Nonorigination and Nirvana

[Origins]

@deci belle I believe I may have reached nirvana now. Purity of mind.

I achieved/achieve this by scrambling consciousnesses signal by self inducing a psychedelic state through the imagination alone. After I self induce (so no actual physical drugs as assistants) this state it's as if I've never experienced this reality before other than my memories to it. I'll investigate this further, perhaps its very easy to achieve and I'm just lucky to have stumbled upon something not many people have. Of course, you do need to have a mind that's practiced in the art of imagination to at least some extent as well as knowing how to scramble the contents of consciousness through the use of focused (chaotic) imagination.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Origins

[deci belle]

I'm not sure about it because if the person is the experiencer in terms of ultimate authentic experience, that's not it. Why? Because there is no person. If it's you who is accomplishing by actions and momentum, that basically proves that whatever you're accomplishing isn't it.

On one level, these things are cumulative, as long as potential is not leaked habitually. Nevertheless, it's not a matter of "progress."

Whatever the nature of the experiencing, just avoid anticipatory consciousness, which strengthens the very thing that obstructs nonpsychological clarification.

The deal is, the nature of reality is already complete, perfect and selflessly unified; that's one's inherent identity right now, so realizing this in terms of this shouldn't (can't) be dealt with by virtue of an instrument as crude as the psychological apparatus— simply because its operative function obscures reality.

Awakening to nonpsychological awareness and nurturing its subtle function requires self-refining processes which serve to reform and revert the psychological apparatus (reversing its development) into its original supporting role (to nonpsychicological functionality).

Sudden realization should be seen as a naturally occurring validation/proof of the foregoing self-refinement instead of a bulldozing effort to arrive at a predetermined experiential parameter. Taoism says to refine the self (first) and await the time (of proof).

Strive to activate the mind without dwelling on its contents in terms of the scene before your eyes, and activate the natural subtly adaptive impersonal function by seeing through phenomena without denying their characteristics. That's dealing with things as they are without employing "belief" in their existence.

The only reason I say this is because in the aftermath of the sudden, it's all you will be doing anyway.

 

 

ed note: add last line

Edited February 24, 2021 by deci belle

[The0Self]

The jhanas will help you understand nirvana. Noting can actually get you to it as well -- I mean serious noting for hours at a time, every single second. Objectifying every sensation like the mere experience that it is, causing your mind to get tired of experience, and incline to nirvana. When nirvana happens, it is perceived after the fact as a gap -- you jump forward in time as if that space didn't exist. You can never enter nirvana -- its value lies in the experience of the last thing the mind does before nirvana appears: the mind stops projecting, and immediately there is nirvana, revealing the emptiness of experience.

Nirvana is extraneous to the realization of emptiness (awakening), but they often go hand in hand.

Edited February 24, 2021 by The0Self

[deci belle]

Good observation by The0Self. Taoism calls the experience of the sudden "interrupting" consciousness, because, as The0Self says, it's a gap.

The problem with the above observation is that nirvana is not limited to "cessation" in terms of the absolute. Nirvana is itself nonorigination in terms of the nature of Mind. Your mind. Your mind right now. Nonorigination, if The0Self would have actually read and understood the OP, is that nonorigination is expressed as enlightening activity in that, IN TERMS OF ENLIGHTENING ACTIVITY, one's deluded mentality of self-reflected psychological patterning IN THE MIDST OF CREATION is "nonoriginated" in real time, not merely in terms of the absolute during an instantaneous mystical glimpse of one's abstracted nature of awareness.

PEOPLE— ENLIGHTENING BEING IS NOT THE ABSOLUTE. FORGET THE ABSOLUTE. YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO EXPRESS THE FUNCTION OF NONORIGINATION IN THE MIDST OF DELUSIONAL REALMS OR ENLIGHTENMENT IS POINTLESS. NIRVANA DEFINED AS CESSATION OF CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOT WORTH MENTIONING.

It's like your enlightening potential is a muscle. First, you need to realize you "have" it. Then, you actually have to exercise it!! You have to do the work or the foregone "accomplishment" is in VAIN.

It must now be obvious that there are plenty of so-called enlightened individuals sloshing around who have absolutely no idea of the actual application of enlightenment to conditions void of self-reifying pattern awareness. Why do I say that? Because NO ONE talks about that. This is the meaning of the saying "if you know but can't act on that knowledge, it is the same as not knowing."

And if you don't act on that knowledge, you can't describe it the way I have been doing since 2008. I was silent about such knowledge for 15 years BEFORE I actually started describing it— so that means I've been sitting on this since 1992. No internet to dilute and aggrandize imagined said accomplishment. I never had anyone to tell, much less ask. What an amazing bit of good fortune. Who can just sit on any kind of experiential event nowadays? hahahahhahhaaaa!!

All anyone ever chimes in about is a glimpse of the absolute. No one (except me) ever ventures to express the reality of transcendent REALITY in terms of actually adapting potential to conditions. It's not that big a deal, really— but no one else writes about it. No one ever mentions transcendent functioning defined by Suchness, because no one seems to actually know about subtle spiritual adaption which simply does not depend on sudden realization.

In my case, such subtle spiritual adaption to conditions was just how I carried out situational accord in reality for years before the sudden occurred. I didn't have ambitions or even any idea of "triggering" transcendent experience outside the body. I never knew it was a thing. What do I know?

 

 

ed note: add "It's like your enlightening potential is a muscle. First, you need to realize you "have" it. Then, you actually have to exercise it!! You have to do the work or the foregone "accomplishment" is in VAIN." 4th paragraph

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by deci belle

[The0Self]

@deci belle Interesting take.

4 hours ago, deci belle said:

NIRVANA DEFINED AS CESSATION OF CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOT WORTH MENTIONING

I kind of agree, but it certainly is a very illuminating experience, ime. Shows the emptiness of the mind. And it is easily achievable by just noting over and over (viewing all experience as not-self) until there's less and less available to note until... GAP... then the bliss wave and insight. Of course, that is only the beginning, as I think you were getting at.

Are you pointing to the fact that what arises dependent upon conditions does not actually arise? What is empty, is not empty? What is unfabricated, is not unfabricated?

Edited February 25, 2021 by The0Self

[Breakingthewall]

Deci Belle, i see a point in your speeches that I have either misunderstood you or you are wrong imo. It is the idea that someone has an experience of the absolute, the sudden, whatever, and from there they have to start doing a work of refinement. An enlightenment experience, the awakening, however, is an important event but if it is just that and it remains in the memory, it has a relative value. Being the absolutely empty emptiness where there is no where or when or why is not something that can be remembered, it must be lived in the moment or else it will be conceptualized and become an incomprehensible idea. if this is so (if you live it) , if the walls of the ego have been broken more or less permanently, self-refinement will occur naturally. So according to you only enlightenment is useless per se? it has the obvious utility of preventing your life from being a hell. because you eat? Because you are hungry. Well, you get enlightened because if not you're well screwed, no more. it just takes enough intelligence to realize that the reality of the ego is a death trap. once you realize that you are in a death trap, you want to get out, no matter where. out of the trap. If you can get out, if you've opened up that awful shit to let the limitless breadth through, then this is it. the more the better, but a little is infinitely better than nothing. and there is no more, or I don't see it 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

Deci belle, think I understand you. You're lost, stuck. You got to a point and you stayed there. your speech is full of self-reifying details, what need? analyzes. And there are some... limits. 5 meo is waiting for you friend. 5 meo is the parentheses. You think you know but you don't know

Edited February 25, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

my apologies. I couldn't get your ideas out of my head and suddenly I had that inspiration very clear. now i see it's pretty stupid

[Awayfarer]

Would you say that exercising enlightening potential is the same thing as turning the light around?

If not, can you clarify how one can most efficiently "exercise"? 

Thank you.

[deci belle]

Yipee, for Breakingthewall!!

Awayfarer wrote:

Quote

Would you say that exercising enlightening potential is the same thing as turning the light around?

Yes, yes, yes. These are one and the same in terms of situational evolutionary adaption. In turning the light around, potential is made obvious, because seeing isn't relative to the person, therefore one's subsequent accord in reality is real.  When one uses self-reifying consciousness in accordance with reality, the result is delusion, because psychological awareness is relative. Seeing potential is itself freeing potential from the karmic matrix of creation, which enables one's adaptive accord to be guided without personal (relative) views. This is the only aspect of consciousness which makes transcendent activity possible at all. This is the open secret of the gateless gate.

As for starting to do the work of refinement in the aftermath of the sudden— absolutely(!!), The0Self, but the work itself is what results in the sudden in the first place. Naturally so, the sudden is simply an evidence of efficacy of gradual enlightening practice in "ordinary" transcendent circumstances. To trigger the event on the basis of some kind of drive, is dubious (but what do I know). I'm not discounting it altogether, but the possibility of malpractice is unavoidably acute. One still has to do the work— and the better prepared one is in the onset, the better it is for on'e's success in setting up advance practice in the aftermath of transcendent experience. It's too late for you~ ❤︎❤︎ heehee!! But others must not be shown that the way you entered into this affair is necessarily the best way.

I just entered into inconceivability by seeing potential somehow in the midst of situations and it all gathered (eventually) into a critical mass which naturally found its way through the front of my face and left "me", creation all time forgotten forever. Gone. Gone. Beyond gone. Gone beyond.

In ancient times, students weren't even ALLOWED to enter into basic formal meditation until completing years of study in both academic and psychological training. The thing is, essence cannot be taught. It's already your own mind right now. That is the reason why formal meditation even exists— to have people practice "just sitting". That is, just watching their own mental activity. Why? For two reasons. Firstly, because the Celestial arises spontaneously and subtly. One has to be awake, i.e.: present, to witness it in order to recognize it before it sinks back into the ocean of deep knowledge (inconceivability). Seeing the Celestial is key to recognizing it. Secondly, because the psychological apparatus cannot stand up to continuous subtle scrutiny underlying its relative functions, it must be scrutinized for that very reason until it craps out. Why? Because its spiritually obscurant psychological functionality is relative, based on that which is properly conceived of as pattern-awareness. In other words, it's not reality. Pattern-consciousness is fine for the species, but not for our nature as potentiates of enlightening being— which is immaterial. ALL BEINGS have this potential— not just people. Obviously, by your own enlightening experience, the relative is delusional because it's not absolute. That's ok, but, in turn, the nature of the absolute is awareness. That is, being is awareness and nonbeing is awareness too. Therefore operational effectiveness based on reality as opposed to relative delusion is transcendental.

It's just the way it is and no one knows why. Fortunately, this open secret has been left behind by all prior illuminates.

 

 

ed note: typo 3rd paragraph

Edited February 26, 2021 by deci belle

[deci belle]

Breakingthewall wrote:

Quote

"I think that any thought creates the illusion…"

Without delving into speculative reasoning bordering on philosophy; absolutely. Conceptualization is movement of Mind. Mind that moves relative to thought is delusion because its movement is based on relativity— unless it's not.

Spontaneous movement arising from within open stillness is true action, not relative action. Spontaneous nonoriginated movement is based on true stillness (nonoriginated), and such movement is called reality. Spontaneous accord in reality is not relative to momentum, psychological or otherwise, Whereas momentum (karma) is relative to before and after. When knowledge accrues, there is an evidential change. But in seeing change without harboring thought-movement, knowledge is itself reality and one has absorbed its potential by virtue of the knowledge itself. Taoism groups potential and real knowledge in the elemental and psychological categories of water and sense. The alchemic phrases "water produces metal" and "seek the treasure in the palace of water" bear this out.

In terms of the I Ching, three stacked yang lines represent moving water: danger! Even in terms of action relative to military or mountaineering travel, movement is dangerous. The analogy is simply that in observational (empirical) scientific terms, movement is perilous and stillness is security.

The human mentality is perilous because it is operative in terms of its functional aspect as psychological momentum— conditioned movement. The nonpsychological function is stable in terms of its nonoriginated stillness (or acquired, in terms of effective enlightening practice based on stillness). Like water, mind compelled by movement can be productive of relative obscurity, and its stillness results in relative clarity. Just making the simplistic analogy. Who knew?

When you see the light and the movement of the light is selfless, your fluid selfless accord in the light of selfless realization itself doesn't involve the psychological, it involves the nonpsychological, therefore the light is immediate knowledge. I'm not referring to the sudden. When you recognize knowledge as such, it's not that you didn't know it before, it's that you now know that such has always been the case, whether you knew it or not— so the fact doesn't involve the person. Such being nonorigination on the spot doesn't involve any change in you other than you knowing better instantaneously. Your immediate knowledge has no involvement with intellectual deliberations or self-reifying discriminatory consciousness.

I won't go into the aspects of "sudden", "self-reifying", "making things simpler" or introducing "depth." It seems you may be questioning my mode of expression relative to my questioning your mode of arriving at sudden realization, perhaps. That's understandable, but I'm not moved to respond further, in terms of your post.

Bankei was criticized by his peers throughout his tenure as a teacher of all classes of Japanese society for only saying one thing: "Awaken to your Unborn mind." All things resolve in the Unborn." What is this if not the teaching of nonorigination coming from within the realm of delusion?"

[deci belle]

Hi— mr Kalo wrote:

Quote

 

Yes, reality itself is nonorginated.

That's easy bro. 

The idea that reality itself (God) was orginated, doesn't resonate with the connected mind. 

If A was originated by B, who originated B? 

This is some logic bullshit.

A has always been. 

Beyond logic and reason, still the Absolute Truth.

 

 Yes, "even a three year old knows as much, but why can't an eighty year old put it into practice?