Can I use contemplation to gain clarity around why I always end up being rejected?

[benny]

I've been studying Corey Wayne's How to Be a 3% Man to get better with women. I've dabbled in dating/attraction/relationships since my early 20s, and now, at 26, I'm doing a deep dive to finally get the part of my life down. I have grown a lot in this area of my life, going from clueless virgin who couldn't get a date to going on dates consistently most weeks. Feels good.

 

Thing is, I always end up getting rejected. I'd say 95% of the women I date end up leaving within 1-8 weeks. It never lasts. I know I'm doing shit to gradually lower attraction. It's painful as hell when it happens with the ones I like.

 

I want to know if I can contemplate a question such as, Why do I always get rejected? I know that contemplation is typically reserved for "What is" questions, such as, "What is truth?" I'm wondering if I can use the mechanics of contemplation to explore my problems with women.

 

If so, how do I do this? If I understand correctly, I sit with a journal, write the question at the top of the page, admit to myself I don't know the answer, then ponder the question and only use direct experience and concrete examples to arrive at answers. I also do this without being attached to finding the "correct" answer. Is there anything else I'm missing?

Edited February 12, 2021 by benny
Reads better

[Hardkill]

Yeah dating, approaching and talking to women, and dealing with women in relationships can be really painful, especially for a newbie. If you have seen some of the posts I've made on the forum, you see how much I still struggle with the dating game even after years of research and practice with hundreds of women. It's still so frustrating for me. At least I've made some degree of progress with my dating life overall even though I am still not happy with my results. 

It sounds like you have also made some progress with your dating life. Have you lost your V-card yet? Have you ever had a girlfriend that you were in a serious relationship with?

 

 

[benny]

@Hardkill Lost my virginity at 18. Have slept with between 30-50 women. I feel comfortable around women when I'm dating them, and I have no problem seducing them. It's keeping them attracted that's the issue for me. Again, within 1-8 weeks I've lost them. 

 

I've had one girlfriend. We dated for 2 years: 18-20. It was highly dysfunctional and co-dependent. We were both painfully insecure.

 

I've come a long way since then, let me tell you!

Edited February 12, 2021 by benny
More relevant info to add

[Consilience]

Are you doing the majority of the texting/pursuing, are you facilitating sex (it's hang out, have fun, hook up. A lot of dudes think the first two are enough, nope.), are you seeing other women or treating these girls like you're in a relationship, are you doing the majority of the talking when you're on dates, are you good at building sexual tension with kino, eye contact, body language? It's an art form for sure, and incredibly tough if you're not naturally talented.

I would say the biggest, BIGGEST, change you can make it truly not giving a Fuck if a girl stays or leaves. Eradicate your neediness by learning to meet your own needs. You, as you are, are fully able and responsible for meeting your own happiness. Neediness propels women faster than anything. And as Corey Wayne talks about, women naturally pursue a guy they're attracted to. And if they don't, then they aren't attracted enough to you for a successful long term relationship. It's not that you never pursue a girl, but realistically, she should be reaching out the majority of the time and your job is to set dates. You should be reaching out max once a week. Your purpose, fitness, spiritual work, etc., should be taking the majority of your time.

3% man is a great book, horrendous writing imo, but a really solid framework with how to navigate the post seduction phase of attraction. I.e. what to do after you've met the woman, seduced her into that initial phase of attraction, and are starting to build chemistry over the days, weeks, years. 

[Hardkill]

54 minutes ago, benny said:

@Hardkill Lost my virginity at 18. Have slept with between 30-50 women. I feel comfortable around women when I'm dating them, and I have no problem seducing them. It's keeping them attracted that's the issue for me. Again, within 1-8 weeks I've lost them. 

 

I've had one girlfriend. We dated for 2 years: 18-20. It was highly dysfunctional and co-dependent. We were both painfully insecure.

 

I've come a long way since then, let me tell you!

Oh wow! That's a lot! Were any of them prostitutes or escorts? Also, how many of them were hot or at least above average looking?

I think it's also good that you got a decent amount of girlfriend experience. My first and only long-term girlfriend I've ever had broke up with me over a month ago, and I am 33 years old. We were together for almost 3 years. Mine ended up becoming dysfunctional as well after she became increasingly insecure and controlling over me.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, benny said:

We were both painfully insecure.

There sounds like your answer.

If you slept with 50 women, you might want to ask one of them why she left you.

[flowboy]

Seconded. You should be doing market research here, and asking 10-20 subjects why they stopped using your services.

Why are you not doing that?

 

[benny]

12 hours ago, Consilience said:

Are you doing the majority of the texting/pursuing

No. Typically the women I date reach out almost always. The last girl I was hooking up with only made initial contact once - after our first date. Each time after that I was reaching out once a week until she became distant, backed off, gave excuses, etc. The typical "I'm not interested anymore" behaviors.

 

12 hours ago, Consilience said:

are you facilitating sex (it's hang out, have fun, hook up. A lot of dudes think the first two are enough, nope.)

I have no problem going for the kiss, asking women back to my place, and hooking up. Sex isn't the issue for me. Maintaining and increasing attraction is.

 

12 hours ago, Consilience said:

are you seeing other women

Yep.

 

12 hours ago, Consilience said:

treating these girls like you're in a relationship

I don't think so. I mean, I try to make the dates fun and special. I open doors for women and I take their coat when they come over. We cook dinner and stuff. But I'm not taking them to fancy restaurants, dropping huge $$$ on them, talking about love and relationships, showering with compliments, etc.

 

12 hours ago, Consilience said:

are you doing the majority of the talking when you're on dates

Sometimes I violate the 70-80% rule, because I want to chime in and contribute to the conversation. I'd say, on average, it's a 40-60 split in her favor. I figure that 70-80% is a  guideline and that the conversation should flow authentically, and if I have something to say, I want to say it.

 

12 hours ago, Consilience said:

are you good at building sexual tension with kino, eye contact, body language?

Well, I'll start touching women when they start touching me. That said, I don't touch them much until we're in the bedroom. I'll go for the kiss, hold hands on and off, make out intermittently, cuddle on the couch if we're at my place, etc. But I'm not putting my hands on her much outside the bedroom.

 

Of course, once we're in the bedroom, that's a whole other story.

 

With eye contact, I have no problem making eye contact with women, but I'm not into this whole "keep looking her in the eye until she looks away first" thing. After a while we're just staring each other down and it gives me an uncomfortable vibe.

 

Body language? In my chair, I'm usually leaned back and open. Sometimes I move around because of nerves and because I tend to by on the hyperactive side. When I'm standing in front of her, my arms are typically hanging by my sides, center exposed, square with her. Sometimes I put my hands in my pockets.

12 hours ago, Consilience said:

I would say the biggest, BIGGEST, change you can make it truly not giving a Fuck if a girl stays or leaves.

Easy when I can take her or leave her. When I like her it hurts. Maybe I can become 100% indifferent even to the ones I like, but there's also a part of me that tells me I'm a human being and of course I'm going to be more emotional over the girls I really dig.

 

12 hours ago, Consilience said:

Eradicate your neediness by learning to meet your own needs. You, as you are, are fully able and responsible for meeting your own happiness.

I consider myself characteristically happy and optimistic. Stoked on life, and where I'm headed.

 

12 hours ago, Consilience said:

It's not that you never pursue a girl, but realistically, she should be reaching out the majority of the time and your job is to set dates. You should be reaching out max once a week

Got this down. Thing is, they stop reaching out after a while, and then they're gone.

 

There's an issue with my game. Probably multiple issues, and I'm not seeing them. Very frustrating.

12 hours ago, Consilience said:

Your purpose, fitness, spiritual work, etc., should be taking the majority of your time.

On track with my purpose, super clean, whole-foods, vegetarian diet, exercise 4 days per week, meditate daily, drink only water filtered through a Berkey, express gratitude daily, affirmations and visualizing, getting 7-8 hours of sleep, lots of passions, well-traveled, pretty cultured, read lots, investing and building my wealth, independent, well-groomed, etc. Still can't keep a woman interested lol (not that I'm doing those things for women. I do them for me).

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by benny

[benny]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There sounds like your answer.

I was 18-20 at the time. I have done a TON of work on myself since then.

I no longer consider myself an insecure person. That's not to say I don't have insecurities though.

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you slept with 50 women, you might want to ask one of them why she left you

Going to do this now. Will report results.

[benny]

9 hours ago, flowboy said:

Seconded. You should be doing market research here, and asking 10-20 subjects why they stopped using your services.

Why are you not doing that?

I read that women will never give you a straight answer because they're emotional creatures and will therefore sugarcoat and BS because they want to spare your feelings. That said, I took that teaching at face-value. I'm going to field-test it by conducting some market research right now! Will report results.

[flowboy]

@benny Awesome!

Yeah although that is true, if you make it clear to them that you won't get upset with them with whatever they say, and you are really trying to grow, some will definitely give you something to work with.

Then people on here can help you interpret it.

[Bando]

Seems that you've got the attraction building part down now its time to learn how to build relationships, check out relationship videos and books and expand your mind on the topic. The "tricks" you've learned on how to gain attraction doesn't necessarily transverse into a healthy relationships

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, benny said:

I was 18-20 at the time. I have done a TON of work on myself since then.

I no longer consider myself an insecure person. That's not to say I don't have insecurities though.

Going to do this now. Will report results.

So, you never slept with any hookers or call girls? How many of the girls were attractive to you?

[benny]

@Bando This is excellent advice. Any recommended sources?

[benny]

@Hardkill No, I have not.

 

While I don't like ranking women's attractiveness using numbers, for the purposes of this conversation, most of them have been in the 6-7 range, with two or three 8s.

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, benny said:

@Hardkill No, I have not.

 

While I don't like ranking women's attractiveness using numbers, for the purposes of this conversation, most of them have been in the 6-7 range, with two or three 8s.

Damn! Well then you are already way ahead of most guys in the game. You've been able to sleep with a lot more girls than the average guy ever has in his entire lifetime without ever having to pay for sex. Also, it seems like you have gotten with who are at least reasonably attractive you, which also good. You should now work on trying to get with 9s and 10s.