Nonduality and the Fantasy of Others

[Snt_lk]

I can't seem to shake the idea that others don't exist. After watching Leo's "Guided Exercise for Realizing You Are God", I had a moment in which I felt that everyone I knew was a projection, but soon after I found myself asking "But how could they not exist." Every time I saw another person, I questioned whether they were just a part of my imagination or if they are actually having a conscious experience.

For example, anyone that replies to this thread could say "others don't exist", maybe evening having the thought that the person who wrote this was a projection of their own imagination, but I on the other side of this thread know that I in fact am not a projection because I am aware as I write this and have consciousness.

Perhaps the higher the degree of consciousness, the closer to Nonduality someone gets? Even then, if there are other autonomous units of consciousness, regardless of the degree to which they are conscious, how is it possible that they don't exist altogether?

I'm aware that my ego will fill in what I have conceptually striped away and that the more real I believe the Self to be the more real others will be, but then how do I practically experience ongoing Nonduality . I truly do enjoy the concept of nonduality but I'm having some trouble putting it in to practice.

Any insights?

[Nahm]

@Snt_lk

Other people are as real as you are. 

There is no “concept of nonduality”. 

That would be two. 

Nonduality is not-two. (Non-dual)

[Snt_lk]

@Nahm

My natural reaction is to seek to be "un-real" then, but by seeking I believe I would then be creating separation. 

Is it true there is nothing to get/do? if so, how in this state of not doing and not getting does someone become aware of the Non-dual?

Thanks

Edited February 16, 2021 by Snt_lk

[OctagonOctopus]

 @Snt_lk

It is not really that other's don't exist, it is that we are the ineffable boundless infinite that is indistinct. The way you relate to anything is threw concepts, you make a distinction about a percived patturn in what is going on, and then you say it is this or that, but it is just the infinite fractal doing its thing, endlessly abstracting.

If you didn't have any concepts there would be nothing to relate to, only being the beingness of Being, being You, God loving itself, doing God's thing, Being.

The only reason that there would be anything to get is a relative reason, you are creating all reasons, the truth is you don't need to do anything. Although I would say it would be a good idea to desire what is true and aline yourself with that. What is true is always true, it is waiting for you to awaken to it, You are the Truth.

The desire for survival pulls pretty hard, but we can trancend it, and just be in infinite bliss always.

[Nahm]

31 minutes ago, Snt_lk said:

@Nahm

My natural reaction is to seek to be "un-real" then, but by seeking I believe I would then be creating separation. 

You & reaction is already duality. Reaction isn’t natural, it’s a causal semblance. You can not be a thought (unreal) which you are experiencing. 

Seeking is not believing, it is inspecting what is actual. The illusion of the separation, or separate self is already apparent. 

Quote

Is it true there is nothing to get/do? if so, how in this state of not doing and not getting does someone become aware of the Non-dual

No, that is another duality. “It” & true, you & nothing. Likewise, you & states, someone & not doing or not getting, someone becoming aware. 

The dualities, and imo, most respectfully and relevantly, the suffering, is already the case. 

[Snt_lk]

 

@Nahm

So (unreal) is only a thought, that which I am experiencing. 

and seeking is illusory.

What is that which is "already?"

for example, you mentioned already duality, already apparent and already the case?

Thanks

 

 

[Snt_lk]

@OctagonOctopus

Thank you for your insights.

I found them very useful.

[Nahm]

2 minutes ago, Snt_lk said:

So (unreal) is only a thought, that which I am experiencing. 

Check direct experience. 

2 minutes ago, Snt_lk said:

and seeking is illusory.

The seeker is illusory. 

2 minutes ago, Snt_lk said:

What is that which is "already?"

Ineffable. Inspect, de-condition, self realize satisfaction beyond asking. 

2 minutes ago, Snt_lk said:

for example, you mentioned already duality, already apparent and already the case?

There is only the words to go on here. Reading into it more, as in thinking more isn’t inspecting, de-conditioning, self realization. 

[TheSelf]

2 hours ago, Snt_lk said:

I can't seem to shake the idea that others don't exist.

how can you ever figure out if others actually exist or not without experiencing "others"? or they are conscious or not?! it's exactly like trying to figure this out in your dreams. you can only at some point believe someone's answer. realize that you are the reality which everything depends on you as awareness to exist. realize that the moment you wake up to the world, is the moment you give birth to everything!

[Snt_lk]

@Nahm

Thank you for your insights. I appreciate it.

[Snt_lk]

@m0hsen

18 minutes ago, m0hsen said:

it's exactly like trying to figure this out in your dreams.

This makes a lot of sense. What would I expect someone in a dream to say? probably exactly what I would expect them to say. 

Thanks.

[LastThursday]

2 hours ago, Snt_lk said:

I can't seem to shake the idea that others don't exist. After watching Leo's "Guided Exercise for Realizing You Are God", I had a moment in which I felt that everyone I knew was a projection, but soon after I found myself asking "But how could they not exist."

To get the bottom of it you have to work out what you think exists actually means.

To me if a person is standing in front of me, then they exist. But if someone tells me about a person I've never met, they may or may not exist - maybe I'm being gaslighted. The only way to verify they exist is to meet them in person. If a person dies do they still exist? So if by exist you mean having a direct experience of them (or it), then what happens when the person goes out of your direct experience? Could you call that a different type of existence?

It's like existence has a sliding scale of 100% exists to 0% no chance. Anything less than 100% is just inference and thought, and outside of direct experience.

But not even direct experience is 100% certain. You only have to look at optical illusions to see things that don't exist. And there are many every day situations where you could misjudge things and believe something exists when it doesn't.

In a way other people are "optical illusions" because you are inferring things about them that you are not directly aware of - such as if they have consciousness.

[Ry4n]

@Snt_lk Don't focus so much on dissolving "others" without having first dissolved the one who is having experience. Once you awaken to your true self as this boundless empty infinite consciousness you will see this very same essence/soul in everything you experience, thus the belief in "others", "self", "objects" and "matter" is realised to be nothing more than this singular consciousness; the relativistic world is seen as merely a dream conjured up by it. I like to think of this illusory splitting into dualities as a means of the universe knowing itself; God is Love and Love can be seen as a shared dance. There's really nothing more to it than that other than to experience this directly for oneself; let go of all the stories you tell yourself, all thoughts and concepts will pull you further away from this ineffable Truth.

“Never forget that the universe is a single living organism possessed of one substance and one soul, holding all things suspended in a single consciousness and creating all things with a single purpose that they might work together spinning and weaving and knotting whatever comes to pass.” Marcus Aurelius. 

I probably overly promote Adya's work in this forum but post my LSD awakenings this has been the best means to return to this eternal state, so it may work for you. 

 

[Snt_lk]

@Ry4n

 

Let's give it a go, and see what happens. Ty for sharing that.

[Javfly33]

so my topic get locked because of solipsism and this one not ? 

Can´t help ya brother, im in the same pit as you 

[Sempiternity]

8 hours ago, Snt_lk said:

how in this state of not doing and not getting does someone become aware of the Non-dual?

 

[Ry4n]

@Javfly33 I share your distaste for solipsism, doesn't match up with my experiences at all.

[nistake]

3 hours ago, Ry4n said:

 

I probably overly promote Adya's work in this forum but post my LSD awakenings this has been the best means to return to this eternal state, so it may work for you. 

Fact: You can't overpromote Adyashanti  

[Ry4n]

@nistake hahahaha facts my dude, he's my favourite right now

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Ry4n said:

@Javfly33 I share your distaste for solipsism, doesn't match up with my experiences at all.

What ya mean?