Can birds experience infinite love?

[Moksha]

@ilja What do you "think" Tolle is trying to teach?

[Vibroverse]

Animals are nothing in the most positive sense of the word. 

[ilja]

@Vibroverse yes yes we all heard that.

 

@Moksha peace of mind

[Vibroverse]

You clearly didn't really hear that. 

[StarStruck]

30 minutes ago, Moksha said:

It's a continuum. More thought = more suffering, as long as you identify with your thoughts. When you rise above them, they are no longer a problem.

That is what I'm trying to be. Just be the observer and use intuition to enfold.

 

32 minutes ago, Moksha said:

The purpose of life is to experience the dream, and ultimately learn to live lucidly within the dream, by realizing and manifesting yourself as Love, as Consciousness, as God.

Does that answer my question about LP and being versus doing?

[Forestluv]

It depends on our creation of an "experience" and "infinite love". 

We could say that there is One experiencer that is experiencing Everything as infinite love. Here, dissolving separation reveals the infinite love "experienced" by One. Oneness = Everything = Experience = Love. 

We could also say that there are separate entities having relative experiences. Here, we would need to decide what counts as "experience". Does a rock experience? Does an amoeba? A tree? A dog? . . . Does a bird experience a subset of all experience possible? Does a human? . . What counts as "infinite love".

We could also say that there is juxtaposition of both. That form is formless and can fluctuate as both. For example, One Love is revealed (Me) and then there is creation of a separate entity (me) that "experiences" "love" and reflects upon "love". "Wow, I just had an amazing experience of infinite love. I wonder if birds can experience that at well". 

[Moksha]

22 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

That is what I'm trying to be. Just be the observer and use intuition to enfold.

Does that answer my question about LP and being versus doing?

You are on a good path. Realizing yourself as the observer of your thoughts, rather than identifying with them, will help ground you in presence. You will reach the point where you are in this state of awareness, even while doing. There will be more spaciousness, more creativity, and more love in your life. That is what I mean by dreaming lucidly. Enjoy the dream, realizing that it will end one day. Whether dreaming or not, the essence of You can never be threatened.

[StarStruck]

3 hours ago, Moksha said:

You are on a good path. Realizing yourself as the observer of your thoughts, rather than identifying with them, will help ground you in presence. You will reach the point where you are in this state of awareness, even while doing. There will be more spaciousness, more creativity, and more love in your life. That is what I mean by dreaming lucidly. Enjoy the dream, realizing that it will end one day. Whether dreaming or not, the essence of You can never be threatened.

I feel like there is no way back.

 

[Moksha]

20 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

I feel like there is no way back.

There is no way forward, either. There is only Now. Why not make it the most beautiful Now it can be? Stillness. Awareness. Freedom from thought. Just being. Focus on the energy field that connects you with the bird in your original post. The bird's peace is found in presence, and you can feel the same presence. The Consciousness of us all is the same. Is it better to maintain the illusion of separation and suffering, or to realize our true nature as Love?

[SamueLSD]

15 hours ago, Moksha said:

Animals don't suffer, because they live in the present moment. Don't confuse suffering and pain. Everything can experience pain, but suffering is different. It is self-inflicted.

An abused dog certainly has no choice to be anxious and depressed. 

And how can you say they live in the present moment? They experience time similar to us, anticipate events, get anxious over certain things, can be traumatised etc.

Furthermore, how would you know? Have you experienced the mind of a dog? Can you even be sure they have no thoughts at all? Are all thoughts we experience in the form of language / internal monologue? No. Animals certainly have imagination, there is some evidence that dogs do indeed dream. So maybe they do 'think', just not as we know it. In fact, I'd say they almost certainly do.

It would be correct to say " they are more present ", as they don't have tangled webs of belief and egoic thought like us. 

Animals aren't so different from us - in fact - humans are animals.

 

20 hours ago, vibv said:

I don‘t think so. What about your (infinite) past?

if you count that as illusory (which it is) then you can‘t be tainted at all.

I think you misunderstood my point. 

[SamueLSD]

15 hours ago, Moksha said:

 Humans complain about current reality, as if complaining or refusing to acknowledge what is makes any positive difference. It doesn't, it only needs to unnecessary suffering.

Such is survival. Suffering is inherent.

Animals 'complain' / resist reality too, in their own ways. You should see how my husky howls and scratches at the door at night when I leave her outside, lol. Exactly like a child. 

Many animals experience grief after the death of an offspring. It is short lived compared to us humans, but it is still there.  

I think you're forgetting how primitive the mind of animals is. 

[Osaid]

Animals are simply more intuitive and less in the mind, like human babies. Their minds are significantly less sophisticated. 

 

[blackchair]

we are all one, even rock can experience infinite love.

[flowboy]

All this is projection. There's no way to tell what an animal is experiencing based on what you see it do. It might have infinitely more complex thoughts than us. If it did, it might decide in its infinite wisdom to behave exactly like its body tells it to, without inhibition or judgment. Just like we are trying to achieve by being present to the moment and loving what is. Or it might not even experience time linearly, but perhaps know every moment of their life from the start already. We just can't tell.

In the same way we can't tell what another human is experiencing. We like to look at facial expressions, listen to mouth noises and create a mental model of what is going on in the other's subjective experience. We agree on mouth noises to be associated with other mouth noises, in a big network of meaning that all points back to your own subjective experience when you learnt that word. So that we can pretend to understand the other person, but we don't. There is no way.

[Moksha]

7 hours ago, SamueLSD said:

It would be correct to say " they are more present ", as they don't have tangled webs of belief and egoic thought like us. 

Animals aren't so different from us - in fact - humans are animals.

I agree with you. As I said earlier, it is a continuum. Thought is the source of suffering. The more a being is capable of thinking, the deeper its suffering can be.

That said, humans aren't unavoidably at the mercy of our minds. Consciousness has created the human form to be advanced enough for Self-awareness, i.e., Consciousness can realize itself through us. When that happens, the mind becomes the instrument, rather than the master.

[SamueLSD]

@Moksha