Radical Honesty OR Manipulative pickup?

[ilja]

Could very well be. So what's your honesty, leo?

Edited February 17, 2021 by ilja

[Lyubov]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you want to marry a girl who's more like a man/nerd, go for it.

I am speaking from the perspective of masculine guys who like feminine girls. The degree of your polarity determines what you want/need.

There are traps on both ends.

There is a trap in dating too feminine, then she's too dramatic and irrational.

There is a trap in dating too masculine, then she's too much like you.

Find your sweet spot.

Personally I don't need a girl who's a philosopher because I already got that handled.

I am not turned on by girls that are sort of analytical and the "brainy" type. I also think it's so annoying to label the opposite of this as being dumb like stereotypes have. There is a wisdom and intelligence in the hyper feminine / irrational. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Lyubov

[ilja]

@Leo Gura maybe to you it is the accurate conveying of ones conscious intentions?

Edited February 17, 2021 by ilja

[Hardkill]

Ok guys, here's a heated debate over honesty vs. honesty in the world of pickup and dating with Steve "The Dean" Williams and AMS (w/ Oshay Duke Jackson listening on the conversation)

AMS says on here that flaking on and lying to women is more necessary these days given how many more options women have and because women lie too. So, fuck all of that "moral bullshit."

Steve "The Dean" Williams says that if you have to lie to women to get pussy then you are a weak ass bitch who has to resort to lying to get same results as a real man who knows how to get and keep any kind of women he wants by telling it like it is. If all you care about is doing whatever it takes get in between her legs, then that shows that you are truly a desperate beta male instead of a sexual alpha male. 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

if you have to lie to women to get pussy then you have weak ass bitch game who has to resort to lying to get same results as a real man who's game is on point.

It goes way deeper than lying. When you say "lying" in this context it implies something like lying about how much money you make or how big your dick is. That kind of lying is of course silly and isn't very helpful in getting laid more.

But where it helps to get laid is when you're pushing hard on the logistics to close. Handling those logistics successfully often involves a lot of subtle manipulation. And just not caring how she feels will get you a long way.

You can pump and dumb a girl without lying to her per se. But if you were conscious you'd be aware of how much it hurts her and you wouldn't do it. Removing the concern from your mind will increase your lay count significantly.

It's not lying that gets you results, it's not giving a fuck about her feelings or agenda.

[ilja]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Leo Gura thats not necessarily good for the girl. Her resitance might be at higher priority from her sake

[Ghartok Padhome]

8 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

Honesty is a super good manipulation technique, don't dismiss it

And manipulation isn't inherently bad, it's just a tool

I definitely agree. I use it to great success in workplace politics, both in turf battles with colleagues and in "managing up" my superiors.

Sometimes I'm brutally honest about my failures or mistakes(the small ones, naturally). Sometimes I intentionally contradict my superiors about something I know they like, or a pet project of theirs, while everyone else is brown-nosing. Sometimes I "grudgingly" admit others had better ideas or results than me. Sometimes I use "limited hangs", like I would be intentionally manipulative with someone in a very obvious way, and I would actually point out what I'm doing, make it all a big joke.

As a result I have a reputation as a "straight shooter" and almost everyone trusts me implicitly. Even when I do something that's obviously aggressive or vindictive, people think "he's usually such a nice guy, X really must have pushed him over the edge if he reacted like that". 

It's like building a brand, really. Taking short term hits to gain long term reputation.

 

As far as manipulation goes, I'd rather think of it as strategy. I don't think of myself as a manipulative person, I don't get off to what a cunning Machiavellian schemer I am. But in the great Darwinian games of life(money, power, sex) just being sincere isn't enough. To be without strategy is to be without wisdom.

[StarStruck]

5 hours ago, lmfao said:

I think this is unfortunately true on average. It's like they want you to lie and play a particular game with them. From my POV it just comes across as needy, neurotic and annoying. This is just one of those gender differences thing I suppose. 

That isn't to say women can't complain about what they find annoying about men, ofc

It is how the female brain is wired and conditioned. I'm not blaming them. 

They are physically weak so if the truth will squash them they will joyfully shit on the truth. 

Look at the weird gender neutrality manipulation that is going on. It is all females who are trying to reprogram gender so they can be feminine and be masculine at the same time. It simply doesn't work. 

[StarStruck]

@Ghartok Padhome honesty with pickup is only valuable if you live in a small place. 

If you live in an urban area, no way women know you care about the female agenda or are just out there to get yours. 

Most females care about their own agenda. The thought of dating a low value man and caring for his agenda (as a good gesture) would instantly dry her pussy up. But they expect men to care about their agenda though. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by StarStruck

[StarStruck]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Most people ain't speaking TRUTH, so we don't have very good mortality statistics

If you told your boss the truth he would almost certainly fire you  

Girls are more biased to feelings. A mother's job is not to tell the child the truth but to make it feel loved. Conversely with father.

But most men are still so full of shit that it's close to a toss up.

If women are 1% truthful on average. Men are 1.5%. So in absolute terms the difference is minor. Constant lying is the default condition of mankind.

I don't know if I agree.  

There are a lot of women who make dating choices based on feelings alone. 

Males on the other hand are more autistic. They look at the physical (sexual) value. 

With age, males can get past that but rarely does he become like a woman who operates fully on emotions when picking a mate. 

A female would marry an ugly or fat guy if his status is high or if he has money and funny. But a good looking male wouldn't marry a fat woman just for status, funniness and money. It is very unlikely. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by StarStruck

[Jodo]

Flirting and dating is not rocket science... it's an art, a game, also - communication. 

Presenting yourself in a good light is not dishonesty, except if you really pretend to be something you are not - then you will blow it all eventually, anyway. 

Honesty is really liberating, I don't know how you all define it, but if you have no need to hide your opinion, your demeanour, your background - if you are transparent to yourself first - then there is no need to be dishonest and manipulative...

That also doesn't mean you have to be awkward, insulting, vulgar, etc. 

If you feel "I am horny and I want to fuck you!" - this is not something you need to communicate in that manner... You can hint at it, show it, flirt more obviously, don't pretend you want to hold her hand and smell the roses together... but saying to a girl - "You sexy, me wanna fuck!" is not honesty, it's stupidity.

Chill guys, be comfortable with yourselves and you will have more success in getting sexual or relationship partners. It helps if you look half-decent, but even so - you would be surprised what a bit of humour, relaxed and easy going attitude can do. Most girls want to feel amused, safe/comfortable and admired. If they get nervous, uncomfortable and bored in your company - then you have to worry about other stuff than honesty...  

Honesty is a good trait - don't confuse it with stupidity or saying out loud anything that comes of the top of your head. Filtering out what you communicate with others is decency and tact, not dishonesty... I can think very conflicting thoughts and choose what to say to a person. Not with a wish to manipulate, but to have an appropriate communication. Communication is art, too.  

Real dis-honesty burdens you, can make you nervous, insecure and always careful to remain "in the act", "in the character", unless you're not a psychopath who can believe their own bullshit... If you have to hide things it will eventually show, it will  make you and your (potential) partners nervous, suspicious and not at ease in the situation. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Jodo

[Nahm]

On 2/16/2021 at 3:31 AM, RoerAmit said:

So I read Radical Honesty, and I am really confused.

On one hand, we are saying that pickup and getting girls is a game of manipulation and this will be the most effective way to get what I want.

That’s not going to work out in the longer run, as loa is inseparable of Truth. Happiness fills life with happiness. You seem to be missing that manipulation is quite delusional as there are not two. This is a sure fire way to remain ‘asleep’, or on the seeker’s rollercoaster. One only manipulates oneself, and then fills that hole with seeking short term good feeling from outside oneself, such as with meaningless sex, substances, self image inflation, demeaning others to feel ‘superiority’, etc (samsaras). None of which is satisfying. It’s one gaming oneself. You might say do to the law of one, there is no exception to this. 

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But on the other hand, on Radical Honesty, and also on Brads' youtube interviews he says - tell all the brutal truth, and if you get it great, and if not then not.

Yes. Truth is unconditional, and paradoxically therefore fulfilling of every aspect and venture of your life, relationship(s) & creating. I’d swap ‘express’ for ‘tell’, and ‘amazing feeling’ for ‘brutal’.  Truth, unconditional love, and loa are inseparable, One whole experience. Release of conditioning = being aware of attracting, and is for you. Sharing what remains, the whole world smiles with you, everything magically works out, because reliably is pure magic. This is the pinnacle of being and living, the best of ‘both’ worlds, effortless creating in joy, co-creating with Truth ya might say. 

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When I'm taking it to pick up it will be more like: "Hey pretty girl I'm horny and I want to f*ck you." of course it is not an effective way to get girls.

Right. Loa & conditioning wise, life would fuck you, and you’d be believing in two, missing you’re attracting it, fucking yourself. Don’t do that lol. 

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So my question is: What would I do? Should I manipulate or should I just be 100% honest? 

There is no one here to manipulate. Don’t ‘fill the hole’ with objects & objectifying, release conditioning, aka the identity of / as a manipulator. There are not two, and so this is a foundation of delusion and falsity. The ‘straw house’ of the three little pigs. Don’t wolf to compensate, there was no problem to begin with, without manipulating others. Brick house yo’ self of Truth, simple honesty. ?

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Also, I don't have enough experience in the field so guess that's might be a reason why it's not clear to me.. anyway I would like to hear from you guys.

Experience doesn’t attract, you attract. Notice, listening to intuition & feeling, even considering this ‘duality’ is extremely low hanging fruit on the path. Pass it up readily, and dial into intuition & feeling, Oneness more so (brick house). 

[AtheisticNonduality]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@AtheisticNonduality That's exactly what I warned you against. Stop looking for a woman who acts like a man. It's a trap.

Lol, maybe I'll tell all the ladies you cry like a girl when you're watching porn on drugs. 

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Or, hey, if you want to bang Sam Harris, go for it. I don't care. It's your dick.

More like Terence McKenna. 

[Axiomatic]

16 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Ok guys, here's a heated debate over honesty vs. honesty in the world of pickup and dating with Steve "The Dean" Williams and AMS (w/ Oshay Duke Jackson listening on the conversation)

AMS says on here that flaking on and lying to women is more necessary these days given how many more options women have and because women lie too. So, fuck all of that "moral bullshit."

Steve "The Dean" Williams says that if you have to lie to women to get pussy then you are a weak ass bitch who has to resort to lying to get same results as a real man who knows how to get and keep any kind of women he wants by telling it like it is. If all you care about is doing whatever it takes get in between her legs, then that shows that you are truly a desperate beta male instead of a sexual alpha male. 

 

 

AMS is successful with women, but hes a total douche bag. But he wears that proudly, calling his movement sleezball gang. All his videos are for sex and nothing more 

[Recursoinominado]

I stopped playing games (mostly) with women for some time now and i am getting flaked left and right.

Honestly, most women are not ready to an honest relationship.

I am talking about "i like you, i make sure you know it and i treat you good", women find this kind of relationship boring.

 

[Leo Gura]

@Recursoinominado If you're gonna be playing that sort of high consciousness game, you gotta find women who are higher consciousness to play it on. Otherwise it's like marketing diet food to gluttons.

[Hardkill]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It goes way deeper than lying. When you say "lying" in this context it implies something like lying about how much money you make or how big your dick is. That kind of lying is of course silly and isn't very helpful in getting laid more.

But where it helps to get laid is when you're pushing hard on the logistics to close. Handling those logistics successfully often involves a lot of subtle manipulation. And just not caring how she feels will get you a long way.

You can pump and dumb a girl without lying to her per se. But if you were conscious you'd be aware of how much it hurts her and you wouldn't do it. Removing the concern from your mind will increase your lay count significantly.

It's not lying that gets you results, it's not giving a fuck about her feelings or agenda.

Could you please give me an example of the kind of subtle manipulation and assertion that you're talking about that real assholes who totally don't care about a girl's feelings do?

 

[Leo Gura]

54 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Could you please give me an example of the kind of subtle manipulation and assertion that you're talking about that real assholes who totally don't care about a girl's feelings do?

For example, you meet a girl at the club, it's late at night. She tells you she has to work tomorrow. If you were empathetic and concerned about her well-being you would let her go home. But the typical PUA will ignore all that and just manipulate her into going back home with him anyway, causing her to be late for work. He will try to boost up her state and seduce her such that she forgets about work and sleeps with him.

The bottom line is that you can accomplish more when you don't have to take into account the well-being or agenda of others.

See, the more conscious you become, the less you can get away with shit like that because it harms your own consciousness and integrity.

The cruel thing about consciousness is that the more conscious you become the more responsible you must be for the well-being of others, otherwise you create bad karma for yourself. So an unconscious PUA can rape a girl and not experience bad karma, but a conscious person cannot. That's the cost of consciousness. The closer you get to infinite consciousness the less evil you can be. There is a direct trade-off between selfishness and consciousness. Such that when you reach infinite consciousness you must literally cease to physically exist. Because even your physical existence is too selfish to hold infinite consciousness.

[Gesundheit]

@Leo Gura It seems like you're equating high consciousness with neurosis here. I've done bad things consciously, but got good karma in return. Devilry felt right at the time I did those things.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Leo Gura]

@Gesundheit That's cause you're still barely conscious