Leo... Holy F*ck!

[Leo Gura]

@pole553 "Drugs" is just an arbitrary label you invented. What were are actually talking about are chemicals and specifically neurotransmitters. Psychedelics are not drugs. They are neurotransmitters. Makes no difference whether they are endogenous or not. Just like it makes no difference when you eat food whether the chemicals in the food are endogenous. If those chemicals are of the right kind, they will still improve your health.

There is a ton of validated research studies on the horrific effects of heavy metals like lead and mercury on brain function and its development. Google it.

Heavy metal toxicity causes autoimmune diseases, autism, ADD, cancer, and a bunch of other nasty things.

There is no safe level of heavy metals. Even if you have a little bit, it ruins your body's performance.

[pole553]

@Leo Gura It's not a label I invented, it's a term you used upon which I'm correcting you, thus the necessity of proof lies on you bud. The whole statement is just absurdly false.  Neurotransmitter, by definition, implies something that is pre-synthesized and released by a neuron to continue endogenous signalling. Psychedelics are not neurotransmitters, just like ECT, exogenous application of neuromodulators or a simple electrode down your cortex does not imply simplicity and causality of utilization.

' Just like it makes no difference when you eat food whether the chemicals in the food are endogenous.'

That statement makes sense, how else would you consume food if not through exogenous chemicals, that is the whole point of eating, dude. What are you comparing food to in this twisted logic?

Hold up just a second, you just implied heavy metal levels to levels of consciousness. That has naught to do with 'brain function' as a whole; while metal level was found correlated with levels of irritability and some cognitive disfunction, the risk levels are relatively insignificant comparing to other risk factors as a whole. 

On top of that, what is your claim of 'heavy metal poisoning' even correlating with? Dude was talking about drug clarity, where you compared brain as a complexion of drugs, and implied some other substances affect that.

So what determines the normal homeostasis, if by your definition, any application of an exogenous substance is normal? The entirety of your argument falls apart, mate

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, pole553 said:

Neurotransmitter, by definition, implies something that is pre-synthesized and released by a neuron to continue endogenous signalling. Psychedelics are not neurotransmitters, just like ECT, exogenous application of neuromodulators or a simple electrode down your cortex does not imply simplicity and causality of utilization.

Yes, the term “neurotransmitter” may suggest an endogenous molecule in some scientifc circles.. Yet if you really have a background in neuroscience, you should be well aware that you are playing a pedantic game of semantics that is partially inaccurate. For all practical purposes, psychedelics are neurotransmitters, both in structure and function. LSD is a better agonist for serotonin pathways than serotonin,

You are missing the underlying concepts because you are too rigid with terms. It doesn’t matter if a molecule is endogenously produced or exogenously consumed. It’s all part of the cellular biology. A serotonin receptor does not care about labels of “endogenous” or “exogenous”. That serotonin receptor will bind either LSD or serotonin, which then transmits an intracellular response within the post-synaptic neuron. 

[Leo Gura]

@pole553 You are committing the naturalistic fallacy. That is all.

Your attitude is of one who is not here to learn but to defend your dogmas.

[Flowerfaeiry]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

mushrooms are one of the least clear psychedelics.

What do you mean by that? The insights and experiences I've had on mushrooms felt very clear to me. 

[UNZARI]

6 hours ago, pole553 said:

I don't doubt you've gained personal insight, that is what psychedelics are for, and they're astounding in the exploration of the dreamworld of your mind. And they are beautiful in their own right. Yet after extensive use, one comes to realize they present an obstacle in themselves.

And the pursuit is what continues the futility of dissatisfaction 

Ultimately I don’t see your point because I only take psychedelics at the very most every 3 months, and every trip presents deeper clarity in different areas of my life. In fact I could take them every 3 months for the rest of my life and never not learn something. I don’t take them for pleasure  or some sort of satisfaction per se, but to open up my mind if it’s become stiff because of the stresses of life. 
 

It’s not like after i take mushrooms the next day all I’m thinking about is taking them again so I can receive some sort of “god clairty”. In reality Sometimes I don’t ever want to trip again Lol.

Edited February 21, 2021 by UNZARI

[Loving Radiance]

4 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Quote

mushrooms are one of the least clear psychedelics.

What do you mean by that? The insights and experiences I've had on mushrooms felt very clear to me. 

Meaning their twisted nature. Ime I too had clear realizations but the thing is that they melt away like a dream.

 

Quote

In reality Sometimes I don’t ever want to trip again Lol.

@UNZARI That is the difference between psychedelics and drugs. Drugs, "I want more, more, more." Psychs, "Bro, that was too much."

Edited February 21, 2021 by Loving Radiance

[Snader]

@pole553 @Leo Gura Spare my sacred thread from your stupid debate! 

[Snader]

5 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

What do you mean by that? The insights and experiences I've had on mushrooms felt very clear to me. 

For some individuals I think shrooms can work clearer. According to trip reports I've read most experience it a bit less clean anyway.

If I personally compare it to LSD it's really different. LSD experience feels so much cleaner and subtle giving me capacity to observe and experience while shrooms affect me so differently not only mentally and spiritually but also physically. Damn, shrooms suck up all my energy so I can barely stand on my feet while tripping.

[pole553]

@Leo Gura The irony and lack of self-awareness in your post is frankly speaking hilarious. Good retort, sounds smart without actually saying anything. 

I now get why you don't debate. Because your argumentation is poor, you automatically assume a position of authority while not replying to anything. Shit, that requires skill 

[Bogdan]

@pole553 the thing is that you're not open, and there are tons of people who want to debate Leo like you do every day, which would be totally pointless and a waste of time, as i don't see you opening up anytime soon..

[Flowerfaeiry]

9 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

Meaning their twisted nature. Ime I too had clear realizations but the thing is that they melt away like a dream.

Hmm I'm not sure about that. At least for me. I've worked with mushrooms a lot, particularly micro dose but I've had a few high dose trips. I feel the complete opposite of this statement. In fact I've always said, what I like so much about mushrooms is that the lessons really stick with me. It's like they get into my body. Some of my most integrated trips come from mushrooms, so I find it interesting you have that assessment. 

[Scholar]

8 hours ago, pole553 said:

@Leo Gura The irony and lack of self-awareness in your post is frankly speaking hilarious. Good retort, sounds smart without actually saying anything. 

I now get why you don't debate. Because your argumentation is poor, you automatically assume a position of authority while not replying to anything. Shit, that requires skill 

To be fair, I did notice this too. I think Leo sometimes just doesn't take the time to properly engage because it would be too much effort, but that can often lead him to dismiss others with this authoritative vibe where really he didn't even engage with what was being said.

I don't know how this applies in this thread, but I definitely felt misunderstood and strawmanned by Leo quite a few times in the past on this forum. Maybe it's the nature of the way he interacts with us here.

It would be nice though if he could sometimes put in a bit more effort to understand others.

[Loving Radiance]

28 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Hmm I'm not sure about that. At least for me. I've worked with mushrooms a lot, particularly micro dose but I've had a few high dose trips. I feel the complete opposite of this statement. In fact I've always said, what I like so much about mushrooms is that the lessons really stick with me. It's like they get into my body. Some of my most integrated trips come from mushrooms, so I find it interesting you have that assessment. 

What the rollercoaster was about doesn't stick around... like the story of a dream. Thoughts are twisted and lessons are clear, lessons even get repeated like a motive reappearing in a movie to drill down a point.

Hm, maybe we are talking about different things Of course we are, but we imagine we don't.

[Flowerfaeiry]

4 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

What the rollercoaster was about doesn't stick around... like the story of a dream. Thoughts are twisted and lessons are clear, lessons even get repeated like a motive reappearing in a movie to drill down a point.

Hm, maybe we are talking about different things Of course we are, but we imagine we don't.

Every time I take mushrooms the trip gives me a new lesson. I always expect it to be a certain type of way and then it's like nope we're doing this today instead. 

[UNZARI]

@Loving Radiance lmao I knowwww

[Vibroverse]

LoA in action. Bang bang. 

[This]

On 21.2.2021 at 0:37 PM, pole553 said:

@Leo Gura The irony and lack of self-awareness in your post is frankly speaking hilarious. Good retort, sounds smart without actually saying anything. 

I now get why you don't debate. Because your argumentation is poor, you automatically assume a position of authority while not replying to anything. Shit, that requires skill 

Let me try. You can't possibly imagine absolute infinite infinitudes, god is this and god is that, you need to develop your consciousness, you clearly are stage X. You are yet not aware or conscious enough. You can't possibly imagine what x is. You don't understand what i mean. Your awakening isn't complete. You need to open your mind. You need to read a book about microbiology. You need to, you cant, you have to, you aren't good enough. etc. etc. 

Shit, maybe i should start a youtube channel

 

 

 

 

[pole553]

@Bogdan Lad I'm perfectly open, Leo misuses terms to assume superiority and refuses to acknowledge anything but his 'perfect purist' view which has nothing to do with reality

[pole553]

@This Exactly this, sounds like I've heard this somewehere before

I've been observing Leo for a few months now, and the guy has a clear narcissistic complex he reflects on this forum. I don't think he means harm, he's actually done a lot of good, but hiding his clearly dangerous views behind a shitty youtube disclaimer to cover his ass just screams hipocrisy. There's no sincerity, there's no compassion to him if there's an alternate view to be explored. Now y'all can claim I'm not 'woke' enough, but how do you know anything about my POV? What if I've done 5meo hundreds of times and simply taken out other conclusions?

Leo implants an idea, an expectation of what the experience should be, which gently attentuates your own experience, where you seek a confirmation bias of what Holy Man Leo said is true. The 'truth' I suspect is true is Leo, the poor chap, has unresolved trauma, as can be seen through his limited interactions with others, on videos (PUA - yeah, sure, he just screams public confidence) and this whole shenanigan conundrum of spirituality is one of the greatest examples of spiritual bypassing I've ever seen to avoid his problems or gain attention. Plus its a damn good business model