Any composers here? How do I start

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Im not very big on hit songs, Im more of a deep cuts kind of guy

Me too. Sometimes there is that one song on the radio that has one of those magical moments in it, but that gets rarer as time passes.

[Rilles]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

Me too. Sometimes there is that one song on the radio that has one of those magical moments in it, but that gets rarer as time passes.

Billboard 100 is very Orange. Its all about following formulas to the tee, same trap sound all the time, same type of singing, its very scientistic and boring, "if it works, we have to do it over and over, milk that cow".

[Thought Art]

This song is Addiction formula bang on.. Yet, no seduction etc. Its less about the content, and more about structure. The addiction formula is a structure game. You can write very deep and profound music using the addiction forumula.

Your songs could even be 10 minutes long. 

Don't get caught up in content. 

This is about structure.

The addiction formula is a set of concepts, principles, skills, mindsets, rules of thumb, techniques etc. Its basically a set of structure and tools you can use in your own creative way. It's actually a very freeing process because it gives you tools and concepts, and cuts out a lot of wasted time. Like I said, pretty much ANY song you like uses concepts from it. It's not a 'how to sound like everyone else forumula' and a 'How to make songs, using your own voice and taste that people will actually listen to' formula. 

This formula got me playing festivals. So, you do you.

Also, you haven't read or listened to the audiobook, so becareful speaking out your ass. 

You can write whatever songs you want, but if you want to be commercial you gotta dress the part. Arcadefire has no real genre, and they aren't overly poppy yet, they use this formula as well. It works. No girl gonna dance with you if you look like a bum.

This whole album is about the heros journey, war, fear, spiritual persuits, waking up in america to the pains and sufferings of the world and transcending it all and becoming a lighthouse. Not shallow. But, addictive. 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

Here is the authors youtube channel - Holistic Song Writing

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLtD67ljlaeXQMV4sb-YzNA

[Gili Trawangan]

@Thought Art I have no idea what this addiction formula is. Is it a song structure?

[Thought Art]

@Gili Trawangan Audio book I shard in this thread

This being said, it doesn't replace mastery or guaranty success. 

There is a lot of elements that go into a successful music career. It will at least help you make music you love which it has for me! 

I am still on my early mastery process, in music, spirituality, business, spirituality and life in general. Give it time.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Thought Art

[RendHeaven]

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

 

 

Lol the exact same 3-4 chords on loop for the WHOLE song.

Not very musically inspired imo, but I can see why the mainstream would like this.

[Michael569]

@Applegarden

[Rilles]

25 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Lol the exact same 3-4 chords on loop for the WHOLE song.

Not very musically inspired imo, but I can see why the mainstream would like this.

Its not just about the chords. There are hundreds of factors that make this a song that works. 

How about the constant changing of time signatures?

Or the fact that the singers range goes from practically whispering to belting, in a totally natural way over the course of the song?

Or the complex lyrics?

Edited February 25, 2021 by Rilles

[aurum]

3 hours ago, Gili Trawangan said:

@Thought Art I have no idea what this addiction formula is. Is it a song structure?

The Addiction Formula is the Hero's Journey translated into songwriting.

The basic idea is that you start your song with low energy (Ordinary World) and amp up the energy over time, eventually leading to your big climax (final Chorus) and outro (Hero returns home).

This is basically the formula every hit song has followed ever.

In terms of real simple song structure, it looks like this:

Intro -> Verse -> Chorus -> Verse 2 -> Chorus 2 -> Bridge -> Final Chorus -> Outro

Which each part gaining in energy, i.e verse 2 having more energy than verse 1, Chorus having more energy than verse 1 or verse 2. And the final chorus having the most energy of the whole song.

It is useful if you're new to songwriting. This at least gives you a framework to start with as opposed to being paralyzed with infinite opportunities. But of course, like any good artist, you also want to break the rules. Don't get trapped in it or start thinking you *must* write this way.

[Thought Art]

@aurum Thanks for adding that in. That is so amazing isn't it? This structure exists not only in popular music but in films too! wow

[RendHeaven]

1 hour ago, Rilles said:

Its not just about the chords. There are hundreds of factors that make this a song that works. 

Obviously. But at the same time there is a basic flavor here that we've heard time and time again in millions of pop songs.

1 hour ago, Rilles said:

How about the constant changing of time signatures?

A good 80% of it is in 4/4 time as far as I can tell. There was one middle section where they played around with it a bit, but to say "constantly changing" is a stretch.

1 hour ago, Rilles said:

Or the complex lyrics?

I'll admit I haven't looked into this. I could barely make out what the words were over the blaring organ + drumset.

Maybe the lyrics are good

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Intro -> Verse -> Chorus -> Verse 2 -> Chorus 2 -> Bridge -> Final Chorus -> Outro

Which each part gaining in energy, i.e verse 2 having more energy than verse 1, Chorus having more energy than verse 1 or verse 2. And the final chorus having the most energy of the whole song.

Enter Sandman by Metallica is a good example of this. Many Metallica fans hated Bob Rock for doing that to them 

[Rilles]

20 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Obviously. But at the same time there is a basic flavor here that we've heard time and time again in millions of pop songs.

A good 80% of it is in 4/4 time as far as I can tell. There was one middle section where they played around with it a bit, but to say "constantly changing" is a stretch.

I'll admit I haven't looked into this. I could barely make out what the words were over the blaring organ + drumset.

Maybe the lyrics are good

Since taste is subjective I cant really say much else, if youre a listener that requires more complexity then maybe jazz-fusion, technical death metal or even classical is more for you. I however find that a song doesnt have to be complex to be good, and overly complex music can be shit too. 

But to say Arcade Fire arent masters at arrangement you would be fooling yourself. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Rilles

[aurum]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Enter Sandman by Metallica is a good example of this. Many Metallica fans hated Bob Rock for doing that to them 

Enter Sandman + about a million others.

Yeah that was the album that changed Metallica. From thrash to more just heavy pop rock. 

Interesting to think about what are the systemic causes of musicians “selling out” like that. Which is not to say Enter Sandman isn’t a fun song or there’s anything wrong with pop. But there definitely can a sacrifice of uniqueness in order to appeal to mass markets.

[Carl-Richard]

16 minutes ago, aurum said:

Enter Sandman + about a million others.

Yeah that was the album that changed Metallica. From thrash to more just heavy pop rock. 

When I was 11 and got my first electric guitar (I still use that one), I listened to only Metallica for over a year straight. I learned basically all of their songs 

[Rigel]

On 2021-02-15 at 10:05 PM, RendHeaven said:

You'll have to dive head first into a DAW if you're serious.

This. 

A good DAW is the most powerful musical tool ever really.

It's the place where all aspects of music making meet for you to create and learn about sounds and stuff. 

[RestWithinTheHeart]

I'm doing music production myself, and what I've found is this. Follow your inspiration. Find ways to be really productive, crazy productive, practicing instruments, reading notes, studying different styles of music, but do it in a way that you find attractive and fun. When the going gets tough just switch things up. It doesn't really matter if you're jumping between different things when you're doing music if you're playing the long game. Having breadth of experience is seriously powerful, and smooths things out when you're working with other people. Go with the flow, experiment, try different things, or stick to one thing if that's your style. Mastery of music can mean a million different things. It's ok to get crazy with it, and you'll surely find a really unique niche and sound. Music is infinite. Best of luck to you!

[slev1111n]

I think one personal drawback that I need to work with is that I am a perfectionist to a fault. I tend to not want to share anything until it's where I believe it should be, which is often far beyond my capabilities at that moment.

[Dlavjr]

On 3/10/2021 at 9:05 AM, slev1111n said:

I think one personal drawback that I need to work with is that I am a perfectionist to a fault. I tend to not want to share anything until it's where I believe it should be, which is often far beyond my capabilities at that moment.

You'd be surprised how much other people might like your work, you're better off releasing it and moving on to the next thing. 

I believe somebody else mentioned it but being a "perfectionist" is more so being insecure and afraid of failure. Embrace your art and the potential failure. 

Once failure is no longer seen as a negative thing, you will be able to move forward fearlessly.