Radical Honesty OR Manipulative pickup?

[RoerAmit]

So I read Radical Honesty, and I am really confused.

On one hand, we are saying that pickup and getting girls is a game of manipulation and this will be the most effective way to get what I want.

But on the other hand, on Radical Honesty, and also on Brads' youtube interviews he says - tell all the brutal truth, and if you get it great, and if not then not.

When I'm taking it to pick up it will be more like: "Hey pretty girl I'm horny and I want to f*ck you." of course it is not an effective way to get girls.

So my question is: What would I do? Should I manipulate or should I just be 100% honest? 

 

Also, I don't have enough experience in the field so guess that's might be a reason why it's not clear to me.. anyway I would like to hear from you guys.

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, RoerAmit said:

When I'm taking it to pick up it will be more like: "Hey pretty girl I'm horny and I want to f*ck you." of course it is not an effective way to get girls.

Be honest, but don't be gross.

If you don't want a serious relationship, don't lie and say that you want one. Be clear about your intentions, but also be smart about the packaging.

[Leo Gura]

It's a game.

If you are gonna be radically honest, expect your survival to be seriously jeopardized. Why do you think most people are so dishonest? Just for kicks?

Honesty can get you killed.

[StarStruck]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a game.

If you are gonna be radically honest, expect your survival to be seriously jeopardized. Why do you think most people are so dishonest? Just for kicks?

Honesty can get you killed.

So when should one use dishonesty as an enlightened person and when not?

[Adam M]

@RoerAmit read models by Mark Manson. All your questions answered.

 

Pickup is about honesty and transparency. But it must be in a socially calibrated way. Telling the girl that you want to fuck her within 5 seconds of meeting her will get you slapped in the face. However, you can tell her that and be honest in more socially calibrated ways (eye contact, smiling, hugging, flirting, touching, "Just wanted to say that I think that you're really pretty. Good job! *high-five*"

[Leo Gura]

Survival is never about honesty.

If you were honest you'd go in a forest and quietly die.

Yet here you are, the selfish lying fuck that you are

[StarStruck]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Survival is never about honesty.

If you were honest you'd go in a forest and quietly die.

Yet here you are, the selfish lying fuck that you are

Ok, I can take honesty out of my LP values list.

[Superfluo]

You have to play by the game's rules. Think of this this way. Everything is manipulation. Life is manipulation, manipulation to survive (check Leo's video on Survival). So the question is: to what degree am I willing to manipulate? And given that pick up is higly manipulative, if you don't immerse yourself in the game, you will fail. If you are too honest, you will be seen as uncalibrated and fuck things up. If you are too manipulative, you will hurt people, make them angry and girls won't trust you easily, but you could be more attractive to some women.

Notice that honesty is not always equal to directness. You can be honest but not direct, and direct but not honest.

Every situation requires a unique mix of honesty, directness and manipulation. You have to be flexible.

Don't be too principled that you forget to not be so principled when the situation requires it.

[Axiomatic]

yall need to just stop fucking thinking so damn much

[Hello from Russia]

Honesty is a super good manipulation technique, don't dismiss it

And manipulation isn't inherently bad, it's just a tool

Edited February 16, 2021 by Hello from Russia

[Superfluo]

@Hello from Russia

6 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Honesty is a super good manipulation technique, don't dismiss it

Great advice

[Abdelghafar]

You're right, honesty could extirpate you, drive you to desolation. But, It could also set you free, engender elation. Of course, it depends upon the context one's in. Relatively speaking, lying often helps a man survive.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a game.

If you are gonna be radically honest, expect your survival to be seriously jeopardized. Why do you think most people are so dishonest? Just for kicks?

Honesty can get you killed.

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Abdelghafar

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Ok, I can take honesty out of my LP values list.

That would be more honest

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Honesty is a super good manipulation technique, don't dismiss it

I've never fooled more people than when I was acting honest

[Hello from Russia]

Tbh I found when Leo gives advice like this it is tailored more to Stage Orange girls. I found that the more conscious the girl is - the more she'll appreciate your honesty and other good stuff for which stage orange girl will find you meak and just dump you.

When I attracted my current long term partner it was basically me being super radically honest with her. I even told her that I was picking up other girls at the place that I met her and she actually appreciated it a lot and it even attracted her more, in a sense. She doesn't really demonize PUA that much, though. She even told me once that if we'd have a son, she'd want him to learn PUA because it is such an important survival skill and she'd like for him to be a total pimp 

By the way, I'd suggest to read a truly great book on relationship dynamics based on SD - "Integral Relationships" by a relationship expert guy that hangs out with Ken Wilber. It's branded for stage yellow men usage (not for women's, though). The whole premise is basically how to find (and attract) a fitting partner when you're woke and the rest of the world isn't. A really good book

It describes very interesting dynamics. Like how, for example, a stage green girl won't really typically date a stage green guy. She'll find him too meak/feminine and "flowboy" as they call it. So that In practice they will prefer to choose Stage Orange guys who have successful careers and more masculinity, despite them being less "woke" than the green guys. And, of course, if they can nail the Stage Yellow guy, they will, while stage blue is a big no-no for a stage green woman. This book is full of examples like this

Edited February 16, 2021 by Hello from Russia

[Leo Gura]

@Hello from Russia I never said to be dishonest.

Just understand the tradeoffs.

Be so honest it kills ya, if you dare.

[ilja]

Always always always always pick honesty no matter what girl you think yov will lose a night with. Sacrificing honesty is more punishing, especilly for quick pleasure. There is nothing to be confused about, you do not sacrifice your authenticity, if you dont get a girl honestly it is not meant to be, if you try to manipulate the dynamics you will see it backfire.

Edited February 16, 2021 by ilja

[Hello from Russia]

To be honest, what brings the most harm in all this dishonesty\honesty dynamic relative to relationships is your dishonesty to yourself first and foremost. Honesty to the girl isn't really as important as this. And this is where I see 80-90% of guys (and girls) fuck up. And by that I mean staying with the wrong person, chasing some girls that for sure won't be a good partner for you (and we do that because of trauma and other stuff), being forced into a monogamous relationship when you don't really want to, getting into marriage/having kids because of peer pressure, etc. This is where dishonesty really fucks you up, in my opinion

Edited February 16, 2021 by Hello from Russia

[flume]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Survival is never about honesty.

If you were honest you'd go in a forest and quietly die.

Yet here you are, the selfish lying fuck that you are

How much is this way of thinking still serving you, Leo?

[Abdelghafar]

1 minute ago, flume said:

How much is this way of thinking still serving you, Leo?

Actualized.org much.