A Lack of Feelings

[Mjolnir]

Hello Actualized.org,

I have previously asked about the same problem that I've been trying to solve for many years now to no avail. Hopefully someone can help guide me in the right direction or even have some answers. (The previously asked questions aren't necessarily the same as I'm just fishing for potential things that may cause it. This is the first one and this is the second one.)

So I think I have this problem that is that I have a lack of feeling. I'm talking about the ones like drive, gratitude, enthusiasm, happiness, joy, love etc. I actually experience the feelings of frustration, anger, annoyance, tiredness etc.
My overall days are very flat, like I'm indifferent to anything. No "jump in my step", no joyful lets sing along with a song, or energetic or you name it. I'm not down nor angry nor frustrated nor depressed although I experience those emotions sometimes yet on a scale to 1-10 they're probably 5 at max.

I find this so important to solve because I think I need those positive emotions to both feel good (which we all want of course) and to use as "fuel" to chance my life's circumstances. Because currently I'm using food as a "feel good" and I play a video game to get some sort of feeling but it's all a quick fix or a shallow/empty thing.

There are a number of things in my life I want to change but I feel like I constantly have to rely on willpower as I can't seem to create those positive feelings as a drive. Like the whole pleasure and pain idea for making changes doesn't evoke a single feeling and thus I keep trying to rely on willpower which ultimately doesn't result in the change I want nor does it last.

At this point I don't know what to do to find out how I can get those feelings. I've been to multiple psychologists that didn't prove of any use. I tried diets, meditation, cold showers, music, visualizations, incantations, different physical therapists, New Mood from Onnit, CBD and even space cake.
I even went to Unleash the Power Within from Tony Robbins and I didn't feel any different about anything.

I'm starting to think maybe there is something wrong, do I need to do like a complete medical check up with brain scans and all? Are maybe my pleasure and feel good centers blocked or however that works and if thats even a thing. Am I "just unable" to experience those emotions? Is it psychological or even subconscious? I can think of so many potential things but I'd have to spend soooo much time and money and effort into completely diving into all those things and I simply am not curious about those. I'd like to start working on my life yet I feel like there is this thing that needs to be solved first.

Does anyone know what I can do as I feel like there's just so much that could potentially be the thing. Anything of help is help

Thanks !

[commie]

You're conflating different things.

Maybe you have a freak neural condition and maybe you're depressed or simply in denial (I couldn't possibly tell)... but you also have an entierly different problem: you clearly are judging your feelings. You have these normative notions about feelings and your actual feelings come short. The 1-10 scale is probably the most obvious manifestation: 10/10 is the max, yet you somehow figure your max is 5/10 even though this is your own scale... what's the use of 6 to 10, except to make yourself feel inadequate?

I don't think I lack feelings and still, I could say just like you that "the whole pleasure and pain idea for making changes doesn't evoke a single feeling". Why should an idea evoke feelings? Sure, it can but it's certainly not something you should aim for. Likewise food and video games are typically quick and shallow... you can make something more out of such pursuits if you're passionate about them but not being passionate about food and video games doesn't make you weird. Indeed there are arguably saner things to be passionate about. It sounds like you're hoping having the right feelings would fix you somehow. But feelings don't make me change, feelings make me just the way I am and change with me.

If doctors aren't helping and you're out of ideas, maybe try to appreciate your feelings for what they are instead. Maybe they'll develop if you let them.

[Mjolnir]

@commie  Hey commie thanks for your response. I think maybe the way I wrote things left a different impression than I intended. The scale of 5/10 was simply to explain that those negative feelings aren't intense and are just to explain that I do experience those and they're on a level I'm happy about. It wasn't meant to be a measurement of how well or not "I'm doing" with those feelings. I'm not trying to scale or compare to others just to give an indication of sorts

The thing about the pleasure and pain idea was something I learned from different self help books etc. Basically saying, if you want to change a behavior you'd want to link "massive" pain to the behavior you want to change and massive pleasure to the new behavior you want to have.
Also for choosing your direction in life, your life purpose maybe and things your interested in, there should be some sort of feel-good coming from them right? So those positive feelings so-to-say would be used as a guide in life right? But if those positive feelings aren't there then it'd be worth investigating why not in my opinion.

Leo talks in many videos about passion, an exciting dream or vision for your life etc. (Those are big things but even in the smallest of things) How are you to know which direction to go in if even there is not the smallest of hints?

I find it difficult to explain and please don't take my words for my literal "feelings" and like it's a "fact" as they're going through a language barrier. I'm aware of the importance of the words I use but when I try to explain here it's not my literal feelings it's what I think would convey my idea in a way that'd hopefully register to the reader. When I write " I can't feel feelings" i mean it in a way that "I currently experience a lack of feelings that I know I can have yet have difficulty with FOR NOW".

Wow long response I swear I'm not crazy

[commie]

Yes, language is a barrier. You can not possibly understand what Leo or anyone else says about feelings by considering their words.

43 minutes ago, Mjolnir said:

they're on a level I'm happy about.

That still sounds like judging.

43 minutes ago, Mjolnir said:

The thing about the pleasure and pain idea was something I learned from different self help books etc. Basically saying, if you want to change a behavior you'd want to link "massive" pain to the behavior you want to change and massive pleasure to the new behavior you want to have.
Also for choosing your direction in life, your life purpose maybe and things your interested in, there should be some sort of feel-good coming from them right? So those positive feelings so-to-say would be used as a guide in life right? But if those positive feelings aren't there then it'd be worth investigating why not in my opinion.

Leo talks in many videos about passion, an exciting dream or vision for your life etc. (Those are big things but even in the smallest of things) How are you to know which direction to go in if even there is not the smallest of hints?

Pleasure and pain are not to be confused with feelings. And what feels good or bad isn't a reliable guide in life. Be careful not to allow words to confuse you.

I'm not saying pleasure/pain conditioning can't work in some circumstances but I understand that was how people typically tried to control slaves. Do you want to be a slave? I on the contrary try to refrain from seeking pleasure or avoiding pain.

Accomplishment can feel good for instance but are you going to feel that ahead of time? And trying to accomplish something sometimes feels bad, right? So you can't use such feelings as guides. It's not clear what "positive feeling" means to you but you've spoken of "drive, gratitude, enthusiasm, happiness, joy, love". I'm not sure what "drive" is. Gratitude is not a guide. Enthusiasm is a poor guide. Happiness and joy are not guides. That leaves us with one feeling which could conceivably be used as a guide: love. But it's not a feeling you can follow like a dog follows a smell. The feeling alone neither tells you what to from moment to moment nor what goals are worth pursuing. You have to build on it. Sure, there are things I do simply because they feel right in the moment and others I avoid doing simply because they feel wrong in moment. But while the moment is very important, planning is important as well (in a different way). And more importantly perhaps, feeling right isn't the same as feeling good.

I know you're not going to understand what I mean. That's fine because these words are only here as an antidote to other words. There's more than one way to live. You don't need to understand them, only to understand you are free.

[universe]

You want to get out of AGFLAP and focus on CAP. Stop playing video games and practice Gratitude. Get a Life Purpose while doing the Sedona Method. Decide to be Happy and relaaax your body.

And don't forget to exercise and go for a walk every now.

[Mjolnir]

@universe  Hey universe this is crazy I was logging in and wanted to comment on your post called Integrating Emotions. Thank you for that post and for your response here.

I'll dive into the things you mentioned. I'm going through the course right now so I'm curious what it'll bring. I also started doing Step 1 from your post currently just focusing on opening my chest and heart. I find this difficult but I'll keep practicing.

One thing I'm curious about and I wonder if you can inform me or maybe point me in a direction of how I could figure this out. Many of the exercises regarding emotions, some of the life purpose points discussed in the life purpose thus far (I'm around the core concepts now) and also your post on Integrating Emotions talk about moments where you experienced certain emotions. Or trying to evoke certain feelings like gratitude for example.

I've tried many times in different circumstances to do these types of exercises or create these types of "results". But I haven't gotten the faintest of hints that I'm experiencing something. Also I can't recall times in my life that I actually did and this I find difficult because how do I know what to do when I don't know what the outcome is like (I'm using "know" not as a logical way here).

Basically bluntly said: how can I find out if and how I can feel those emotions if I can't recall experiences where I did?

[ted73104]

You mentioned that you would experience feelings of frustration, anger, annoyance, tiredness. If this occurs often, then I think that your emotions are trapped somewhere within you. Something is blocking you, holding you back from being who you really are. 

I don't know if any of your past experiences are causing this, but in my experience, I used to try very hard to be this goody goody Christian. In that process along with the very conservative and demonic Christian narrative that was fed to me, I developed many neurotic tendencies. Eventually I couldn't live up to the church's expectations, I broke down and left the church. I wasn't until much later that I learned about the concept of being, just letting myself be. I gradually found the deep emotions I had back at the church and the anger I had towards certain people. Only when I could identify and talk about those emotions, sort of expressing them with a close friend was I finally able to free my emotions and get a part of myself restored. So I feel like if you have deep anger, frustrations, shame, or some other feelings or beliefs that is holding you back, your body has to find a way to express that feeling very truthfully, or else your true emotions will stay locked. Hope you find some way to unlock yourself.

[Nahm]

@Mjolnir

It’s been this simple all along. Let me know if you have any questions. 

If you choose to stop pretending you experience a past or future it gets immediately clear as well. 

[universe]

Yes, I had trouble in the beginning as well. But I just kept trying and hearing from other people how they feel emotions.

If you can't feel anything don't try to solve a big problem or get "results".

Take your time and lie down somewhere quiet. Where you are undisturbed. Then do a body scan, use a guided one if you prefer that. Do that for at least 5 to 10 minutes. Relax.

In your recent memory, think about a situation where you felt for example fear or anger. Imagine the scenario, why were you fearful/angry, what did it look like, what was happening, was there any sound or smell. Basically, get immersed into the situation. Then try as best as you can to feel the emotion again. Notice any sensations in your chest area, arms or throat.

Welcome that emotion. Allow it to be there.

Does that work?

[Setzer901]

@Mjolnir Okay, I may know the answer to this because I've been in the same boat. But I'd like to ask you a couple of questions first.

a) Do you feel the emotions of fear, anger, frustration, annoyance the most? 

b) Do you talk to your friends in terms of feelings or do you talk intellectually, from the head?

c) Are you vulnerable when meeting new people? Or are you guarded?

d) Are you too in your head? Or do you engage with life from the body?

Depending on the answers you give, I may know what's up.

 

[Mjolnir]

@ted73104  Hey Ted thanks for your response, hope you're doing well! I find this difficult to say as the majority of the time I'm in like a neutral or flat mood. I don't really live in anger, frustration or any of those other types of emotions. I also don't notice a big spike when these arise and when they do it's mostly just because of triggers I can't fully connect with anything or any recurring ones. I actually very easily let go of any negative feeling towards others so I don't really know how much I resonate with what you said. Although it's worth "investigating".

@Nahm Thank you for your response Nahm! I'll have some reading to do!

@universe Good to hear you got through this as well! I hope you're doing good now! Is this exercise purely to experience the different sensations in my body? So I can maybe get a feel(haha) for it and know how and where to look for? I'm hesitant to try this with negative emotions as I don't want to linger in those feelings for a prolonged period of time after the exercise. Also during the situations where those ADGLFAP emotions may arise I'm conscious about not "going deeper" into those. Maybe this is a control thing and maybe that could be the case with the beautiful emotions as well. But how necessary is it to "go there"?

@Setzer901 Thanks for your response! Hope you got out of the boat and on the shore

a) Do you feel the emotions of fear, anger, frustration, annoyance the most?

    - Those are basically the ones I experience at all, besides being "flat" or indifferent.

b) Do you talk to your friends in terms of feelings or do you talk intellectually, from the head?

    - I'd say intellectually. Any speak of feelings is mostly feelings from the head, not from the body.

c) Are you vulnerable when meeting new people? Or are you guarded?

    - I'd say I'm guarded. I used to joke about feeling like the new one when a new person arrives. Although I seem to "befriend" people quickly.

d) Are you too in your head? Or do you engage with life from the body?

    - Yes, I'm experiencing life from the head I think. Trying to explain this but maybe in a way as if I'm removed or a step away from "life" so to say.  Not in direct connection.

[universe]

@Mjolnir

Oh, I thought you where asking how to feel emotions.

This "not wanting" to linger or feel with these emotions is exactly what's holding you back. What you resist persists. Counter-intuitively suffering comes from not wanting to feel emotiones. By feeling them, giving them room in your body, allowing them to be there, be with them, you allow them to go on and get out of your body. While supressing and resisting them will make them to stay in your body, grow and become heavier and heavier.

You will not be able to win this way. Your emotions are not your enemy. They are you friends. They want to be seen and heard. Listen what they have to say. Then they will go away on their own.

[Setzer901]

@Mjolnir

Haha yes, I have gotten out/still getting out of the boat. It will take time.

So yup this confirms, you are me in another body. And your problems are caused by massive emotional repression. 

How to get out of this?

a) Get the book Radical Honesty. Be honest about your thoughts and feelings. Don't think of the 'right thing to say'. Say what you actually feel. 

It won't be easy, but keep working towards this. Your mind will try to edit your sentences, but try to say your actual thoughts and feelings. This will let get you more in touch with the feelings. 

The problem is this is akin to diving into the deep end. So if you want, you can go all out. Or you can try talking about your feelings once in a while.

The first time I went all out with this, I went from never crying in a year, to crying the day I tried this out. 

b) Go to a therapist. Find someone who works with emotions, and not cognitively. Fuck CBT. It is going to make it worse. 

The reason you feel fear, anger, annoyance, numbness is because these are 'defensive emotions'. For eg, being angry all the time means you are defending some deep pain or sadness underneath. Same with fear - you may be scared to take action because you don't want the feelings of worthlessness to arise if you fail.

Here is why there is no 'jump in your step' or no joyfulness - you have suppressed the negative, so you can't experience the positive. You can experience a rich life only if you experience ALL the range of emotions. The lower the lows you allow yourself to feel, the higher the highs. 

When you let go of the sadness and hurt, you'll get access to all the joy that was trapped underneath. 

This is honestly quite deep, so let me know if you want to know something more. 

[Petals]

@Mjolnir well, I haven't read through all the answers but I am giving you a very simple answer that might be one piece in your puzzle and that is - take a vitamin D supplement. I am not saying that this is a magic pill but it has made quite a difference for me. where do you live? do you get enough sun? take one in gelatine form or in oil form because it needs fat to be absorbed. take a vitamin K2 supplement at the same tame, they go together. always with the main meal of the day. vitamin D needs magnesium to work, do you get enough of that? I currently take 5000 IU vitamin D per day which is above the recommended highest intake in the US as far as I know but I don't think you can cause harm as long as you don't go much higher. mainstream medicine is quite behind on this topic I think and we will see the recommended dose rise over the next years which is also already happening. so give it a try. and of course do your research first.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Petals