Who Were The MAGA Rioters?

[Preety_India]

18 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

And part of the reason she is the only one suffering, internalizing it and isolating it because much of society tells her "you are deciding to have PTSD". . . 

Spot on. 

I was told two things whenever I brought up my past trauma. (both of the gaslighting type )

One was that I had "decided" to have trauma.  

The second that I'm having a "victim mindset ". 

Both of which are untrue.  

Btw, being a colored woman myself, it's much harder to be taken seriously by society. My problems aren't big or important or valid enough since I'm a "woman of color. " i've no idea how many times this rhetoric keeps repeating. 

In my mind I often scream "please take people of color seriously. "

The level of "ignore " and "indifference" is astonishing. 

 

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

Whoa. . . right out of the gate, you are giving A LOT of decisive power to an "I". Could this "I" also decide to decrease production of insulin in it's pancreas?

Ok, so yeah, it's insensitive wording, but since you don't have male authority figure trauma, and you're the one I'm speaking with here, you'll forgive me, right?  

I have the power to believe my thoughts and the power to choose a thought that feels better or is more empowering. Total empowerment is also total surrender. It hurts to keep thinking about a subject that limits me. It feels amazing to own my own expansion and think creatively, in ways I've never thought before. My dad used to get drunk and verbally abuse me, and try to control the most ridiculous aspects of my life. We have an amazing relationship now. That would not be possible if I kept on thinking "my dad is an alcoholic and I've suffered A LOT for it." Have I forgotten? No. Have I learned not to make myself a target for it by carefully choosing my focus? Yes. Do I think it was my fault that it happened at the time when I did not know this? No. There's a difference between avoiding, blocking out and choosing a better perspective that enables healing. If your identity becomes that of someone who has a broken leg, when the cast comes off, you'll feel as if you've lost something, even though in reality, you've gained your freedom.  

Yes, I can decrease production of insulin in its pancreas, and "I" can discover a way to treat it. 

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

If we allow the neuroscience piece of the puzzle, it's not as simple as "just decide not to have PTSD". That would be like telling someone with schizophrenia "just decide not to hallucinate". Or me telling you to "Just decide not to see colors".  It's not that simple.

Of course. If you tell me not to do something, you just planted the thought in my mind AND the desire to do it. It's pink elephants up the yin-yang. What I CAN do, with my astonishing amazing, inherent power of Love and Awareness that I am, is pick a thought that feels better. On a completely different subject, or I can start feeling amazing and come back to this subject that currently feels crappy to think about and see it in a whole new light. And that is how trauma is released. 

 

You realize that everything you're arguing here for is to maintain identification with body, and essentially the maintenance of your own psychological suffering. You've got scientific reasons. Brains. You've got gender reasons, "I'm a man and you're a woman, woo hoo, how exciting, all the problems we'll cause each other!" You've got color of your skin issues, "Goddamnit, there's a brown crayon for black skin, but not an appropriate color for white skin in the 16 color box, I totally just thought of this, but I'm pretty sure my self esteem issues stemmed from this when I was a child, I think someone did that on PURPOSE, and I'm WRITING AN ANGRY LETTER TO CRAYOLA RIGHT FUCKING NOW." I really don't mean to belittle or ignore racism, but the truth is, when it happens you often don't actually know what someone's intentions or reasoning is. If you're willing and open-minded to investigate far enough, you realize either A. it was unintentional or B. It was born out of the person's own suffering and past abuse or their ignorance, which is none other than the fact that they never had the gift of someone to teach them better. If we're too quick to jump on the racism or sexism or whateverism blame bandwagon, we actually really, really hurt the very real cause we're fighting for. 

This isn't about ignoring the problem. This is about clarifying and having the focus to implement the most effective way to address it. 

You've got, "other people are suffering and I care about them, ie empathy" reasons. In your direct experience, you are thinking a thought of them suffering (your own thought) and suffering for them. You cannot get sick enough or suffer enough for someone to make them well. Why not think of them as well? Question, do you actually enjoy the direct experience of love and loving people as they are, or do you prefer to think of yourself as an empathetic person?

If you believe that you're a body, you are susceptible to all kinds of judgments, pretty ugly, strong weak, young old, dead, alive. It's a lose lose situation. 

The thing I don't get is how we so readily separate the "enlightenment" perspective from the "science and politics and REAL WORLD OUT THERE" perspective. You don't actually get to do that. This is really fucking radical. There's no real problem of gaslighting or avoiding or forgetting. That's all just excuses to continue identifying. Take the plunge. Nothing is lost, no one is dismissed, no one is left behind. Everything to discover. 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by mandyjw

[mandyjw]

@Preety_India What do you actually want? Do you want to feel better and feel empowered? Or do you want to continue to feel ignored, insignificant and unappreciated? The power is yours. And trust me, all the other stuff you want to see actually happen in society, the equality, all of it, will happen all the same. Faster even. But why do you want those things, this real change and validation in the first place? Only because you want to feel better and feel empowered. 

There's only now honey.

It's yours. It's your birthright. It's who you REALLY are. Take it. 

[Preety_India]

@mandyjw  I understand that I should  and can feel empowered in the moment. 

However that being said, such a stance should not subvert the need to have a conversation and consequent social change. 

It's like masking a social issue. 

And who gets to decide what's empowered and what's not. 

Telling someone that they need to feel empowered is directly implying that they are  disempowered. But how can that be decided?

What if the person finds empowerment in letting out, creating awareness about their struggles and fighting for social change?

Fighting against a disempowering status quo needs bravery and courage and this entails empowerment as well  

For me, black people who fought racism during civil rights in the 60s are the most empowered people because they didn't simply sit and think "I need to feel empowered" but they gave a voice to their struggled,  fought against white people's hegemony and got for themselves the rights that they have today. 

The whole idea that empowerment is all about feeling goody goody all the time is toxic positivity. 

Sometimes letting out rage and anger and not letting it fester inside, being true to oneself, not caring for others judgement, standing up for one's rights and fighting for equality is also a huge part of empowerment even though it means going through conflicting stressful emotions and dealing with sorrow for sometime or feeling helpless. 

Nothing more empowering than enjoying the fruits of labour of sweet social justice. 

 

 

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

Sometimes letting out rage and anger and not letting it fester inside, being true to oneself, not caring for others judgement, standing up for one's rights and fighting for equality is also a huge part of empowerment even though it means going through conflicting stressful emotions and dealing with sorrow for sometime or feeling helpless. 

Of course, you do often go through stages of blame and anger and blaming others, it's ok, but don't get stuck there. When your conscious intention is to feel better, you're much less likely to get stuck. 

But if you're truly not caring about other's judgement then you don't let what you perceive as "toxic positivity" get you down either. 

YOU and only YOU know by how you feel at any given moment. No one gets to decide what empowerment is for you. If something others find empowering is disempowering for you then don't do it. Don't shame other women (or minorities, or, etc) who do. If something is empowering for you do it, don't let others shame you and make you feel it's actually disempowering when it's not. If anger feels better than feeling powerless, be angry. If anger feels worse than hope, feel hope. 

[Preety_India]

Just now, mandyjw said:

but don't get stuck there.

Nobody says that someone is stuck there unless you're making it out to be. 

People are self aware to understand their own miseries. 

 

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Ok, so yeah, it's insensitive wording, but since you don't have male authority figure trauma, and you're the one I'm speaking with here, you'll forgive me, right?  

It depends on the context of how you use the term "I". In my view, you seem to be using it at a personal / human level. There is immense potential in self healing, yet there are certain illnesses / injuries that would be extremely difficult to heal. I don't think it's fair to assume someone can simply heal certain illnesses and injuries by choosing to. 

6 hours ago, mandyjw said:

I have the power to believe my thoughts and the power to choose a thought that feels better or is more empowering. Total empowerment is also total surrender. It hurts to keep thinking about a subject that limits me. It feels amazing to own my own expansion and think creatively, in ways I've never thought before.

One key aspect of severe trauma is that you don't have the power to believe your thoughts. You don't have the power to choose a thought that feels better or is more empowering. I'm talking about severe trauma in which that power is stripped away from you - that is one reason it is so hellish. What you are saying is great in some contexts, yet from my pov you do not understand what severe trauma is actually like. 

Keep in mind that PTSD is a difficult mind-body condition to treat. I think what you propose can be helpful in many cases and perhaps even cure some cases, yet I also think there are serious cases in which it's not so simple. 

As well, I'm not talking about mild traumas most of us face like a hyper-critical parent or dating a narcissist. I'm talking about intense trauma, severe anxiety, panic and psychosis. 

6 hours ago, mandyjw said:

My dad used to get drunk and verbally abuse me, and try to control the most ridiculous aspects of my life. We have an amazing relationship now. That would not be possible if I kept on thinking "my dad is an alcoholic and I've suffered A LOT for it." Have I forgotten? No. Have I learned not to make myself a target for it by carefully choosing my focus? Yes. Do I think it was my fault that it happened at the time when I did not know this? No. There's a difference between avoiding, blocking out and choosing a better perspective that enables healing. If your identity becomes that of someone who has a broken leg, when the cast comes off, you'll feel as if you've lost something, even though in reality, you've gained your freedom.  

That is great and I totally agree. My father was an alcoholic and I experienced both verbal and physical abuse. Similar to how you describe, I introspected my thought stories and let them go. I've also had an amazing relationship with my father for over 20 yrs. I completely support this approach. Yet this isn't what I'm referring to. 

6 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Of course. If you tell me not to do something, you just planted the thought in my mind AND the desire to do it. It's pink elephants up the yin-yang.

 Here, what I'm trying to point to is that an aspect of severe trauma and PTSD is physical. It goes deeper than the illusion of controlling the narrative in one's mind. Ime, one of the most horrific components of severe panic is losing control of that illusory narrative. 

6 hours ago, mandyjw said:

You realize that everything you're arguing here for is to maintain identification with body, and essentially the maintenance of your own psychological suffering. You've got scientific reasons. Brains.

This mindset won't see a holistic view that includes what you are saying. 

My view is that what you are pointing at has value - yet there is a bigger picture. There is the value of the perspective you are offering AND value within scientific perspectives AND intellectual understanding AND direct experience perspectives AND empathic understanding. There is an expansive, inter-connected view that includes what you are saying. 

6 hours ago, mandyjw said:

You've got, "other people are suffering and I care about them, ie empathy" reasons. In your direct experience, you are thinking a thought of them suffering (your own thought) and suffering for them. You cannot get sick enough or suffer enough for someone to make them well. 

This is a construct you are creating. This is not at all what I'm saying. 

6 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Why not think of them as well? 

A creation of a thing called "wellness" is a relative construct. There are many forms of "well" and "not well" we can create. You seem to think that I see people with psychiatric issues as "not well". That would be partially inaccurate.

6 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Question, do you actually enjoy the direct experience of love and loving people as they are, or do you prefer to think of yourself as an empathetic person?

I would say the experience of love and loving people as they are is enjoyable, yet my deeper desires are not to seek feelings of enjoyment. I would rather experience a wide range of human experience. This includes, yet is not limited to, feelings of enjoyment. This is one reason I have experiential understanding of a variety of places that most people would avoid. I'll go there and I'll go deep - sometimes into some extremely disturbing places. By saying "I choose good feelings", one is limiting themself. 

I have approached many doors and knew something deeply profound was on the other side. Yet I didn't know if it would involve  "good" or "bad" feelings. You seem to be saying "don't go through the door if you can't choose for it to be a good feeling". That may be fine for others, yet I don't want to limit myself to a subset of experiences, insights and understanding. At the deeper experiential levels, I don't get to decide what's on the other side of the door. I've got to be willing to surrender that control. I've experienced bliss, love and beauty beyond description as well as tortuous realms of terror and agony. And I paid the price of entry. 

Thinking of myself as an empathic person is unappealing to me. I use the term "empathy" at times as a way to point and communicate to an immaterial essence. The term is used differently by different people. For me, empathy is not an intellectual or self identity thing. For me, empathy is a form of understanding and knowing that does not come from intellectual analysis and concept construction. 

It would be like sitting by a river with a friend and sharing a cool breeze together. Then the friend asks "Do you prefer to think of yourself as a 'breeze-full' person?". From the perspective of the breeze and the essence of sharing the breeze, it is a nonsensical question. 

6 hours ago, mandyjw said:

If you believe that you're a body, you are susceptible to all kinds of judgments, pretty ugly, strong weak, young old, dead, alive. It's a lose lose situation. 

That sounds like generic forms of identification. I'm referring to different phenomena. 

6 hours ago, mandyjw said:

The thing I don't get is how we so readily separate the "enlightenment" perspective from the "science and politics and REAL WORLD OUT THERE" perspective. You don't actually get to do that.

I see things as an integrated, holistic perspective that includes concepts, science, logic, spirituality, direct experience, empathic understanding, energetics and intuition. All of the boundaries between these categories are fuzzy to begin with and dissolve under observation and clarity. They are all inter-related in a whole. The only reason I use them is for convenience and communication. In the world I live, they are flowing together in a larger whole.

In the context of enlightenment of a person / human, awakenings can certainly relieve a lot of mind-body distress - yet awakenings will not magically cure someone of all their neuroses, conditioning and ailments. 

[DrewNows]

@mandyjw good stuff 

 

[mandyjw]

@Forestluv I don't assume that I can know, rate, measure, compare or have the ability to properly categorize or label anyone's experience or trauma. Especially since I can't do it for myself. The way I look at things depends entirely on my own connection with me in the moment. I can and do tell the same story in a multitude of ways. This isn't about telling a story of dismissing trauma. It's about realizing that you're always creating your story new here and now, that it can go in any direction you want it to, but only if you're willing to overlook what you already know to be true. 

[Forestluv]

@mandyjw If I was to create a conference on trauma, anxiety and PTSD I would definitely invite you to be a speaker about your insights into conscious creation of goodness. I would also invite Abraham Hicks for her wisdom of vibrations and resonance. I would invite Dean Radin for his insights into intentionality. And Gabor Mate for his empathic understanding of addiction, trauma and social systems of stigmatization. And Rupert Sheldrake for his model of family constellations and knowledge of social fields of consciousness. Daniel Amen for his expertise of SPECT scans and brain injuries. And a geneticist to integrate environmental inputs, epigenetics and internal physiology. A microbe physiologist to discuss the interplay between the gut microbiome, brain chemistry and emotions. And an EMDR specialist to integrate visualizations, emotions and release. And a Peruvian shaman to open doors into the use of plant medicines. And Dan Brule to show how we can use conscious breathing to modulate our parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems and clear clogged pipes. And a yogi to share insights into Chakra energetics. And a Reiki master. And representatives from Johns Hopkins to discuss their work with psychedelic PTSD therapy. And David Olsen for his groundbreaking work of psychoplastogens and neural plasticity. DJ Savarese, a non-speaking autistic, to share his experience with adapting to dualistic social realities that are foreign to him. Cecilia McGough to share her personal experience with schizophrenia, trauma and recovery through various modalities.  

I see it as an integrated whole, with insights coming from many different sources within One infinite Source. 

[mandyjw]

@Forestluv

[kray]

On 2/13/2021 at 4:35 PM, Hello from Russia said:

Life is full of suffering, Buddha was right. Imagine being one of these MAGA guys and being so lost, holycrap

That's a fact. I genuinely feel bad for a lot of these guys, they don't even know that they are ignorant. I pray that these folk awaken from the delusions that was fed to them by Fox news, QAnon conspiracies, and our former orange idiot