A recontextualization of Desire

[randomwanderer123]

The subtle and the gross are not two, but one. There's nothing wrong with desire or lack of it, just don't over-indulge in one extreme or the other only for the sake of over-indulging.

Quote

Free from desire you see the mystery. Full of desire you see the manifestations.

 

[How to be wise]

@blackchair I’m sorry for offending you. I really didn’t mean it that way.

Please accept my apology.

[randomwanderer123]

Sex leads to miniscule orgasms. There is no desire for physical sex if one has no blockage in his sexual center. One may achieve an unmatched strength of orgasm from nothing sexual if one's sexual center is open enough.

In sex the energy moves downward which causes ejaculation, however there is another form of orgasm where the energy moves upward, not downward, then the whole body becomes briefly energized. This is all publicly known in various religions/spiritual followings that focus on the sexual energy.

Sex these days is also very shallow, typically when a man and a female have proper sex, they connect energetically in a form of sexual union and become one.

Either way all form of desires arise from various blockages, I am not able to do this but I believe one may not sleep and eat, and be fine as long as his energy is open in the centers related to those activities.

Ideally one's energy flow reverses, from state of tension to an open channel, where a permanent state of orgasm is achieved. This is also called sukha, it's not hard to achieve with proper meditation, it's described as a warm feeling of joy present everywhere. The heart isn't the only energy place capable of experiencing joy, if you can experience joy at this moment in your heart, then surely you can radiate this joy everywhere, this is the way to open energy channels.

That's just my own two cents, I am sure Hindu books are more accurate than my descriptions.

Edited February 11, 2021 by randomwanderer123
spelling fix

[blackchair]

8 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@blackchair I’m sorry for offending you. I really didn’t mean it that way.

Please accept my apology.

no, the truth is that you did want to provoke me, and that's ok. that's your right. its on me what am i gonna do with that. with love Marko 

[electroBeam]

30 minutes ago, Nahm said:

The exact same way straight people are born, the exact same way you were born. Sexuality is not a human creation. Humans, are not a human creation. People are born every which way you could possibly think of, and many, many more ways that you wouldn’t think of. Some people are born without genitalia, some people are born with both genitalia, and many people are born with any combination. This makes perfect sense because it’s true, which you could see, if you take five or ten minutes to google and look into it. 

In their defense though, most men are as sound asleep in black & white thinking as you are. This ignore-ance can’t even be called low hanging fruit on the path. This is not even the apples on the ground. You sound like you’re writing from 1940. 

woah! Nahm just got political, love it!

[Mu_]

On 2/10/2021 at 7:30 AM, electroBeam said:

I discovered this insight a while ago and have been using it since. Ever since using this insight, my behavior has changed dramatically, and my approach to life has been radically different.

The bottom line is, the traditional way of looking at desire is wrong. We've misunderstood what desire actually is. Even the buddha.

The traditional way being, we want something, and so we must manifest it to quench our desire. If we want a million dollars, then we must manifest a million dollars to quench that desire.

After we go through personal development, we sort of realize that we are on a hedonic treadmill, and so we become less materialistic and desire less things. Yet even in this state, we still desire stuff. We still desire relationships, keeping our identity, etc.

And so I'd argue that we haven't really nailed this desire thing on the head.

I'd like to introduce a new framing or way of looking at what desire is.

Consider the possibility that desire is not quenched once you manifest the thing the desire is pointing to. Consider the possibility that desire is a signal from God saying you're not doing the right things right now. And when you start doing the right things, you then quench your desire.

I.E. desire is not quenched in the future, its not quenched after manifestation, its quenched from doing the right stuff now.

Whether a desire is quenched, and the extent to which the desire is quenched, is based on how well you align what you're doing with what God wants you to do. In other words, how well you get the choreography of the cosmic play down pat.

The better you get that choreography right, the more quenched the desire is.

And also consider the possibility that the suffering you feel when you notice that your desire is not manifested right now, that suffering has nothing to do with the desire not being manifested right now, its a slap from God saying "silly! Remember how this desire has nothing to do with the result, but with the choreography???"

Every time you feel suffering from a desire, you can remind yourself that thats because you have again confused the signal from the desire as to meaning its about manifesting something when its actually about refocusing your effort on getting the choreography done perfectly right now.

So when you want a million dollars, reframe the desire by asking "what do I feel like doing to get that million of dollars" then contemplate and visualize your way into determining the thing that makes you the most happy. Then DO IT! If you start to feel suffering again, then repeat the steps and find and pick something that feels even better. I guarantee you that the need for the thing to actually be manifested will drop away, just like how the need to have sex drops away after a male orgasm.

When you want a hot chick, reframe the desire by asking "what do I feel like doing to get that chick?" then again contemplate and visualize your way into determining the thing that will make you the most happy. Then DO IT!!!

The cool thing is, its completely result independent, it doesn't matter if the woman rejects you or if you look stupid trying to pick her up, because your satisfaction doesn't come from getting her, it comes from doing the pickup perfectly, aligning how you do the pickup exactly with how God wants you to do the pickup. Like you got the choreography of the cosmic play down pat perfectly. The entire pickup stack will flow like a divine dance. And after the pickup run, you'll feel so satisfied just from doing it the way God wanted you to, that the desire to text her or call her wont even cross your mind. Maybe you're horny as fuck and so you will, but again, you'll be 100% satisfied from the doing then the result.

Interesting theory, maybe its true, maybe not, but I like it somehow.  Part of me wonders if what you've connected within this theory, is just being more connected to what your doing in the moment.  The line of questioning and pursuit that can follow from this theory model is one that brings one closer to walking the path as its own meaning rather then being result oriented.  Being more mindful present in ones actions and not clinging to a result, are said to have similar results (again another theory).  Funny enough they seem like the same theory just said differently or approached with different language and jargon, which I really like and think is a way to teach or reach a broader audience.  I may steal some of this lingo since there are people who just don't like new age lingo or eastern concepts.

[blackchair]

hmmm i have a desire to make it "right" and when its done, i feel much better. 

[electroBeam]

52 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Interesting theory, maybe its true, maybe not, but I like it somehow.  Part of me wonders if what you've connected within this theory, is just being more connected to what your doing in the moment.  The line of questioning and pursuit that can follow from this theory model is one that brings one closer to walking the path as its own meaning rather then being result oriented.  Being more mindful present in ones actions and not clinging to a result, are said to have similar results (again another theory).  Funny enough they seem like the same theory just said differently or approached with different language and jargon, which I really like and think is a way to teach or reach a broader audience.  I may steal some of this lingo since there are people who just don't like new age lingo or eastern concepts.

well for it to be a theory it must be modelling some truth. Which you're suggesting is desire at the moment. But desire is also a theory, and not truth, so to put it in your framework, my theory is just a theory of a theory, in other words, its not meant to be true or not true, its purely meant for relieving suffering and having impact.

[blackchair]

3 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

 its purely meant for relieving suffering and having impact.

this sounds nice

[Gesundheit]

58 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

well for it to be a theory it must be modelling some truth. Which you're suggesting is desire at the moment. But desire is also a theory, and not truth, so to put it in your framework, my theory is just a theory of a theory, in other words, its not meant to be true or not true, its purely meant for relieving suffering and having impact.

Desire is true. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking about it.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Mu_]

9 hours ago, electroBeam said:

well for it to be a theory it must be modelling some truth. Which you're suggesting is desire at the moment. But desire is also a theory, and not truth, so to put it in your framework, my theory is just a theory of a theory, in other words, its not meant to be true or not true, its purely meant for relieving suffering and having impact.

I wasn't saying anything about desire.  My point was, that if you boil down your theory to its core, and what is potentially happening in the execution of it, its the same is being mindful in the moment as you walk the path.  Fulfillment is from the act and connection of walking, not the destination arrived.  And what I liked about this, was that it was just said in a different lingo and thus having the potential to reach a different  range of people.

[Waken]

Just adding my two cents here. I've inquired about numerous things, besides inquiring about the self/person. The really first thing I found that when I looked into desire was that I saw, that which I called desire, were actually just sensations. I sat there after I saw this with my mouth dropped for what felt like to be almost a minute.

Something I discovered later, and what is a more important insight is that there isn't actually anything that causes one to react or do anything. There is the belief amongst people that there is something which causes you to react. Like you see a cake you crave, and think and thus feel that there is something that pushes you to react to it. Or someone says something that you interpreted as you being triggered, and you react to that, because you think and thus feel that there is something in you that causes you to react. Maybe if you look into it, you find that you thought the feelings pushes/urges you to react, although this is obviously not true when you really look at it. There is nothing that causes you to react, you can see this by simply watching your experience. Once you see/know this, your reactivity, your sense of being pulled, can become much less and you become more tranquil. 

The whole structure of reactivity, which is what people might also interpret as being (a part of) desire, was felt in my experience to be just like another layer of 'the self', and one you can just see through. Might be much easier once you know there isn't a self/person, not sure if you can really grok it if you still believe you're a person.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Waken

[integral]

@electroBeam What if we bring everything to the foreground and recontextualize desire as just another thing arising in our peripherals? Maybe we call this a state. Then theres no one desiring, theres just arising.