper too. Good idea.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Rilles

[Happy Lizard]

@Leo Gura  the way I see it, spiral dynamics model is more global and cultural, it's good for an alien to know what spiral dynamic is as a first model to help them understand humanity and the way people have evolved, in order for them to be more capable of finding the ones who they'd be safer to interact with.

9SED is more focused on egos, the way ego loses its attachments and find new ways of reflecting on itself and others. I find it more accurate when concerned with people's way of cognition rather than their world view. With enough experience and study one can start scanning for words such as "always" "everyone" for stage stage3, or equally develop a sense for how complex the target's speech and word choices are, enabling the observer to infer (or at least use elimination) to find the target's 9SED level.

[Hello from Russia]

Because it's hella of a fun to label people with colors and EDT doesn't have these

Edited February 20, 2021 by Hello from Russia

[EddieEddie1995]

We will, we will! 

[Carl-Richard]

57 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

We can use the model as an alternative so that new possibilities may open up. 

There ain't gonna be no "we" unless you have some spectacular plan you haven't revealed yet. Leading by example ain't gonna cut it. 

 

57 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Besides, our minds will naturally stop being limited to SD anymore, so it can be a good tier two practice.

Why limit yourself to just ego developmental theory? Why not start using all the jargon from all the subfields of complex systems theory? That would truly be a tier two practice  But you ain't gonna do the work and neither will other people.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[EddieEddie1995]

19 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

There ain't gonna be no "we" unless you have some spectacular plan you haven't revealed yet. Leading by example ain't gonna cut it.

Im gonna talk about it in my YT channel (Im working on it), but first I need to learn more about it...

Im going to target Actualized.org, its gonna be dope! 

Edited February 20, 2021 by EddieEddie1995

[EddieEddie1995]

22 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

That would truly be a tier two practice  

Tier two has a huge spectrum, depends what you mean by doing the work

[Carl-Richard]

53 minutes ago, EddieEddie1995 said:

Tier two has a huge spectrum

Yeah duh!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_system

 

53 minutes ago, EddieEddie1995 said:

depends what you mean by doing the work

People tend to get the idea that Tier 2 is just a way your mind operates. Oh no - there is an entire field of study out there that resonates at that frequency. In that sense, doing the work can mean either 1. actually study complex systems or 2. do self-improvement. Both are useful, both are hard. My point is don't expect too much from an open forum  

Edited February 20, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit]

@Rilles It seems worth it. I've noticed different angles for understanding in the original paper.

@Happy Lizard Nicely put ??

[Gesundheit]

2 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

Because it's hella of a fun to label people with colors and EDT doesn't have these

Good. Now let go of these excuses and get to work 

@EddieEddie1995 Hey, yo! Where's the link to your channel?

@Carl-Richard Noted. Won't expect much lol.

[Vision]

Maybe because it only covers the Upper Left Quadrant of Ken Wilber's AQAL theory as it's based solely on ego development. Spiral Dynamics can be applied to all quadrants if I'm not mistaken. 

[Gesundheit]

@Vision Damn! It's the first time I hear of AQAL, and it seems complex. Could you suggest something to help me get started on it?