False Psychedelic Bliss?

[mandyjw]

@zeroISinfinity Honey, you're mansplaining yourself. 

I don't really give a fuck about the answers. I just love how the questions feel. 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, actualizing25 said:

All enlightened beings are saying that your true nature(=Truth) is peace, joy, happiness. 

By that criteria, only beings that say "true nature (=Truth) is peace, joy, happiness" can be considered "enlightened".

Humans want to feel good and have strong aversions to feeling bad. They are more interested in relative feel good truths than absolute truths that include both "good" and "bad". For example, One can say absolute Love is Everything - including peace, joy, happiness as well as hatred, murder, rape and torture. Such a person will not be considered an "enlightened being" by most people. No one will attend their "spiritual" retreats. Not only that, they will face immense backlash for saying murder, rape and torture is Love. They will be misunderstood, stigmatized and marginalized. They may get abused and locked up in a psychiatric ward. From a human perspective, there are incentives to keep certain aspects of Truth on the down-low and focus on the feel good aspects of Truth, such as relative feelings of peace, joy, happiness, inspiration etc. This will attract people and they can expand greatly pursuing feel good aspects of Truth.

Imagine someone facing two doors: for Door #1, they know there is a truth that will feel blissful. For door #2, they don't know what the truth will reveal. It may feel blissful, yet it also may feel bad. It may be terrorizing and cause them pain for weeks. The vast majority of people would go for door #1. There is nothing wrong with this as there is infinite amount of exploration along the blissful dimension. Yet it is a subset of Truth. . . At the personal / human level, there is no problem if the person is naturally flowing with door #1s and naturally flowing away from door #2s. Just like a flowing river has no problem. They live a life that would be considered by humans to be a "good life". The problem occurs if one is attached to door #1's and avoiding door #2s because the attachment and avoidance doesn't feel good and they desire to feel good. It becomes a negative feedback loop. 

Another way we could frame it would be "why do enlightened beings only discuss a subset of Truth? Are they aware of this? Should we consider them 'enlightened'?". I'm not saying this is the objectively correct framing. Rather, it removes underlying assumptions from the initial framing and introduces a new set of underlying assumptions.

[zeroISinfinity]

16 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@zeroISinfinity Honey, you're mansplaining yourself. 

I don't really give a fuck about the answers. I just love how the questions feel. 

Ok my lady.I am sorry, just that's how I am. Rub your nose type of guy haha. Never fan favorite I know but... 

[SpiritualAwakening]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You're not chasing that bliss, you're simply becoming conscious of Absolute Truth and the bliss is just a side-effect of that.

Amen

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics are not about bliss, they are about increasing one's consciousness. That he doesn't get this is sad.

Amen

[Someone here]

31 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Humans want to feel good and have strong aversions to feeling bad. They are more interested in relative feel good truths than absolute truths that include both "good" and "bad". For example, One can say absolute Love is Everything - including peace, joy, happiness as well as hatred, murder, rape and torture. Such a person will not be considered an "enlightened being" by most people. No one will attend their "spiritual" retreats. Not only that, they will face immense backlash for saying murder, rape and torture is Love. They will be misunderstood, stigmatized and marginalized. They may get abused and locked up in a psychiatric ward. From a human perspective, there are incentives to keep certain aspects of Truth on the down-low and focus on the feel good aspects of Truth, such as relative feelings of peace, joy, happiness, inspiration etc. This will attract people and they can expand greatly pursuing feel good aspects of Truth.

Exactly.  I never bought the notion that Truth =love and goodness (exclusively). It just doesn't match with straight up "reality". So when a Guru is preaching that "happiness is your true nature".. Don't they know that life includes cruelty and (sometimes) unimaginable amount of suffering and misery?  You wouldn't expect such wise people to be blind to that. I guess it has to do with "you create your own reality" type of thing. So Truth can be whatever you insist on imagining It is. 

[Eren Eeager]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Never

What kind of fool do you take me for?

What??!!

This made me confused.

I have always sought the Truth because it feels good, If God doesn't equal Bliss then How does it even be? 

If the Truth doesn't feel good, who will seek it? 

[Vibroverse]

Whatever, it is all just words. We're all searching for happiness and peace whether we accept it or not, no matter how original we're trying to be. 

[actualizing25]

@Vibroverse @Vibroverse Leo is always denying that.

[Carl-Richard]

"There is only one you" yet he says it's not him. 

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Eren Eeager said:

Isn't the Truth = Bliss?

Isn't LSD = heroin? 

[Vibroverse]

30 minutes ago, actualizing25 said:

@Vibroverse @Vibroverse Leo is always denying that.

Denying that must be feeling good to him. 

[How to be wise]

4 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@Leo Gura What's the difference between Love and Bliss? Not the thought of it, but the experience?

Getting raped is Love. But is it bliss?

[mandyjw]

@How to be wise When you imagine yourself to be a body and a character you're also free to imagine all kinds of horrible things happening to them, or to imagine them doing horrible things. Realizing the very Source of this freedom is bliss. This freedom never forces itself on you though, you have to go to it willingly. And being away from it, imagining yourself as nothing but a vulnerable or bad or in whatever way lacking character, that hurts like hell. Cause that's not what you really are. 

[Nahm]

On 2/18/2021 at 4:10 PM, Bogdan said:

infinity/God are not thoughts.

Right on. Went with the book analogy since there aren’t really “thoughts”. 

[How to be wise]

29 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

that hurts like hell.

That pain is itself Love, because Love does not exclude any feeling. But it’s hard to call that pain bliss, wouldn’t you agree?

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, pole553 said:

How do you know you experience the Truth and not your mind's interpretation of what truth is? Neuroscience showed psychedelics acting akin to dream-states through theta wave induction - how does one know this isn't the entire effect and our primate brain is tricked by it?

Isn't claiming to know the Truth a bit pedantic considering the scope of human experience?  

Well, you need to open your mind to the possibility of accessing raw, absolute truth unmediated by any interprations or perceptions or science or anything.

Pure TRUTH exists. You can access it. But you cannot access it while believing in science, brains, perception, and other such nonsense.

13 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@Leo Gura What's the difference between Love and Bliss? Not the thought of it, but the experience? Is Love not Consciousness Itself? Is Truth a thought? 

Love and Truth is everything that every could be experienced. But bliss is like a feeling. It comes and goes. Most of your life will not be spent in feelings of bliss. Even if you are being tortured it is Truth/Love, but not bliss.

12 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

@Leo Gura Then why are all the gurus saying that your true nature is peace/happiness? So they are lying?

All enlightened beings are saying that your true nature(=Truth) is peace, joy, happiness. 

Yes, your true nature is peace because it is Nothing. Happiness is more of an emotion that comes and goes.

[Willie]

Bliss is just a feeling. A fantastic example of impermanence. Truth doesn’t care about your feelings.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Willie said:

Bliss is just a feeling. A fantastic example of impermanence. Truth doesn’t care about your feelings.

But bliss is still you.