Two opposing currents in Self Actualization

[Zigzag Idiot]

Ken Wilber has summarized this as how one has to develop a healthy functioning ego and then transcend it.

Is there a need for more conversations around this idea here on the forum.

Developing self esteem followed by at some point burning away self importance. 
It’s in the Teachings of don Juan Matus.  To go in search of a petty tyrant. Someone who has no empathy and will be relentless in pushing every bottom they can find.  Arnold Keyserlings interpretation of this is that mathematically there are only so many ways you can be offended so the sooner all of them have been experienced and then processed, the sooner one will reach a full Self Realization.

At what point do we give up complaining about our victimhood  but instead thank our tormentors for giving us the opportunity to work on ourselves,,, and practice forgiveness,,,?

[mandyjw]

I don't think they actually oppose themselves. Transcendence is so completely radical and yet so incredibly subtle and mundanely noneventful at the same time. You are a creative component of the Universe but when we aren't in tune with this, we suffer when we feel that separation in a destructive negative light.

[fridjonk]

If you actually go through the actualized channel, starting from let's say 2014. You'll notice the trend of how what topics Leo covers as time goes on. That's why actualized is such a diamond in the rough. It's a real-life example of a multiple-year journey that covers everything from self-esteem to emotional control to enlightenment. 

[Zigzag Idiot]

19 hours ago, mandyjw said:

I don't think they actually oppose themselves. Transcendence is so completely radical and yet so incredibly subtle and mundanely noneventful at the same time. You are a creative component of the Universe but when we aren't in tune with this, we suffer when we feel that separation in a destructive negative light.

-  “Run from what's comfortable. Forget safety. Live where you fear to live. Destroy your reputation. Be notorious. I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now on I'll be mad.”~ Rumi

@mandyjw Your Rumi quote reminds me though of how we continually run head-on into our own fracturedness. Not meaning to single you out and project this onto you but maintain this applies to everyone. The need for integration definitely applies to me. Isn't this fracturedness  the basis for the need to integrate and one of the first things encountered by anyone who begins the path of self actualization? Some more than others but definitely a component of the work towards accomplishing Individuation, a core component of Actualization.

To go with the flow or to transcend and include,,,,, I'm all for,,, But how can it be denied that we have don't have numerous  contradictory elements  within us in both our animal instincts and also in our childhood conditioning?

Mechanical expression of negativity,,,, Isn't this also a universal issue to work on among all who walk the path?

I say all this holding myself as the poster child of fragmentedness but maintain it's universal among all who walk the path of awakening. 

Is there anyone here on this forum who can claim this doesn't apply to them to some degree? 

@mandyjw Correct me please if I've badly misinterpreted what you've written or wrongly changed your intended frame of reference,,,,

 

@fridjonk I accidentally hit your name button and android doesn't let me erase name tags. I appreciate your input though.

[mandyjw]

2 hours ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

To go with the flow or to transcend and include,,,,, I'm all for,,, But how can it be denied that we have don't have numerous  contradictory elements  within us in both our animal instincts and also in our childhood conditioning?

Part of self actualization and enlightenment is learning to use the tool of the mind (the tool of separating and connecting again) in a constructive manner. We do have contradictory elements, we do have flaws. When we use the mind constructively, we see things that we desire to change, like a painter who is looking at their painting and sees a tree in the horizon that looks off. The constructive mind goes right to coming up with a solution to changing it. The destructive mind says "this painting is trash", walks away, leaves it the same and doesn't paint again. Taping into the constructive mind means tapping into endless creativity, and endless power to change things, it also means fully appreciating the process. This is self love. The counterintuitive way to change anything about yourself is to have complete self love, which means the disappearance of the borders of "you" and the sense of failing at something. There is no failure, no rules, but in the process of creating, we see a lot that we'd like to change. 

For example, If I yell at my kids a lot and I'm guilting myself for losing my temper and in turn guilting them, it is the same vicious cycle of destructive separation, wrong use of the mind, ie, suffering. If I instead use my mind creatively to focus on things that I would like to do with my kids, and focus on my own self care, and choose to take care of myself and my own mood first, I naturally create an environment where the change I desired to make is automatically the result. 

The key to all of this is to not have a self concept, and in the flow of creativity or appreciation, you naturally don't. We cannot think ourselves, we cannot judge ourselves. When we judge ourselves and find ourselves lacking, it feels bad because that's not how Source or the greater creation, and creating power we really are, sees us. Wrong use of mind. 

I suspect that you're using beliefs in animal instincts and childhood conditioning, in order to keep in place a habit of self-judgment. I do and have done, the same thing. It becomes especially painful to live with when you grew up in a repressed judgmental culture. We internalize the judegment and turn it into self judgement. No one told us we didn't have to do that. No one told us that the reason shame and self-judgement feels awful is because that's not what we're here to create. No one told us that there's no real "us" outside of the concept of judgement and its assumed subject that could actually ever be held responsible. When you pay attention to the guidance of feeling, you're for the first time, finally free to create, which is the only real force of change that there is. 

2 hours ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

I say all this holding myself as the poster child of fragmentedness but maintain it's universal among all who walk the path of awakening. 

You aren't the poster child that you think you are, you're the childlike wonder-filled artist creating the poster. It's a work in progress, and it's already a masterpiece. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by mandyjw

[Zigzag Idiot]

7 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Part of self actualization and enlightenment is learning to use the tool of the mind (the tool of separating and connecting again) in a constructive manner. We do have contradictory elements, we do have flaws. When we use the mind constructively, we see things that we desire to change, like a painter who is looking at their painting and sees a tree in the horizon that looks off. The constructive mind goes right to coming up with a solution to changing it. The destructive mind says "this painting is trash", walks away, leaves it the same and doesn't paint again. Taping into the constructive mind means tapping into endless creativity, and endless power to change things, it also means fully appreciating the process. This is self love. The counterintuitive way to change anything about yourself is to have complete self love, which means the disappearance of the borders of "you" and the sense of failing at something. There is no failure, no rules, but in the process of creating, we see a lot that we'd like to change. 

I agree but this approach doesn't work 100% on all our issues.. and I would argue rhetorically that the shadow or parts of the shadow will remain in place. That's just my opinion though and I could be wrong.

 

  @mandyjw

I do love and appreciate your positive vibes. Thank you so much for that! 

The positive tone of your reply made my day a little brighter and without doubt that's a reality that trump's my opinions and theories. 

[mandyjw]

31 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

I agree but this approach doesn't work 100% on all our issues.. and I would argue rhetorically that the shadow or parts of the shadow will remain in place. That's just my opinion though and I could be wrong.

Ironically it speeds things up and things start flying loose. They get dealt with but only when you're ready. This is how you become ready. Call it "faith" if you like. 

32 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

 

  @mandyjw

I do love and appreciate your positive vibes. Thank you so much for that! 

The positive tone of your reply made my day a little brighter and without doubt that's a reality that trump's my opinions and theories.