The Animal Holocaust

[blackchair]

46 minutes ago, Natasha said:

Wonder if the world quit eating meat and all animal products, what would that industry do with farms still full of animals, start killing them off without making profit and go bankrupt?

and this is great question, thank you, i think the world(us) arent ready for that big step. 

[ilja]

@blackchair

 

[martins name]

@Natasha

1 hour ago, Natasha said:

Wonder if the world quit eating meat and all animal products, what would that industry do with farms still full of animals, start killing them off without making profit and go bankrupt?

The change will be gradual so this would never happen. Even tho vegans hope that everyone switches to veganism tomorrow I think we all understand that this is not realistic. The gradual transition will probably just result in that farmers won't breed new animals, and that way the animal population will gradually decrease along with meat eaters decreasing.

[blackchair]

@ilja this is maybe "primitive" answers but when all the grocery shops in Croatia stop selling meat then will be time...this is what i meant by listening "orders" its not up to me....

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Natasha said:

Wonder if the world quit eating meat and all animal products, what would that industry do with farms still full of animals, start killing them off without making profit and go bankrupt?

I think the natural transition would be for the government to redirect the current investments and tax from the cattle & dairy into things such as organic farming of fruits, vegetables, legumes etc, that would be cheaper and more widely available as an alternative for these farmers. The meat is not leaving human plates anytime soon but as a form of slow transition, it could work so that farmers are not out of job. It would have to be financially beneficial for them to start making the switch but that would mean releasing the tentacles of meat, dairy & egg industry and ultra lobby which I don't really know how could be done in a country such as US. The most realistic form is consumer education and helping people transit from super high meat diet into semi-high meat diet for a start. 

[blackchair]

6 minutes ago, martins name said:

@Natasha

The change will be gradual so this would never happen. Even tho vegans hope that everyone switches to veganism tomorrow I think we all understand that this is not realistic. The gradual transition will probably just result in that farmers won't breed new animals, and that way the animal population will gradually decrease along with meat eaters decreasing.

6 minutes ago, martins name said:

@Natasha

The change will be gradual so this would never happen. Even tho vegans hope that everyone switches to veganism tomorrow I think we all understand that this is not realistic. The gradual transition will probably just result in that farmers won't breed new animals, and that way the animal population will gradually decrease along with meat eaters decreasing.

very nice

[Skenderberg]

Try taking psychedelic mushrooms and watch chicken frying. 

[Stomatopod]

8 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

I can watch those documentaries all day long and 5 minutes after I will be enjoying a nice BBQ.

So NO.

I think these threads divide people with the guise of bringing awareness

Mods close the thread please.

I find this position interesting because it shows the difference between ignorance and unconsciousness. People who are seemingly intelligent and knowledgeable can still engage in heinous devilry when their level of consciousness is at a low level. Their ego defenses are too thick, and their circle of concern is too narrow to understand the harm they cause. That's why you can't convince a diehard nazi with facts and logic that committing genocide is wrong. From their perspective, it's just a fact that "lower races" do not have value. No information will change their mind, only doing the hard work of personal development.

It's also quite common for meat eaters to wear their low development as a badge of honor. They brag about how unconscious they are, as if having no empathy is a sign of strength. I'm reminded of a recent article I read, commenting on the Danish armed forces introducing a "meat free day", there was this right wing politician who was so triggered, that he said he is going to double his meat eating in protest.

[ilja]

@Skenderberg

[ilja]

18 minutes ago, Stomatopod said:

 I'm reminded of a recent article I read, commenting on the Danish armed forces introducing a "meat free day", there was this right wing politician who was so triggered, that he said he is going to double his meat eating in protest.

This reminds me, when I was at the Officer Assessment Center of the Bundeswehr ( German Military ), I was given a task to present my ideas to safe our hypothetical food business from dying. Some soldiers were triggered and couldn't look at me when I introduced the idea of vegan food options.

Edited February 15, 2021 by ilja

[Scholar]

Please my brothers and sisters, open your heart to the suffering of the children of this earth. Let us find ways to not exploit each other anymore and instead allow the Grace of the Divine to speak through us.

It is us who are privileged enough to make the first step into the future of life of this planet, let us lead by example. May we be the first who shine light into darkness, because we are the ones who have been given the gift of this path, the gift of the light. We are the most fortunate, more fortunate than the kings and queens of the past and the present. Let us accept our responsibility to brighten this world, and align with the Will of the Divine.

 

2 hours ago, Natasha said:

For enzymes. Cooking tends to deplete food of live enzymes. I also love fermented/pickled foods, like sauerkraut, etc that offers live probiotics. The only exceptions for cooking would be beans, potatoes, rice, buckwheat, quinoa, and other gluten-free grains.

Yes, while consuming raw foods is important and healthy, I do think that there should be a balance. As you said, many foods are better to be cooked and they are healthy and important. Many people struggle on a raw diet and I think often it is the cause for unnecessary suffering.

[Skenderberg]

@ilja

[blackchair]

45 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Please my brothers and sisters, open your heart to the suffering of the children of this earth. Let us find ways to not exploit each other anymore and instead allow the Grace of the Divine to speak through us.

It is us who are privileged enough to make the first step into the future of life of this planet, let us lead by example. May we be the first who shine light into darkness, because we are the ones who have been given the gift of this path, the gift of the light. We are the most fortunate, more fortunate than the kings and queens of the past and the present. Let us accept our responsibility to brighten this world, and align with the Will of the Divine.

 

Yes, while consuming raw foods is important and healthy, I do think that there should be a balance. As you said, many foods are better to be cooked and they are healthy and important. Many people struggle on a raw diet and I think often it is the cause for unnecessary suffering.

45 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Please my brothers and sisters, open your heart to the suffering of the children of this earth. Let us find ways to not exploit each other anymore and instead allow the Grace of the Divine to speak through us.

It is us who are privileged enough to make the first step into the future of life of this planet, let us lead by example. May we be the first who shine light into darkness, because we are the ones who have been given the gift of this path, the gift of the light. We are the most fortunate, more fortunate than the kings and queens of the past and the present. Let us accept our responsibility to brighten this world, and align with the Will of the Divine.

 

are u high?

[Scholar]

5 minutes ago, blackchair said:

are u high?

No, why?

[martins name]

@Scholar amen 

[blackchair]

48 minutes ago, Scholar said:

No, why?

we are all equal, and every single person on this planet is giving its best. we are not "special". 

[Scholar]

40 minutes ago, blackchair said:

we are all equal, and every single person on this planet is giving its best. we are not "special". 

We are not special, but our knowledge and privilege very much is special my brother or sister. Most individuals don't know about non-duality, most individuals struggle to survive. Most individuals cannot even conceptualize anything.

In this way our position is very special, we can help the world in a meaningful way if we adopt more responsibility for it.

[blackchair]

4 minutes ago, Scholar said:

We are not special, but our knowledge and privilege very much is special my brother or sister. Most individuals don't know about non-duality, most individuals struggle to survive. Most individuals cannot even conceptualize anything.

In this way our position is very special, we can help the world in a meaningful way if we adopt more responsibility for it.

well im doing my best and im afraid its not enough. im insecure.

[ilja]

@blackchair   ?

[Stomatopod]

14 minutes ago, datamonster said:

I believe nobody here would tolerate someone arguing that gassing jews is ok. 

So, what's the difference? Why do we need to tolerate opinions that concentration camps for animals are ok, but when it comes to humans we have zero tolerance for such ideas?

After all, we are animals, too. So, isn't this a very biased, human-centric perspective? And don't we all generally agree that it's a good thing to stand up for the weak and defenseless?

Evolution of consciousness takes time, but it only moves in one direction. Animal rights activists have to realize that those comparisons sound absurd to people who are at the human-centric stage of development, which is still the vast majority of the world's population. At this stage it is counterproductive to be intolerant of those who support animal exploitation. Unless a significant percentage of the population is already on board, It will only create more resistance.

My advice to activists would be to contain your outrage and continue to raise awareness in a non-judgemental way. Do not demonize and point fingers at people who eat meat, or at the people who work in the industry. They literally don't understand what they're doing, and you can't blame them for that. It's possible to advocate for animal rights without blaming and shaming. More importantly, you can lead by example and you can vote with your wallet. In the past 10 years there has been an explosion in sales of vegan alternative foods in Europe, and it's predicted to accelerate the more options become available. It's so easy to shop now, compared to just 10 years ago. You can get any kind of food you can imagine, so the excuse that being vegan is difficult and expensive just isn't true anymore.

Once you have the majority on your side, then people will naturally start being "intolerant" of those who haven't yet caught up with the new cultural norm. Just like being openly homophobic or racist went from being the norm to being career endingly unacceptable in the span of a few generations, so too will being speciesist in the future.