What Enlightenment Really Is

[Elzhi]

@Neo I don't really understand what sort of critique you are making. Everything that I have written here is about truth. It seems as though English is not your first language based on what you've written and aside from that you've entirely missed the point. You may want to reread or perhaps have a native speaker interpret for you what I wrote

[Neo]

@Elzhi  WTF? I was talking about your critique FFS.

[aurum]

@Elzhi

This is a very common response to people who find out about McKenna, including myself. Keep going.

Isn't it rather convenient that you've suddenly concluded that you should "just enjoy your life" after finding out about the costs of Enlightenment? Could that be a ego-defense mechanism in disguise?

It's true that enlightenment from an egoic standpoint can be a living hell, but ironically maybe satisfying ego desires isn't what is going to make you live a high quality life.

[Elzhi]

@aurum I found out about Jed Mckenna nearly a year ago. I read Damndest during that which I was a pickup artist. I finished the rest of the trilogy nearly two months ago. I understood logically what he was talking about before, but now I can truly SEE it, FEEL it after a series of emotional epiphanies which began three moths ago.  I swear it's almost as if you're not even reading what I wrote. Even Jed Mckenna who is supposedly enlightened says that you should not seek this out. I still sought out enlightenment regardless but now, nearly a year later, i've realized that there is no point, nothing to be gained from it. People who become enlightened are a lot like the person who ransacks, vandalizes and burns an entire house in a psychotic rage or like someone who gets struck by lightening.

Read my words very closely because there should be no confusion. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about or@Neo and it's not important because there are no questions left to be asked. I've laid it all out for you. The truth is there right in your face. Am I defending my ego? Yes. That's what I'm always doing, what you're doing and what everyone else is constantly doing. But I JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER. 

[aurum]

24 minutes ago, Elzhi said:

I found out about Jed Mckenna nearly a year ago. I read Damndest during that which I was a pickup artist. I finished the rest of the trilogy nearly two months ago. I understood logically what he was talking about before, but now I can truly SEE it, FEEL it after a series of emotional epiphanies which began three moths ago.

Yup, right on track.

24 minutes ago, Elzhi said:

I swear it's almost as if you're not even reading what I wrote. Even Jed Mckenna who is supposedly enlightened says that you should not seek this out

Trust me, I'm right here with you. I know exactly the parts you're talking about and have read the Trilogy forwards and backwards several times. He is my favorite teacher on the subject.

But why do you think McKenna wrote that from his perspective? Take a breathe and REALLY think about. Could there be some subtle nuance you're not picking up on? Let me throw you another quote from McKenna:

"He has traded everything for nothing and made a good deal" - Theory of Everything

Could it be that McKenna, seeing how much modern ego has been tied up in the process in enlightenment, set out to write a book destroying all those illusions? Could it be that McKenna didn't want to contribute to that whole egoic rat race?

And yet, he doesn't regret his own experience. No one who is Enlightened does. In fact, he also says he would die rather than live the egoic life we are all living. What does that say about our present state? Why does he say in the second book that Ahab, sensing his freedom, would be mad with happiness? Why is Julie happier than shes ever been towards the end? What does she find that McKenna didn't want to mention?

You HAVE to look at the subtle nuances of what these people are saying. Why is meaninglessness depressing? Could that just be your own interpretation? Maybe there's ANOTHER perspective.

24 minutes ago, Elzhi said:

People who become enlightened are a lot like the person who ransacks, vandalizes and burns an entire house in a psychotic rage or like someone who gets struck by lightening.

And how do you know that's always true? Do you think there could ever be exceptions? Why or why not?

McKenna himself says at the end of Damndest that his only real essential teaching is: think for yourself. Are you doing that right now? Or have you just bought into McKenna much in the same way a religious person buys into a holy book?

Keep in mind this is all very good. But don't stop here.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2016 by aurum

[Elzhi]

@aurum

1. I haven't bought into anything. You can realize all these things just by questioning the nature of your existence. And like I said, I understood logically what he was talking about at first and left his teachings behind because it sounded so terrifying and continued to instead mindlessly chase vagina. Over time I gradually become more and more disillusioned doing pickup (both disappointed and free of illusion) and the things that I read in Jed's first book began to make sense emotionally. I understood those things through my own experience. Afterwards, I read the next two books which I also understood logically and then now i understand emotionally.

2. Yes I realize that the same person who is saying enlightenment is "bad" would not say the same if he were enlightened because then there would no longer be a context in which to do so. I, MYSELF have decided that it's a fruitless pursuit within the context of the FINITE reality. Remember, I said that I sought out enlightenment for quite some time too, meaning that I didn't just outright listen to Jed and stop seeking because it was scary.

3. The reason why I say that you have to be psychotic or get struck by lightening (sudden realization through psychedelics or spontaneous triggering) is because its factually true based on logic. Go back and re-read the last few paragraphs of my first post and then all the others

Furthermore, if Jed said Enlightenment was a GOOD deal, then why would I be railing against it now? I'm blindly following Jed like you said, right? Think twice. You're contradicting yourself within the same argument.

3. This conversation is pointless because there is nothing to talk about. This is just entertainment at best.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Elzhi

[Elzhi]

@aurum The things that I've written are for other people to stop wasting their time and bullshitting themselves. I'm not saying that I'm going to stop. I'm most likely past the point of no return so yes I know what you mean by 'further'. One way or another, it doesn't make any difference. Become, enlightened or don't, it's all the same.

[Deep]

12 hours ago, Elzhi said:

STOP ASKING GURUS TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. THEY DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER THAN YOU. CONTINUE LIVING OR THROW YOURSELF OFF A CLIFF. IT'S ALL THE SAME.

I completely agree with what you said here. I disagree when you said enlightenment is NOT a pleasurable experience. Enlightenment is an entire lifestyle. The ancient sages developed a step by step procedure for becoming enlightened. It is called the Patanjali's Sutras. The reason why most people don't become enlightened is because they are unwilling to do what is necessary in such a grueling process. I will list the things a person must do PRIOR to sitting down for meditation:

1. Practice nonviolence- This is pretty straightforward.

2. Be 100% honest with yourself and others- We are conditioned in this society to be politically correct so we are definitely not as honest as we can be. It means you have to say what you think, and do what you say. Try not to offend people but if they get offended, then so be it. Even if you get killed in the process. 

3. Celibacy- No masturbation, sex, or looking at anyone in a lustful way before enlightenment. After enlightenment you can have sex but NOT before. Why? It's your sexual energy that goes up in your spine during meditation. If you release your sexual energy it can't rise up. 

4. No stealing- Straightforward

5. No accepting gifts- This might be because our ego gets gratified when we accept gifts. 

After you practice these for years you can sit down for meditation. Your body, mind, and heart has to be perfectly aligned. The ancient sages used to become enlightened before getting married. 

 

[Elzhi]

Just now, Deep said:

I completely agree with what you said here. I disagree when you said enlightenment is NOT a pleasurable experience. Enlightenment is an entire lifestyle. The ancient sages developed a step by step procedure for becoming enlightened. It is called the Patanjali's Sutras. The reason why most people don't become enlightened is because they are unwilling to do what is necessary in such a grueling process. I will list the things a person must do PRIOR to sitting down for meditation:

1. Practice nonviolence- This is pretty straightforward.

2. Be 100% honest with yourself and others- We are conditioned in this society to be politically correct so we are definitely not as honest as we can be. It means you have to say what you think, and do what you say. Try not to offend people but if they get offended, then so be it. Even if you get killed in the process. 

3. Celibacy- No masturbation, sex, or looking at anyone in a lustful way before enlightenment. After enlightenment you can have sex but NOT before. Why? It's your sexual energy that goes up in your spine during meditation. If you release your sexual energy it can't rise up. 

4. No stealing- Straightforward

5. No accepting gifts- This might be because our ego gets gratified when we accept gifts. 

After you practice these for years you can sit down for meditation. Your body, mind, and heart has to be perfectly aligned. The ancient sages used to become enlightened before getting married. 

 

ARE YOU JOKING? Everything that you just wrote is bullshit. Snap out of it. Why the fuck would you need to stop stealing, practicing nonviolence. and accepting gifts? You don't even need to meditate. All you need to do is to start questioning everything about yourself and your life. The answers are right in your face, every day all the time. You don't need a fucking teacher or method. You can know this through your own experience

[aurum]

31 minutes ago, Elzhi said:

1. I haven't bought into anything. You can realize all these things just by questioning the nature of your existence. And like I said, I understood logically what he was talking about at first and left his teachings behind because it sounded so terrifying and continued to instead mindlessly chase vagina. Over time I gradually become more and more disillusioned doing pickup (both disappointed and free of illusion) and the things that I read in Jed's first book began to make sense emotionally. I understood those things through my own experience. Afterwards, I read the next two books which I also understood logically and then now i understand emotionally.

All good. Let me guess, you were a fan of RSD.

 

32 minutes ago, Elzhi said:

2. Yes I realize that the same person who is saying enlightenment is "bad" would not say the same if he were enlightened because then there would no longer be a context in which to do so. I, MYSELF have decided that it's a fruitless pursuit within the context of the FINITE reality. Remember, I said that I sought out enlightenment for quite some time too, meaning that I didn't just outright listen to Jed and stop seeking because it was scary.

That's your choice if you wish to do so. My guess though is that's not going to happen.

39 minutes ago, Elzhi said:

3. The reason why I say that you have to be psychotic or get struck by lightening (sudden realization through psychedelics or spontaneous triggering) is because its factually true based on logic. Go back and re-read the last few paragraphs of my first post and then all the others

And did you figure all this out by getting struck by lightening or being psychotic? Or was it a very natural, intelligent process? Do you think you're crazy?

34 minutes ago, Elzhi said:

Furthermore, if Jed said Enlightenment was a GOOD deal, then why would I be railing against it now? I'm blindly following Jed like you said, right? Think twice. You're contradicting yourself within the same argument.

You're railing against it because you're not enlightened. You're actually seeing where this could go, and it's scaring you. That's good. But don't think that means you aren't still accepting things on faith.

35 minutes ago, Elzhi said:

3. This conversation is pointless because there is nothing to talk about. This is just entertainment at best.

Maybe. So then why are you here? You seem awful emotionally invested in something that's entertainment.

18 minutes ago, Elzhi said:

The things that I've written are for other people to stop wasting their time and bullshitting themselves. I'm not saying that I'm going to stop. I'm most likely past the point of no return so yes I know what you mean by 'further'. One way or another, it doesn't make any difference. Become, enlightened or don't, it's all the same.

If it's all the same, why did McKenna write a book? Why teach at all?

[Elzhi]

@aurum Entertainment. It's all just entertainment. I want some sort of significance remember? I want people to agree with me. And yes I am emotionally invested because how could I, an egoic being, not feel some sort of frustration about the seeminly endless delusion that I'm seeing in others, and myself. How could I NOT be annoyed? 

My version of "being struck by lightening" was smoking weed in high school. I'm definitely not psychotic, although I might be moving in that direction

Jed needed some money, apparently the universe told him to write the books and it's kinda fun really, so why not? What else is there to do. I don't say that this conversation is pointless because I want it to stop necessarily. I say that in support of the fact that everything is futile and encourage people to be a bit more nihilistic. 

Oh and yes, I used to follow RSD, although now it's not quite as entertaining. Who knows, I might go back to doing pickup some day. There's no telling what will become of me.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Elzhi

[Key Elements]

@Elzhi

Elzhi, I would like to say something here please, if you're interested in enlightenment. Just stay calm and be yourself. In the meantime, work on a life purpose that you love. What do you love to do? Put that in your life purpose. Also, work on a life purpose geared towards peace. That's the main thing about enlightenment. Peace. Meditate and do self-inquiry. It helps. I don't find many people talking about it, but I find that Karma counts. What goes around comes around. It's a lot deeper than that, but you get the point. And, don't be too hard on yourself. As you work on your life purpose, eventually, the full-blown enlightenment may come one day with bits and pieces of little enlightenments.  Nothing is as you expect it, so acceptance is necessary. 

In the end, if enlightenment does come, congrats.  If not, congrats too cause you'll be having an outstanding life purpose. 

[Elzhi]

1 minute ago, Key Elements said:

@Elzhi

Elzhi, I would like to say something here please, if you're interested in enlightenment. Just stay calm and be yourself. In the meantime, work on a life purpose that you love. What do you love to do? Put that in your life purpose. Also, work on a life purpose geared towards peace. That's the main thing about enlightenment. Peace. Meditate and do self-inquiry. It helps. I don't find many people talking about it, but I find that Karma counts. What goes around comes around. It's a lot deeper than that, but you get the point. And, don't be too hard on yourself. As you work on your life purpose, eventually, the full-blown enlightenment may come one day with bits and pieces of little enlightenments.  Nothing is as you expect it, so acceptance is necessary. 

In the end, if enlightenment does come, congrats.  If not, congrats too cause you'll be having an outstanding life purpose. 

 

Life Purpose? What the fuck are you talking about? I'm actually laughing at your right now. There is no life purpose. If you wanna argue with me then at least read everything that I've written. And I mean every post on this thread.

[Key Elements]

That's your wish. There are no right and wrong answers here. It's what works for you. Everyone is different. Gurus / teachers / whatever you call them are meant to be guides to help you find your own light. In the end, it's up to you to find your own light.

You wrote a lot. Enlightenment isn't some complicated "rocket science" where you have to do a lot of analyzing. Make it simple for yourself. 

Hint : If something doesn't work for you, it's time to move on.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Key Elements

[Society of the Spect]

1 hour ago, Elzhi said:

@aurum Entertainment. It's all just entertainment. I want some sort of significance remember? I want people to agree with me. And yes I am emotionally invested because how could I, an egoic being, not feel some sort of frustration about the seeminly endless delusion that I'm seeing in others, and myself. How could I NOT be annoyed? 

My version of "being struck by lightening" was smoking weed in high school. I'm definitely not psychotic, although I might be moving in that direction

Jed needed some money, apparently the universe told him to write the books and it's kinda fun really, so why not? What else is there to do. I don't say that this conversation is pointless because I want it to stop necessarily. I say that in support of the fact that everything is futile and encourage people to be a bit more nihilistic. 

Oh and yes, I used to follow RSD, although now it's not quite as entertaining. Who knows, I might go back to doing pickup some day. There's no telling what will become of me.

Sounds to me like JED has taught you a new "False Personality"

A Creed that is self contained and contains a retort to any criticism of it.

Not unexpected in the modern world where life is being examined from new perspectives.

Jed seems to have produced a philosophical/Religious VIRUS.

Again Not unexpectedly , he Rails against people "Cashing In" on enlightenment ,

while selling a "Series" of Books.

So jed ends up looking like a kind of New Age Donald Trump.

[Elzhi]

@Society of the Spect

1. There's nothing "new" about the falseness of my personality

2. you mean factual, not philosophical/religious. 

3. Jed is more like the Obama of Spirituality in the sense that he's trying to do right by people as best he can but he can't really because he's part of the same flawed, corrupt system.

[Dodo]

Is there a type of enlightenment where one can freely choose how they feel no matter the circumstances? Thats what i initially thought about enlightened state before i started. More like not choose how they feel, but be able to feel pleasurably and full  (happiness) no matter their circumstances? I.e. One that can fully control ttheir state, not necessarily one that knows the ultimate truth or whatever.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Dodoster

[Elzhi]

@Dodoster Did you read any part of this thread? What the fuck is "happiness"? Who is in control of what? What are these  "types" of enlightenment  you're talking about?? Peak experiences and "cosmic consciousness experiences" are not "enlightenment". You're either "untruth unrealized" or not. You're either in the dualistic paradigm or the non-dualistic paradigm.

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, Elzhi said:

@Dodoster Did you read any part of this thread? What the fuck is "happiness"? Who is in control of what? What are these  "types" of enlightenment  you're talking about?? Peak experiences and "cosmic consciousness experiences" are not "enlightenment". You're either "untruth unrealized" or not. You're either in the dualistic paradigm or the non-dualistic paradigm.

Relax. I mean pleasure, happiness, as opposed to unhappiness and pain. From the point of view of the person i am experiencing.

The kind of fullness i get when the person i am experiencing gets high on weed and then smokes a cigarette to ground himself. When i experience my brain as a ball ofexplosion. What im askimg is, is there an extralightened state where you can feel that way whenever you like or always, without the drugs.

 

[Elzhi]

@Dodoster "Extra -lighted??" What the fuck?? You really don't listen, do you? All these things you're talking about are sensory sensations. Fullness, emptiness, pleasure pain, anxiety, fear. these words are relative. They have no place in the nondual paradigm. Your body knows these things and will survive regardless but these labels are meaningless in and of themselves.