Teal Swan: Why Women Like Assholes + Why Women Aren't Attracted to Nice Guys

[knakoo]

2 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

If it's not a reward, then withholding it is a punishment at least. Think about it from the perspective of an unattractive guy that wants to have sex. He's nice and everything so he presents no threats whatsoever, but he's still unattractive. How do you fix that? Does he not deserve having sex? Should he just bite the bullet and stay a virgin forever? Or should he become aggressive and an asshole? What are you suggesting exactly? A "nice guy" cannot change overnight, it takes practice. And so here we are.

A guy deserves to have sex if he is being very nice ? What a strange idea.

You do not need to become aggressive or an asshole to be attractive. Have you even watched the video ? 

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

So, are you totally against cold approaching? Do you think it's bad or are you just not into guys who cold approach you?

I don't think it's a bad idea. I think I would probably have a cold approach/pick up phase if I were a man. I think that would be helpful... as long as I also developed the capacity for the slow organic process of bonding with a woman I want a deep relationship with.

But I know that it's a "meh" kind of feeling with a guy who's trying to pick me up. I need time and ambiguity to develop potency of attraction. Or it's just luke-warm. It's the least potent form of the romance drug.

Like if I'm going for a deep bond with a man, I need the heat and tension of the slow burn over time and the ambiguity around that to forge that bond. 

Like if you can imagine that I'm a piece of metal and I need time to heat up to the point where I can turn to liquid and meld with someone. And cold approach is well... too cold for that type of bonding.

It just makes for a more lukewarm romance... which is kind of blah. 

But it's good as a starter and to get some experience as a man. I can see the efficacy of it because cold approach is actionable with a high degree of control.

But what I appreciate is that which grows organically... so lower amounts of control on the part of the man but infinitely more juicy and intimate from the female perspective.

So, my recommendation is to open yourself to both.

[Hardkill]

1 minute ago, Emerald said:

I don't think it's a bad idea. I think I would probably have a cold approach/pick up phase if I were a man. I think that would be helpful... as long as I also developed the capacity for the slow organic process of bonding with a woman I want a deep relationship with.

But I know that it's a "meh" kind of feeling with a guy who's trying to pick me up. I need time and ambiguity to develop potency of attraction. Or it's just luke-warm. It's the least potent form of the romance drug.

Like if I'm going for a deep bond with a man, I need the heat and tension of the slow burn over time and the ambiguity around that to forge that bond. 

Like if you can imagine that I'm a piece of metal and I need time to heat up to the point where I can turn to liquid and meld with someone. And cold approach is well... too cold for that type of bonding.

It just makes for a more lukewarm romance... which is kind of blah. 

But it's good as a starter and to get some experience as a man. I can see the efficacy of it because cold approach is actionable with a high degree of control.

But what I appreciate is that which grows organically... so lower amounts of control on the part of the man but infinitely more juicy and intimate from the female perspective.

So, my recommendation is to open yourself to both.

Ah, I see. Fair enough. Yeah, that's why I actually want to work on both cold and warm approaches and meet women in all kinds of venues in all kinds of situations.

[Gesundheit]

4 minutes ago, knakoo said:

A guy deserves to have sex if he is being very nice ? What a strange idea.

A human being deserves to have sex if he is a human being.

If a guy can't get sex while being nice, then what's the alternative? Either stay a virgin and become depressed, or become violent and a criminal, or simply learn pick-up.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Gesundheit said:

A human being deserves to have sex if he is a human being.

If a guy can't get sex while being nice, then what's the alternative? Either stay a virgin and become depressed, or become violent and a criminal, or simply learn pick-up.

This is dangerous mentality. You don't have the right to hurt others just because your needs are not met. The only reason where killing someone is justified is for self defense/abuse/kidnap. 

 

[Space Coyote]

Quote

A human being deserves to have sex if he is a human being.

Every single personal development coach in the world: "The world owes you nothing"

Natural selection: "Survival of the fittest" .

Both man and nature agree you do actually have to "earn" your pussy. You know Like everything in life worth getting you don't deserve it by merely existing.  

This is not a bug this is a feature. There is nothing "realistic" about going against a key principle of all sexual mating systems. 

[lmfao]

4 hours ago, Emerald said:

First off, don't think about female attraction as a reward. It's just how she feels. There's no sense of rewarding someone with affection. It's either she is attracted or she isn't. 

 

From my POV (and many others), the whole sexual game is something with winning and losing and rewards. Not even saying or justifying that POV as truthful or accurate, just saying the POV I have or lots of people have in general. Which you're aware of. 

 

Let's not forget about the construct/truth of Dominance Hierarchies that our founding father Jordan Peterson entirely invented alone. By default we view and see the world as dominance/social hierarchies, resources. So this is a larger thing you're looking at "transcending". Running on energy fields of neediness, scarcity, etc... First step is always honesty rather than false suppression

Being at the bottom of a dominance/social hierarchy in any manner can be brutal, you get no mates

[Gesundheit]

28 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

This is dangerous mentality. You don't have the right to hurt others just because your needs are not met. The only reason where killing someone is justified is for self defense/abuse/kidnap. 

Take a deep breath. Maybe make a smoothie. And then read what I said again. You keep repeating the same fearful points that I've already answered. I'm not advocating crime. Period.

12 minutes ago, Space Coyote said:

Every single personal development coach in the world: "The world owes you nothing"

Natural selection: "Survival of the fittest" .

Both man and nature agree you do actually have to "earn" your pussy. You know Like everything in life worth getting you don't deserve it by merely existing.  

This is not a bug this is a feature. There is nothing "realistic" about going against a key principle of all sexual mating systems. 

There's this survivalistic perspective, and there are far more compassionate perspectives. Pick-up is good. The ladies here should stop demonizing it.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Gesundheit

[lmfao]

4 minutes ago, Space Coyote said:

Every single personal development coach in the world: "The world owes you nothing"

Natural selection: "Survival of the fittest" .

Both man and nature agree you do actually have to "earn" your pussy. You know Like everything in life worth getting you don't deserve it by merely existing.  

This is not a bug this is a feature. There is nothing "realistic" about going against a key principle of all sexual mating systems. 

Now that's some facts bro

Edited February 16, 2021 by lmfao

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Take a deep breath. Maybe make a smothie. And then read what I said again. You keep repeating the same fearful points that I've already answered. I'm not advocating crime. Period.

You aren't advocating it. But you're justifying it, which is called enabling. Change your mindset. It's going in the direction of dangerous territory. 

You're giving leverage to behavior of criminals. 

Pickup means attracting women and establishing a connection which is mutually satisfying.

Pickup is not man dominating a woman and justifying killing her if she rejects. 

Your rejection is not a woman's fault. It's your lack and her right. If you didn't match her requirements and fantasies, she is not obligated to give you shit. 

If you can't attract a woman, you can always complain about it, you could want some pity fuck, you could express frustration. 

But frustration should never be channeled into crime. 

If a man is that frustrated enough to kill, then he needs to stop being a brat and grow up and learn to deal with reality 

 

[Gesundheit]

Just now, Preety_India said:

You aren't advocating it. But you're justifying it, which is called enabling. Change your mindset. It's going in the direction of dangerous territory. 

You're giving leverage to behavior of criminals. 

Pickup means attracting women and establishing a connection which is mutually satisfying.

Pickup is not man dominating a woman and justifying killing her if she rejects. 

Your rejection is not a woman's fault. It's your lack and her right. If you didn't match her requirements and fantasies, she is not obligated to give you shit. 

If you can't attract a woman, you can always complain about it, you could want some pity fuck, you could express frustration. 

But frustration should never be channeled into crime. 

If a man is that frustrated enough to kill, then he needs to stop being a brat and grow up and learn to deal with reality

This is a very naive and idealistic perspective for the actual world.

In reality, frustration can result in many negative consequences. And if you don't re-direct it consciously into a positive trajectory, it will take the wrong turn and become criminal. That's not justification. That's reality, and we're witnessing a nasty example of that in India as you stated.

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

This is a very naive and idealistic perspective for the actual world.

In reality, frustration can result in many negative consequences. And if you don't re-direct it consciously into a positive trajectory, it will take the wrong turn and become criminal. That's not justification. That's reality, and we're witnessing a nasty example of that in India as you stated.

It's because of an entitled mindset. Not because of frustration. 

Men can get sex with prostitutes or they have porn. 

Stop justifying violence. 

 

[Emerald]

31 minutes ago, lmfao said:

From my POV (and many others), the whole sexual game is something with winning and losing and rewards. Not even saying or justifying that POV as truthful or accurate, just saying the POV I have or lots of people have in general. Which you're aware of. 

Let's not forget about the construct/truth of Dominance Hierarchies that our founding father Jordan Peterson entirely invented alone. By default we view and see the world as dominance/social hierarchies, resources. So this is a larger thing you're looking at "transcending". Running on energy fields of neediness, scarcity, etc... First step is always honesty rather than false suppression

Being at the bottom of a dominance/social hierarchy in any manner can be brutal, you get no mates

Well, let's take this imaginary projection of the reward/punishment dichotomy into an analogy that reflects the magical thinking within Purple societies. 

Let's say that a particular Purple society collectively believes that there is a creature that comes and steals people's breaths while they sleep. And they make all kinds of accommodations as a society to catch this creature that steals people's breath and kills them.

Little do they realize that it's actually the fact that they're sleeping too close to the fire. And that the fire is eating up their oxygen while they're sleeping... causing them to suffocate. So, when they try to catch the creature and fail, it is because they have a worldview that isn't rooted in the truth of how reality actually is.

So, projecting the falsehood onto the situation is an ineffective mental tool for being able to sus out the truth of the situation, that would save lives in this case.

Now, your idea is that projecting dominance hierarchies onto things is helpful.

And perhaps, projecting this falsehood onto the reality could have some benefits in certain contexts. So, back to our analogy.. if we take our breath-stealing monster example, and it actually leads people to making the decision to sleep further away from the fire because the breath-stealing monster lives in the fire in the mythology. It could suffice as an effective tool, even if it isn't reflective of the truth.

But, let's say that this projection onto reality of the breath stealing monster is too simple to account for the complexities of the problem. So, maybe the breath-stealing monster mythos can help you sleep away from the fire. But perhaps there are other elements to the truth of the situation that the breath-stealing monster projection doesn't account for. And so, the people make a ton of mistakes based upon their mythological understanding of the situation. 

But if they know that fire is sustained upon oxygen and that they need oxygen to breath, then understanding things in actuality is the best way to account for the dangers and to address the situation at its roots.

So, there can be many issues that arise when people believe that their projection isn't just a tool for practical understanding but believe that it's an existential truth. 

And so far, what I've seen is that men projecting these ideas of winning/losing and punishment/reward over the top of female sexuality and other things, often just gives them a chip on their shoulder and a sharp blow to their self-esteem. And it keeps them away from creator thinking and in the perspective of competing to one-up other men on the imaginary hierarchy. So, this projection can and does seriously backfire on men, endowing them with incorrect and disempowering world-views around their own self-worth and their dating prospects.

I would guess that a man who doesn't get hung up on dominance hierarchies and where he falls within them, will actually end up with more social status than if he didn't project reality onto these hierarchies.

It's much more liberating and effective to see the truth underneath the projection. That way, you can play whatever game needs to be played for your own survival and enjoyment, without feeling like you're being punished or marked by some woman's feelings that exist completely independently of the hierarchy being projected upon it.

So, it would be socially advantageous to understand that dominance hierarchies aren't inherently real and will change between social situations. And to use them as a tool if you want to... or don't.

But there is a need to liberate one's self of the belief in the inherent reality of dominance hierarchies based upon male worth and seeing women as the sole arbiters of the judgment of that worth. 

Liberating one's self of the fairy tale will help you be more socially successful... including with women. And women will lose the projection of this monumental amount of power that this fairy tale gives us over men... which we don't actually possess or benefit from. 

Basically, it's better to see what's actually true than what is collectively projected. 

Because, even though collective projection of dominance hierarchies or the breath-stealing monster CAN be helpful. It is often a double edged sword.

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Emerald

[Gesundheit]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Men can get sex with prostitutes or they have porn.

Porn and prostitution are not the same thing as intimacy. The missing thing here is intimacy, not ejaculation.

Men have emotions, and they get hurt. We're human beings after all. Unless you're already enlightened, you will be hurt as a human, and there's no other way around that. That's why the idealistic approach is not useful here, because it pretends as if men don't have emotions or that they should already be enlightened masters. But obviously, that's a huge underestimation of reality, cuz less than 1% become enlightened. And in fact, the path towards emotional mastery and enlightenment sometimes intersects with going through shitloads of rejections. It's unreasonable and unrealistic to expect men to be already the most perfect versions of themselves. The solution is simply to acknowledge the imperfection and then lead it towards perfection through proper education, which is exactly what pick-up is for.

[knakoo]

59 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

A human being deserves to have sex if he is a human being.

How would that work ? Free prostitution service for everyone ? Like one fuck a month guaranteed and paid by the government ? haha

[Gesundheit]

Just now, knakoo said:

How would that work?

Pick-up.

[lmfao]

37 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Well, let's take this imaginary projection of the reward/punishment dichotomy into an analogy that reflects the magical thinking within Purple societies. 

Let's say that a particular Purple society collectively believes that there is a creature that comes and steals people's breaths while they sleep. And they make all kinds of accommodations as a society to catch this creature that steals people's breath and kills them.

Little do they realize that it's actually the fact that they're sleeping too close to the fire. And that the fire is eating up their oxygen while they're sleeping... causing them to suffocate. So, when they try to catch the creature and fail, it is because they have a worldview that isn't rooted in the truth of how reality actually is.

So, projecting the falsehood onto the situation is an ineffective mental tool for being able to sus out the truth of the situation, that would save lives in this case.

Now, your idea is that projecting dominance hierarchies onto things is helpful.

And perhaps, projecting this falsehood onto the reality could have some benefits in certain contexts. So, back to our analogy.. if we take our breath-stealing monster example, and it actually leads people to making the decision to sleep further away from the fire because the breath-stealing monster lives in the fire in the mythology. It could suffice as an effective tool, even if it isn't reflective of the truth.

But, let's say that this projection onto reality of the breath stealing monster is too simple to account for the complexities of the problem. So, maybe the breath-stealing monster mythos can help you sleep away from the fire. But perhaps there are other elements to the truth of the situation that the breath-stealing monster projection doesn't account for. And so, the people make a ton of mistakes based upon their mythological understanding of the situation. 

But if they know that fire is sustained upon oxygen and that they need oxygen to breath, then understanding things in actuality is the best way to account for the dangers and to address the situation at its roots.

So, there can be many issues that arise when people believe that their projection isn't just a tool for practical understanding but believe that it's an existential truth. 

And so far, what I've seen is that men projecting these ideas of winning/losing and punishment/reward over the top of female sexuality and other things, often just gives them a chip on their shoulder and a sharp blow to their self-esteem. And it keeps them away from creator thinking and in the perspective of competing to one-up other men on the imaginary hierarchy. So, this projection can and does seriously backfire on men, endowing them with incorrect and disempowering world-views around their own self-worth and their dating prospects.

I would guess that a man who doesn't get hung up on dominance hierarchies and where he falls within them, will actually end up with more social status than if he didn't project reality onto these hierarchies.

It's much more liberating and effective to see the truth underneath the projection. That way, you can play whatever game needs to be played for your own survival and enjoyment, without feeling like you're being punished or marked by some woman's feelings that exist completely independently of the hierarchy being projected upon it.

So, it would be socially advantageous to understand that dominance hierarchies aren't inherently real and will change between social situations. And to use them as a tool if you want to... or don't.

But there is a need to liberate one's self of the belief in the inherent reality of dominance hierarchies based upon male worth and seeing women as the sole arbiters of the judgment of that worth. 

Liberating one's self of the fairy tale will help you be more socially successful... including with women. And women will lose the projection of this monumental amount of power that this fairy tale gives us over men... which we don't actually possess or benefit from. 

Basically, it's better to see what's actually true than what is collectively projected. 

Because, even though collective projection of dominance hierarchies or the breath-stealing monster CAN be helpful. It is often a double edged sword.

37 minutes ago, Emerald said:

 

Wow that's all pretty factual tbh. Why have an incorrect or false world view over truth. Liberating yourself from what's collectively projected. 

Ofc if you can't get "liberation" and can't happen easily, I don't believe in faking saintliness. But go after what's false regardless, etc 

37 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Now, your idea is that projecting dominance hierarchies onto things is helpful.

The truth is, I'm more so unsure or conflicted. Because of what level and place my psyche and consciousness is. A tension between old/neurosis and new. Contradictions, but not in a good or "resolved" way. Dissociations, shadows, etc

I oscillate a lot between this sort of selflessness "love" that you get in "A Course in Miracles", and between being cold/ruthless and ambitious as articulated in a book like "Thick Face Black Heart". Because I don't know who I am

--

I have a needy or scarcity mindset "from" ("from" projects blame away to something external as being causal, so "associated" is better) from being an outcast and perceiving myself as bottom of dominance/social hierarchy, which I was/am. Its a very deep insecurity 

Edited February 16, 2021 by lmfao

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

From reading your responses, I'm thinking that you missed the point of the Teal Swan video. 

She states that if you put a kind man with all the masculine/dominant qualities and an asshole with all the masculine/dominant qualities next to one another, that the kind man would be preferred.

And if you could draw a square circle, that would be nice too.

Quote

There is no link between being an asshole and increased masculinity. The only difference is that assholes won't second-guess themselves or consider others.

There is a huge link.

It's much easier to be masculine when you are a narcissist and sociopath. Confidence and assertiveness are harder when you have high empathy for people.

Being an asshole actually makes a guy more attractive to women. Women reward sociopathic behavior in men because they need to for survival.

Not second-guessing yourself and considering others is precisely what women reward. You may logically deny it, but in practice you will reward it by opening your legs for it.

Being attracted to the masculine is like being attracted to a very sharp knife. The sharper you want it, the more likely it is to cut you. And the reason you're attracted to it in the first place is because a sharp knife is good at slitting throats. Just don't he surprised when it turns on you. What comes around goes around.

Quote

Like, let's take someone like Ben Shapiro... very un-masculine and very much an asshole. Then, take someone like Dwayne Johnson... very masculine and seemingly very kind. 

Bad example since it conflates political positions you disagree with, with assholishness.

I''d bet Ben is a nice guy in nonpolitical situtations.

And Dwayne was a freaking wrestler, punching dudes in the face.

What women really want is a sharp knife that will cut others but not her. And mathematicians want square circles. And men want big tits that will never sag.

[Axiomatic]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And if you could draw a square circle, that would be nice too.

There is a huge link.

It's much easier to be masculine when you are a narcissist and sociopath. Confidence and assertiveness are harder when you have high empathy for people.

Being an asshole actually makes a guy more attractive to women. Women reward sociopathic behavior in men because they need to for survival.

Not second-guessing yourself and considering others is precisely what women reward. You may logically deny it, but in practice you will reward it by opening your legs for it.

Being attracted to the masculine is like being attracted to a very sharp knife. The sharper you want it, the more likely it is to cut you. And the reason you're attracted to it in the first place is because a sharp knife is good at slitting throats. Just don't he surprised when it turns on you. What comes around goes around.

Bad example since it conflates political positions you disagree with, with assholishness.

I''d bet Ben is a nice guy in nonpolitical situtations.

And Dwayne was a freaking wrestler, punching dudes in the face.

What women really want is a sharp knife that will cut others but not her. And mathematicians want square circles. And men want big tits that will never sag.

I think things such as this are why women are in a major process of trying to figure out why they cannot be happy AND get what they want. Were in a major process of condemning masculinity (for better or worse) and keeping a tight leash on men who are potentially dangerous, yet thats exactly what women want, and they can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that they want it.

 

I've honestly never seen something so obvious that nearly all women seem to deny to one degree or another. It is probably the biggest blind spot that all women have because I have never really met a woman who is straight up honest about this fact. 

 

Yet another reason why a man should never listen to a woman for dating advice

Edited February 16, 2021 by Axiomatic

[Leo Gura]

I bet ya a thousand dollars that when Teal Swan opens her legs, it's for a giant asshole