Who Is Enlightened?

[The Monk]

Hi guys, do you know any people who are enlightened 2016, who I can listen to? And what are the characteristics of enlightened people?

[Azrael]

 

[Prabhaker]

On 10/8/2016 at 0:04 AM, Aamir King said:

what are the characteristics of enlightened people?

It depends, it depends on the individual. There cannot be any dogmatic statement about it because each individual is so unique. When Basho becomes enlightened he starts singing poetry, poems; Buddha has never done that. When Krishna becomes enlightened he starts dancing, singing; Mahavir has never done that. When Mahavir becomes enlightened he keeps silence for many years, remains absolutely silent, not a ripple is allowed; Meera has not done that. When she becomes enlightened, she dances from village to village, she sings the glory of God. It is very difficult to make a dogmatic statement.

Enlightenment is always new, fresh - it is not an imitation, it is not a carbon-copy; it is always original. 

An enlightened person, if allowed to enter into you, will give you self-evident proofs. But those are not intellectual proofs; they are not arguments of mind. He argues with his whole being. His argument is that of his presence - so allow his presence and don't carry any criterion. If you are a Jain you will miss Buddha; if you are a Jain you will miss Krishna; if you are a Jain you will miss Christ. If you are a Christian you will miss Mahavir. You will carry an idea, a fixed pattern. 

Don't ask that he should be 'like this'; just be with him. Just sit with him in silence. be open to him. If he has become enlightened, suddenly you will see a throb within you that you have never known before: your energy will start rising. You will see a great silence arising in you, and a great bliss, drop by drop, reaching your innermost core of being. 

Just be in his presence. If he has arrived, you will feel a sudden pull in your being -- you are being pulled towards some unknown center. And you will feel tremendous beauty, bliss. blessings showering on you. That will be the only criterion; but for that you have to be ready.

 

[Capethaz]

@Aamir King Man, there are 4 stages of Enlightenment: Stream-Entry, Sakadagami, Anagami and the last one: Arahant, a person that is totally free from suffering. If you are defining Enlightenment as Stream-Entry, I know many people that are in this stage, and I have no doubt that is doable by anyone who puts time and energy in it. 
 

 

 

 

 

[LBJ23]

nobody can be enlightened because there is no one. enlightment is an illusion. no one can reach enlightment but the I will try it and has no chance. enlightment is the death of the person. the person are apparently enlightened but not in reality. it´s a story and not the truth. 

[ajasatya]

4 hours ago, LBJ23 said:

nobody can be enlightened because there is no one. enlightment is an illusion. no one can reach enlightment but the I will try it and has no chance. enlightment is the death of the person. the person are apparently enlightened but not in reality. it´s a story and not the truth. 

this is false.

[cetus]

Here we go again. Self or No self?

[abrakamowse]

Anatta

[abrakamowse]

"The six orthodox schools of Hinduism believe that there is Ātman (Soul, Self) in every being, a major point of difference with Buddhism, which does not believe that there is either soul or self." (Wikipedia)

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

The six orthodox schools of Hinduism believe that there is Ātman (Soul, Self) in every being, a major point of difference with Buddhism, which does not believe that there is either soul or self.

Hindus believe in God and the soul. Jainas don't believe in God at all but only in the soul. And Buddhists don't believe in the soul or God either. But about reincarnation all three agree — even Buddhists agree, who don't believe in the soul. A very strange thing…then who reincarnates?

It is easy to understand that there is a soul and when you die the body is left on the earth and the soul enters into another body, into another womb; it is a simple, logical, mathematical thing. But Buddha says there is no soul but only a continuum.

It is like when you kindle a candle in the evening and in the morning when you are blowing it out a question can be asked of you: Are you blowing out the same light that you started in the evening? No, it is not the same light, and yet a continuity is there.

In the night when you lit the candle… that flame is no more there, that flame is continuously disappearing; it is being replaced by another flame. The replacement is so quick that you can't see the gaps.

Buddha says that just as the candle flame is not the same — it is changing constantly, although in another sense it is the same because it is the same continuum — exactly like that, there is no soul entity in you like a thing but one like a flame. It is continuously changing, it is a river.  He has come closest to the truth; at least in his expression he is the most profound.

This continuum comes to an end when you become a buddha. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Prabhaker

[ajasatya]

@Prabhaker a better word would be "rebirth" instead of "reincarnation".

also, it's impossible to get out of the rebirth cycle, because there's nobody to get out of it.

reality has an urge to experience what we call "being" and we're consequences of it...

even siddhartha gautama himself said that he was not leaving reality. you can check this out on the Lotus Sutra, chapter 16:

Since I attained Buddhahood
the number of kalpas that have passed
is an immeasurable hundreds, thousands, ten thousands,
millions, trillions, asamkhyas.
Constantly I have preached the Law, teaching, converting
countless millions of living beings,
causing them to enter the Buddha way,
all this for immeasurable kalpas.
In order to save living beings,
as an expedient means I appear to enter nirvana
but in truth I do not pass into extinction.
I am always here preaching the Law.
I am always here,
but through my transcendental powers
I make it so that living beings in their befuddlement
do not see me even when close by.

[Prabhaker]

15 minutes ago, iago iriarte arhatha said:

In order to save living beings,
as an expedient means I appear to enter nirvana
but in truth I do not pass into extinction.

Nirvāṇa literally means "blown out", as in a candle. A man of that stature, a being who has reached to the ultimate experience of existence cannot come back; it is just not possible in the very nature of things. He cannot take another form, another body. He cannot be born again in the womb of a mother; he cannot become again flesh and bones. His astral body can use somebody as vehicle.

Gautam Buddha had promised that after twenty-five centuries he would be coming as Maitreya. Out of compassion he saved his astral body, to help others.

 J. Krishnamurti was prepared by a great theosophical movement,  in every possible way to become a vehicle of Gautam Buddha. Certainly a few of the theosophical movement were aware of the wandering astral body of the Buddha, and the time was ripe. He refused to surrender, and he told , "I am not going to be the vehicle of Maitreya Buddha."

Thus a great venture failed, Maitreya's astral body is still wandering.

[ajasatya]

@Prabhaker i don't experience astral things except for this present moment, seeing, touching, feeling, thinking etc.

it's very strange to put it in words, because there's no "he" who can come back nor even go away. there's just buddha nature assuming forms, reality being conscious of itself. in reality, there's no ego-identity that dies nor is born. ego-identity is an illusion, even though it's needed to keep us alive.

the historical buddha never spoke of an "i" that dies and comes back. the buddha only spoke of the dhamma, which is the path to attain nirvana.

and nirvana is not a mystical thing. "nir" means "no". "vana" means "fire", "passion". so nirvana means no pride, no greed, no hatred, no attachment, no sexual desire, no narcissism etc. i have attained nirvana and it's not something too special. it just makes your life easier. absolute freedom and happiness.

be careful with what people put in buddha's mouth. if you really want to know his teachings, go for the suttas.

if you want to know his deepest teachings about the illusion of ego-identities, read the diamond sutta.

there's nowhere to go. there's nowhere we came from. we're simply here and that's how reality is. that's how consciousness feels.

right now, as you read this, reality is reading its own words about itself.

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, iago iriarte arhatha said:

historical buddha never spoke of an "i" that dies and comes back ...........  there's no ego-identity that dies nor is born

Agreed, 

The Saṃsāra doctrine of Buddhism asserts that while beings undergo endless cycles of rebirth, there is no changeless soul that transmigrates from one lifetime to another - a view that distinguishes its Saṃsāra doctrine from that in Hinduism and Jainism.This no-soul (no-self) doctrine is called the Anatta or Anatman in Buddhist texts.

The early Buddhist texts suggest that Buddha faced a difficulty in explaining what is reborn and how rebirth occurs, after he innovated the concept that there is "no self" (Anatta). Later Buddhist scholars, such as the mid-1st millennium CE Pali scholarBuddhaghosa, suggested that the lack of a self or soul does not mean lack of continuity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra_(Buddhism)

What it is that continues in rebirth ? or there is no rebirth in Buddhism ?

[ajasatya]

6 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

What it is that continues in rebirth ? or there is no rebirth in Buddhism ?

reality (i like this word because it's well known here in the actualized.org community) continues assuming conscious forms (me, you, frogs, whales, beings from other areas of the universe etc) to explore itself. why this happens? well, it could not happen. if this did not happen, there'd be no experience to be experienced nor "experiencer" to experience anything. it might have been that way for a while. we can't know. but this phenomena DOES happen and now there are sentient beings.

kamma continues like a wave traveling through reality. but a karmic wave is not infinite, of course. for instance:

if i become a bad parent, my son will grow up with a wounded heart and it's very likely that he becomes a bad parent too. his son will suffer the consequences of my acts. but "i", "my son" and "his son" are just names. there's just reality experiencing this kamma continuity through these sentient beings we gave names. when a sentient being dies, it dies completely but his kamma continues. "good" or "bad" kamma are just labels because the sensations that the consequences of that kamma are pleasant/unpleasant. in this case, the sentient beings of this small story experience lack of love, which feels unpleasant for human beings. so we call it "bad" kamma. as time passes by, that kammic wave tends to fade out.

 

[Dodo]

My heart is enlightened 

[Thomas Razzeto]

@The Monk Hi. I won't go into the question about who I think is enlightened but I will offer this essay: What Is Enlightenment? http://infinitelymystical.com/essays/what-is-enlightenment.html. Also, you mentioned listening, rather than reading. My mentor is Timothy Conway and I have made over 75 hours worth of audio recordings of some of his satsangs, all available for free here: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B63GUZPUWajeUjdyZXgxa3hKV2s. You may enjoy his website: http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/ or my website: http://infinitelymystical.com/

Perhaps this might be a good place to start, my 3-page essay: The Loving Heart of Enlightenment. This is an overview of spiritual awakening in simple, clear English: http://infinitelymystical.com/essays/the-loving-heart-of-enlightenment.html

[Joseph Maynor]

Many people on here are enlightened.  It took me 3 weeks to notice this.  And I've been on here every day during this 3 week period.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[krazzer]

@Joseph Maynor Yeah I have the same perception, a few weeks ago I believed enlightenment was extremely rare. Now they seem to be all over the place.

[krazzer]

On 28-6-2017 at 11:51 PM, Thomas Razzeto said:

@The Monk Hi. I won't go into the question about who I think is enlightened but I will offer this essay: What Is Enlightenment? http://infinitelymystical.com/essays/what-is-enlightenment.html.

Thanks for sharing, I really like the actor/character metaphor!