You cannot ever become fully present... because you already are!

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

If you're an avid meditator, you probably know the following scenario all too well:

You're sitting down. You cross your legs. You close your eyes, and you try to become fully present. But of course, you get carried away by your thoughts in no time at all. After a while, you notice this, and you redirect your attention on your breath. And what do you know, you once more get carried away by your thoughts... and round and round it goes. So you say to yourself: "Alright, it's no use. How can I ever become fully present? What's the magic trick? What am I doing wrong here? Maybe I just need more practice? But I've been practicing this for ages now! Maybe watching another instruction video will get me there? Gah, I think I just don't have any talent for this. Maybe it's about time to throw in the towel, because this is clearly getting me nowhere."

Trust me, I've been there.

But if you keep at it, you will finally reach the point where something very funny happens: All of a sudden, you realize that you actually cannot help but be present, that everything that is going on is presence itself. The room that you're sitting in is presence. The thoughts that are arising are presence. You are presence. There's no escaping presence; it's all there is.

So meditation is not about becoming present. It's about realizing that you always are present, that you are presence itself. No matter what you do, you are always here, and you are always now.

Anyway, going to have a cup of tea now. Have a good one, my friend!

[Seraphim]

Don't use non-duality truths to justify giving up Being in the no-thought state feels much better, we keep seeking until we get there. Thinking all the time is an addiction, a distortion, it's not natural.

[Breakingthewall]

38 minutes ago, Kalo said:

“You yourself are the veil, O Hafiz!

And so remove your self!”

great truth, the veil is neither more nor less than you. the ego is what you are, your form, to stand aside so that the formless manifest is like joining two magnets with the same charge, slippery

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

@Seraphim

3 hours ago, Seraphim said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Seraphim said:

Don't use non-duality truths to justify giving up Being in the no-thought state feels much better, we keep seeking until we get there. Thinking all the time is an addiction, a distortion, it's not natural.

There is noone here who could give anything up, and there is noone here who could "stop thinking". How can a thought stop another thought?

Anyway, I appreciate the concern. 

[Seraphim]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

@Seraphim

 

There is noone here who could give anything up, and there is noone here who could "stop thinking". How can a thought stop another thought?

Anyway, I appreciate the concern. 

Look in the mirror human. To embody non-duality is not about pretending to not be human, it's about being in your natural state, free from delusions and beliefs. That's why there are many advanced spiritual teacher who never talk about these "No one here"-Neo-advaita-ideas, it's not needed and it creates confusion.

[Breakingthewall]

We can't stop thinking because we have a sick need of control. Thoughts create the illusion of control. illusory because there is no possible control. To stop thinking when there is this need for control is like escaping the force of gravity, you can only do it with effort but in the end it will attract you. the need for control is the i itself? Or maybe is this i that we have. I think that each time you realize the formless, the i change, it's a more silent i, smaller but still an i since you are alive as an individual. I agree with @Seraphim that concepts like you don't exist, reality is an illusion, etc, accepted as a dogma make more problem than benefit. I think it's possible to have an i without need of control , small and silently

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

28 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Look in the mirror human. To embody non-duality is not about pretending to not be human, it's about being in your natural state, free from delusions and beliefs. That's why there are many advanced spiritual teacher who never talk about these "No one here"-Neo-advaita-ideas, it's not needed and it creates confusion.

Allowing human thoughts to arise is pretending not to be human? Wow, now there's a Zen style ko'an if I ever heard one! 

[Javfly33]

Sorry but there is something I don't get.

This Consciousness, this presence, this thing in which all sounds, vision, body, thoughts are happening, this might be ME.

Then what the hell am I alone in the whole world?

 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

PS: I admit that when I say "there is noone here", I am of course being a tad hyperbolic. There is still a sense of "me" present... I just don't take it and its grotesque self-importance, its neurotic need to understand everything and especially its delusions of being in control serious anymore.

[Mason Riggle]

It can be realized that there's nothing to do because..  

There is no 'you' inside your organism that does things.  There are organisms that behave how they do, the same way trees behave how they do.  Asking, 'who is thinking my thoughts?' is like a tree asking, 'who is growing my leaves?'. Human organisms thinks thoughts. Trees grow leaves. 

Consider: your organism is growing hair. Are you 'doing' that? Can you stop? Are you thinking your thoughts? Can you stop? 

You can't stop 'being your organism' because there's no 'you' who's doing it. Your organism is 'happening', it's growing hair, it's thinking thoughts, but there's no separate 'you' who's doing it. 

The 'you' that your organism thinks is 'authoring and noticing thoughts, and feeling emotions and sensations' doesn't exist. (Where inside your organism is this you?) 

"What you (your organism) mistake to be the thinker of thoughts, is just more thought." - Sam Harris

This imagined 'you' is something that is happening, not something that 'does things'. 

A useful analogy (useful to human organisms) is that of a whirlpool in a river. 'You' are like the whirlpool. It's something the river is creating in each new moment, but if I asked you to take the whirlpool out of the river and show it to me, you couldn't, because there is no 'whirlpool' in the river. Whirlpools don't 'do' anything.. Rivers do whirlpools, and landscapes do rivers.. but these things are 'happening' without anyone who 'does them'. 

There is just 'what is happening', and 'you' are part of what's happening.. not something that 'does' things. Sure, thoughts are arising, and brains are aware of them.. but 'you' aren't 'doing' that. 

There is no you. Nothing to do. 

Consider: how hard are you trying to 'be you' right now? Not at all. You can't stop 'being you'. 'You' don't think. 'You' don't make choices. 'You' don't do things. 

Organisms think. Organisms make choices. Organisms do things. 

Consider: Trying 'to be like yourself' and 'trying not to be like yourself' are the same exact thing. They are both 'what you are doing', which is 'being you', and you're always doing it, effortlessly. 

Consider: if you were me, you'd be doing exactly what I'm doing, because you would be me, being me. 

 

[Heart of Space]

Meditation is also about committing the long and arduous process of spiritual suicide too.  Just realizing presence is a tiny step.

[Javfly33]

9 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

PS: I admit that when I say "there is noone here", I am of course being a tad hyperbolic. There is still a sense of "me" present... I just don't take it and its grotesque self-importance, its neurotic need to understand everything and especially its delusions of being in control serious anymore.

Nonoffen but That seems like self rejection/denial 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Nonoffen but That seems like self rejection/denial 

There is still some resistance towards full acceptance of what is, and that resistance may express itself in words that seemingly reek of 'self rejection' and 'denial'. But the shell has been cracked. The illusion has been seen through.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Bazooka Jesus

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

@Mason Riggle Very well put

[Javfly33]

15 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

There is still some resistance towards full acceptance of what is, and that resistance may express itself in words that seemingly reek of 'self rejection' and 'denial'. But the shell has been cracked. The illusion has been seen through.

And what is the illusion exactly?

How do you explain reality?

Who are you?,

[Carl-Richard]

Different pointers for different people.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

15 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

And what is the illusion exactly?

How do you explain reality?

Who are you?,

@Javfly33 Lol... you want me to give your mind more fodder to chew on, so it can keep breeding more concepts and run around in circles forever?

There's a reason why so-called Zen masters generally insist that they have nothing to teach. How do you teach nothing? Well, you don't. The answer that you are looking for is really a no-answer. Drop the question and simply realize what is.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

 

[Javfly33]

39 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

@Javfly33 Lol... you want me to give your mind more fodder to chew on, so it can keep breeding more concepts and run around in circles forever?

There's a reason why so-called Zen masters generally insist that they have nothing to teach. How do you teach nothing? Well, you don't. The answer that you are looking for is really a no-answer. Drop the question and simply realize what is.

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

 

Ok, so you ain't awake and are playing the Advaita card.

Cool.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

4 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Ok, so you ain't awake and are playing the Advaita card.

Cool.